Yeah, the player would have to be way too cautious. You would even have to worry in real life if you're in the best possible shape to play before loading your save. And still even if you were you would likely die just because of bad luck, not because of lack of skill. Now that would be frustrating.

Caution is a choice, and no two players are the same. Some would likely not find the system fun, and I can understand that. However, that doesn't mean that such a system shouldn't exist. Difficulty is a choice. Those who want to enjoy the immersion and story will usually play on a easier difficulty. Those who want to focus only on combat and min/maxing will focus on harder difficulties. TES has a wide-reaching and very diverse group of gamers. Why not offer such a system for those wanting the challenge? It wouldn't hurt anyone else in the process.

And how exactly would the "nuking of saves" work? At least on PC you can always backup your save files, so you can restore them even if the game would delete them from the game's folder.

Edit:

This. If a player truly is hardcoe then he can delete his saves himself. The "nuking of saves" can easily be bypassed by backing up the saves.

hardcoe is in the title of the thread. I think a discussion of what hardcoe means is on topic.


Why would you need an additional benefit? Wouldn't you enjoy the challenge?

I don't eat or drink in my games, but I sleep at night and I don't fast travel. The enjoyment for me comes from two things: One, I feel like my character is more real and mortal for it. Two, most of my play time ends up being during the day, which is when the games are prettiest. I don't eat or drink, and I don't nuke dead characters, because the drawbacks (intense annoyance) counter that first source of enjoyment. I assumed you were different, in that you enjoyed the challenge, but if you need some external incentive to nuke dead characters, I think maybe you should just relax and enjoy reloading.


I really don't know why you would think that. Dungeons are historically more dangerous than the great outdoors. There will be some signs yes, but regardless of where it happens meeting a strong enemy may end in a nuked save file. I just don't feel like perma-death works for open worlds like TES because of that. The best part of the game is being able to roam where you want to when you want to, but if you have to worry about keeping your character alive the enjoyment from that disappears. That's why I save every five minutes minimum (well, that and crashes). I like to poke stuff I shouldn't poke.


But you don't want challenge. You want an incentive. You should create your own challenge. I don't think their time would be well-spent implementing this when it would be so easy for you to do it yourself.


Which svcks fun out of the game. I would want to experiment. Test my boundaries.


It is hardcoe mostly because it is unnecessarily frustrating. But that's just what I think.

@Action regarding luck: Definitely. The game is very much based on luck as it is. Maybe not vanilla Oblivion where everything is approximately as strong as you are. But I wouldn't want to nuke a Morrowind save just because I get unlucky and roll ten misses in a row, or nuke a FCOM save because the three bandits I'm fighting stagger me then all power attack at once. When crap like that happens (and oh god does it happen a lot) I tend to turn on Godmode for a couple seconds just so I don't have to reload.

As long as it's optional, and the game makes it quite clear that the difficulty setting which does it will have this effect, I wouldn't see a problem. It annoys me even when I have to replay a whole level in a game due to dying, naturally, I'm not crazy enough to want to play a massive, long lasting game where dying even once means I have to replay from the very beginning, but as long as it only applies if you choose to play the game that way and I can still play the game normally if I so choose, then it can't really do much harm.

Myself, I like to be able to save anywhere, any time, and reload that save if I screw up myself.

If your character dies then just delete all your saves. Problem solved. No need for a special mode that would get lumped in with other hardcoe features (like needed to eat/sleep, etc).

Well if a person is trying that hard to circumvent the permadeath system, why play with it on? It's kind of irrelevant how it is done, just that it prevents the person from being able to reload a previous game for that character.

And if a player wants to play with a function like that, he can restrain himself from loading a save too, right? No need to implement the function at all.

You misunderstand. BGS would create incentive by having the mechanic in the game. If permadeath were not in the game, no one would just willingly do it. Again, take fast travel as a perfect example. I would argue most people that would have an interest in a hardcoe mode don't simulate a hardcoe mode in Oblivion or Morrowind. BGS would have to set that up for players to have that option, and as a result enjoy it.

That's fine. Everyone has their own play style, and wants different things from TES. Permadeath would just be another option for those wanting a different experience. Having a fear of death makes fighting that much more intense and overall gripping. Knowing it's either you or the enemy, you will strive to win no matter the cost.

This wouldn't be hard nor time consuming for BGS to implement. This would merely be there for those who would want to give their best shot at playing the game with only one life. Again, this would not affect the game for anyone else.

You are more than willing to test the boundaries. You just will likely die of foolish actions if you are playing on hardcoe mode. Again, BGS has a wide variety of players, and this would merely appeal to those wanting the experience and challenge.

What you consider frustrating, I consider entertaining and engaging. Had Oblivion had permanent death, the boring and repetitive melee combat would have been a lot more engaging and fun, guaranteed. Having risks can offer some interesting and unseen rewards. Permadeath isn't has doom and gloom as many make it out to be. Most people have probably never even tried such a system, so it's something to consider.

I punch bears and sweat battle axes. So yes I am.

As for the topic. I think if someone wants to play dead is dead, that should be up to them. Though I think a hardcoe mode would be nice.

Well, once I die, I'm going to delete my save file, uninstall oblivion and format my computer and then dump it in a lake.. <- That's realism

Yes, limbs cut and decapitation sounds damn good!

HA! weirdo...

no but seriously, it would be weird, but weird enough that I may actually like playing it a few times until I got so pissed that the tv itself would be in danger of no longer existing.

I would go for it!

I think it is a terrible idea but I never play games with the difficulty cranked all the way up so it would not bother me at all if this was implemented.

Hah, brings back fond memories of many hundreds of hours running Nethack, which I began playing way-back-when on a VAX mainframe at uni and still do occasionally play. In fact Nethack has been one of the most addictive games I've ever played, and I've sunk far more time into it than any single TES game. The sheer ridiculous difficulty makes it more of a challenge and adds an indescribable intensity and excitement to play... especially when you approach the end.

I would love to play Skyrim with an optional permadeath hardcoe mode. It would then be not a game I spend hundreds of hours to reach its inevitable conclusion, but a game I'd spend thousands of hours for the slim chance of maybe seeing the conclusion!

Yes, bring back our old-fogey masochistic game play!!!

You make a good argument, and I can understand where you're coming from what with the intense battles and serious decision making, but I'm afraid I still have to strongly disagree. The negatives outweigh the positives by a country mile. That being said, it wasn't a bad suggestion. Maybe in a different game. :shrug:
If the option was there, I suppose there would be a few people who would love it.

the witcher is a completely different kind of game. it would not work for skyrim considering u cant pick up and kick [censored] on skyrim u culd possibly waste hundreds of hours of gameplay if u ever got that far. pointless and terible for skyrim. that'd work best on a shooter obviously.

I dont see anything hardcoe about having to start all over again if you die. That would just make people extremely cautious and play at a much slower pace
The 3 save allowance on dead space 2 however is rather difficult since that is a linear, challanging game. I dont think it would suit an open world RPG

Its there as an option already. If you die don't reload, start a new character. No need for a mode since some people already play the earlier games that way.

No. I really don't want this. I would love a hardcoe mode where you have to eat, drink etc. But I would want to load my game again.

Instead of perma death we should lose all we had on us and revive in a nearby chapel. Perma death adds nothing to a game.

Aslong as it was an option,it could be interesting one. I doubt many will agree to it though.But as i said if it was an option i think some would like the challenge,it would definitely keep you on your toes.

Considering Bethesda has been all out on consolization since Oblivion, the question would rather be : "will Skyrim be hardcoe enough for me ?", with the pretty obvious answer being : "no, by a long shot, hopefully some mod will correct this".

Sorry I love bgs but there games to glitchy for permadeath things go wrong to easy. I would prefer rp do it off my own back or it be a separate option from all other options. hardcoe mode if done right is enough to manage without worrying the next dragon you see owns you and the only shelter from it is a vampire cave? Tough choice die vs dragon die vs vampire die running away. Sounds 'no' fun. I would play 'no' death on ez jff.

Pretty much, This feature is really something that can be self-imposed, I've got one character in Morrowind who I have forbidden myself to reload after death. Of course you always can, but it's that feeling that you don't want to go back on your own promise, so you try extra hard not to die.

Something like this could be done with just a reward for not reloading after death.