Some of the other posters may not quite be getting what you're saying here, gpstr, but I do. I was going to post something similar. There's something I enjoy about looking at my mage's stats and thinking, "Wow, he's smart." It's not the higher Magicka value that I find gratifying; it's not even any in-engine results; it's the simple fact of the base stat itself. It influences how I perceive the character and how I play them. Low stats are great, too. I might look at my Barbarian and go, "Wow, she's really dumb," and then take greater pleasure at doing dumb things in the game to reflect that. Stats flesh out a character.

As a role-player, it's just really nice to be able to see a character sharply defined, to give me some guiderails to their behavior as well as their capabilities.

There's something not terribly inspiring about: "So what kind of character did you make?" "Well, he's an elf." "Uh huh, what's he like?" "Um ... male."

I guess I'm really looking forward to getting into Skills and Perks. I have high hopes that the Perks, like Kiralyn2000 suggests, will give us all kinds of nice defining things about our characters.

I'm fine with it, but I want to know how they'll deal with encumbrance and speed.

V: How can I roleplay an agile character?
X: Invest in Agility.
V: Oh, roleplaying is real easy! Thanks.

---

V: How can I roleplay an agile character in Skyrim?
X: I don't know. There are no attributes.
V: Well then, I won't use armor for starters. I will invest in Stamina. I will take all the relevant perks about short swords and daggers and dual wield them. I'm gonna float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
X: Wait, can you help me with my character in Skyrim?
V: Sure.

:D

Roleplaying without imagination... What a foreign concept...

gpstr and this, what I was trying to get at.

Thanks - I appreciate that.

I have a Nord fighter named Hale (pic in my sig) who has intelligence of 10. I changed it in the console, just because I wanted him to be that stupid. It has nothing at all to do with magicka or any of that - I just wanted him to be obviously dumb. And granted, that has an effect on magicka, but that's not the point, to me. The point is that he's dumb. Really, really dumb.

Sure - I could just make believe that he's dumb, but it's more satisfying to actually make him, at least insofar as the game allows, dumb. I just like being able to do that. It adds something to the characters, in my opinion.

I'm sort of wary of the perks as far as that goes. I think they'll be nice for defining specific abilities and such and will thereby serve to add an extra layer of complexity on the other end - precise forms of swordsman or tank or thief or what-have-you, but I don't see how it will be possible to use them to define overall traits like "dumb." And being able to establish those overall traits really is something that I appreciate, just in and of themselves.

Yes yes I am

No I'm not happy they are gone, I'm also not happy at the seemingly blind faith some people seem to have with Bethesda's descision, SURE no ones played it, have no idea how it will turn out but getting rid of them doesnt automatically mean its a good thing, and with the information we've been provided, **** makes no sense.

some misconceptions


H/M/S is just the 8 attributes folded into 3

Um..no those 3 bars in previous games and their totals did not = what a character can and cannot do, just how much they can before they die or tire out, and Until -TODD- says that there are PERKS for things unrelated to skills, then that still stands anything else is pretty much conjecture, in every interview/preview when He talks about Perks and H/M/S he says Attributes were folded into H/M/S

what part of Personality is in HMS? and since when does a 150 Stamina bar mean I can run like the wind or Carry X amount of weight? Luck? 230 health points don't mean I can take hits better than a person of a different race with the same exact amount of health. and I can see why they got rid of picking birthsigns too, Birthsigns effected attributes as well

the only thing -according to Todd- that we will be doing to H/M/S is picking which one gets a boost per level up. pretty much it, since we will be seeing Skyrim at E3 soon nothing much else to do but wait and see.



you could have a crap personality, and a High speechcraft, or a Low speechcraft and High personality vice versa with merchantile, Speechcraft does not equat personality. once could have a low personality and with their speechcraft coerce NPC's etc etc....and since the Speechcraft minigame is gone, I speculate Speechcraft will be more involved in Skyrim, something along the lines of Dialoge choices.

tell me what is so unappealing about a Highly intelligent Character with a low personality and high speechcraft gutting the information out of nearly anyone he comes across? with his imposing strenght so supplement his nature? this is something they could have redone and made curbstomp anything Oblivion and morrowind portayed as attributes...


Its handled in the Background, Attributes are still there

..No I'll refer you to above, Todd said Attributes are folded into 3...he didnt say Raise health and your strenght and resistances increase, or that higher stamina = more speed and carrying weight, if that were the case -excellent- but its not all he did was give some half assed rational for one of the more easier to explain away Attributes and people fall into his pit of reassurance.


Attributes are restrictive, I don't want to number crunch I'm glade +5's are gone. and now I don't have to worry about numbers telling me what to do

I don't know about -you- but never had I ever felt Attributes stopped me from enjoying the game, Im pretty sure half of you peeps are talking from your ass and Didnt even pay attention to Attributes in Oblivion, they didnt matter much of anything in Oblivion unless you were power gaming, and the LEVEL scaling was the only reason one could think Ups I screwed up my character. and do you -really- think grinding is gone? um....you know you do grind skills for perks right? and less numbers?

There are numbers for weapon damage, H/M/S, Armor, items, Enchantments, Magic, Skills, and NO ONE is complaining about that, just another example of sheep and group think I swear.


you can "roleplay" all you want, and Imagine that your character is an Idiot, but as far as the game is concerned, that isnt reflected, it doesn't matter and only the most committed would even keep up the farce that their character is an idiot even though they formally address their character in the game and thinking I'll have a super human character by putting points in Health or a fast character by putting points in Stamina is conjecture....

Runners have alot of Stamina, Archers have alot of Stamina, weight lifters have alot of Stamina, Swimmers have alot of Stamina, soldiers have alot of stamina they can do what they specialize in for a very long time....is investing in Stamina going to make me a fast running archer, who can fight effectively with a claymore and swim faster than a slaughterfish as well as run full speed in heavy armor?

Neither is "He's a smart elf" very inspiring.
EDIT:

No, the 3 stats does not equal all of the attributes. Skills and perks do that.

But in the end they both did the exact same thing.

Stamina by itself? No.
Again, skills and perks will differentiate.

And what is so damn unique about luck, that it gets bought up all the time?

They do now.

And personality? Simple. Perks under speechcraft. There's a solution for everything.

I am excited about a more action-based Elder scrolls with a natural evolution. No more worrying about putting your points in the proper place and screwing things up. If I want to use magic at one point and then gravitate towards something else it won't break the game. No more power gaming. It makes cross classing more natural and easier to handle. Less of a number crunch and twice the fun. The new animations PROVE that they are trying to make it more action packed and natural. I welcome the change.

Yes.

Thank you, best reply I've heard yet. I really want to believe removing attributes is good, because it's happening whether I like it or not, but I just can't.

everythings independent i like it

Don't buy into that please. Nothing said there reflects true RP'ing.

I'm listening...

Hmm, seems like the poll results speak for themselves

And the nay-sayers will reply; Well most of the fanbase is dumb! Blind faith in Bethesda! 12 year olds that want an Action Game! Etc.

:(

How many attribute threads have their been? I have probably seen about 10 and I'm not on here that often...


Attributes are gone so I don't see the point of yet another attribute thread. It's just general moaning if you
ask me. I mean we have not played the game yet. If you still hate it after you play it then fine, but wait
UNTIL you can get hands on with the game first. It's like the fact you can't judge the games graphics from
screenshots - pointless to judge unless you have seen it in motion.

These threads have been done so much now it's beating a dead horse. We can definitely continue this discussion through PM's if you'd like. I'd rather not clog up this thread.

@FriendlyBear They call us sheep, I call them whiners.

@RegentEagle 30+ at least.

Bukee, Dragon, you both more or less implied a characters speed will be handled by Perks and Stamina.


Atheltics and Acrobatics are not in the game.......so basically your insinuating that 2 Khajiits who increase their stamina at the same time will have the same speed...and again...Todd said NOTHING about secondary effects coming about with raising H/M/S if there was, he would have stated, instead of giving a half assed scenario that nearly everyone is buying into.


I don't want the old Attribute system, i don't want exactly how it worked in morrowind and Oblivion, I'd rather something better and more thought out....PERKS are rewards not descriptors, their are no downsides to Perks they always add not take away. basically with your logic, everyone will jump at the same hieght at this point.. :confused:


and Dragon, this thread IS about Attributes...its on topic...so shoot away, I really would love to see an actual explanation, I believe in Simple statements conveying broad information..but you...no lol




lol who are you to tell me or anyone what true rping is. it means different things to different people so don't even attempt such a weak discredit of what Im talking about....

I'm pretty much exclusively on the forums on a touchscreen phone, so short statements are just really more viable for me. Sorry.

And how would that be any different than 2 Khajiits increasing their speed at the same time?

More stamina means more more sprint. More sprint means overall faster movement.

Perks could increase the speed of sprint or even normal running, and there were mentions about sprint perks.

Okay, no system will ever be perfect, but do you truly think it'll be worse than Oblivion's? I think it'll at least be twice as good, and that's being moderate.

Cheer up mate

Im on here with an Ipod right now, I see you found out how to qoute with with the reply button

Bukee, please point me in the direction where -todd- says there are perks for Stamina...please :hubbahubba:

I'm not too thrilled, just like I'm not too thrilled about not having classes, as I actually loved playing a defined class.. But I'm pretty sure Bethesda knows what they're doing and the game will come out great, because the things they're adding and upgrading definitely outweigh the things they're taking away. :tes:

Haha yea have to press on the actual post for the reply button to show. There's no way to multi quote on the mobile version is there? Also, I give you credit for typing all that on a touchscreen.