For people with no so great connections, the answer is an obvious yes.

Can't remember exactly how many discs GTA V came on, but I think it was more than 10. I bought a physical copy because it was so big.

I would have done the same with FO4 but luckily found out how it was first. Saved me just buying useless packaging.

With luck, the download will be finished when I get back from work.

Really? an 8gb DVD cannot hold a 30GB game, its physically impossible.

PS4 and Xbox One uses blu-ray discs

physical pc games use either multi-DVD or as with FO4 and a few other games, a single DVD (that contains the game client and a small portion of the game data) & steam method for installation.

if they used a BR disc for pc those who don't have a BR drive would not be able to install or play the game unless they use steam digital download.

This method that beth has used for the physical pc version makes the game accessible to everyone.

also, the internet requirement was announced

http://n4g.com/news/1806392/fallout-4-pc-dvd-doesnt-have-the-entire-game-says-pete-hines

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-4-pc-discs-dont-contain-full-data-partial-/1100-6431658/

^ this is from Pete hines himself on twitter.

Cannot read yellow text cause I like my eyes, but the auto saves seem to take up a lot of space, delete them every so often.

If the PC gaming industry supported bluray you probably wouldn't have this issue. It's something brought on by the industry, not Bethesda. Wasn't the most recent Metal Gear game just a steam installer on the disk? It's something you'll have to deal with because that's the way the industry went. Cutting 3-5 DVDs just because the PC gaming industry didn't back bluray isn't really something most publishers are gonna wanna do.

Also, this wasn't a surprise. They announced there would be some content and the rest would be downloaded. Shoulda chilled on Netflix and not eaten up your bandwidth. Not Beths fault there. I'm actually more shocked people worry about their home internet bandwidth really. That sounds awful if 25gb will make or break your month

Well most home internet companies implemented a bandwidth cap of around 250-300gb a month. I pay a little extra so I have a TB cap, and have never even come close to it lol. But on average that's not the case with people I talk to around where I live(Midwest US), and it seems on the internet as well to be average. So they could still download the game and have left-over and I am not sure why so many are complaining about that honestly. I more would complain about the time it takes to download .

What's stupid is 5+ years ago we had no data caps on our internet, and companies started implementing them because of greed. We should all be complaining to our ISP's and not Beth IMHO, as it's not like internet is a non-renewable resource(oh no we are running low on internets!).

Why not use more discs?

Umm... People STILL have to download over half the game either way. If they used blu-ray discs then it would just mean more people would have to spend another ~hour downloading. What changed? Not a whole lot.

If developers started shipping blu-rays, but still offered up steam download, then I would fork out the cash for a blu-ray drive for my computer. 576Mbps is a hell of a lot faster than my 20Mbps internet connection.

Upfront: Thank You for understanding my frustration and giving a intelligent reply. I am aware of the relevant optical disc capacities. I wouldn't mind using a few DVDs, or a couple of single layer Blu-ray disc, or even one dual layer Blu-ray disc to install, that is why I bought a hard copy rather than the Steam digital download.

I completely understand that the size of software titles have been steadily rising over the years, but so too have the amount of bugs in the software (more function points=increased probability for bugs). No disk can store unlimited data and many of the disc "formats" are still in use today and archive file formats are still the same, even your HD or SSD has a finite data storage capacity. The latest technology for Blu-ray data storage provides a more reliable hard copy backup than many current hard drives including SSD (SSDs currently have a finite read/write limit or lifetime). Blu-ray XL 4's can store up to 128Gb and the newer Blu-ray formats are capable of playing 4k UHD video.

I would like to mention that I am a PC user with a Blu-ray drive. Using multiple DVDs or even a single dual layer Blu-ray @50Gb would not be a problem for me. They shipped the Blu-rays for the game box versions, why not sell full Blu-ray copies for PC use too?, you know, give the consumer a complete choice.

Side note: Blu-ray technology has been commercially available since 2006. Current sales for Blu-ray are stagnant as "streaming" data has become an option for some consumers. Current tech for Blu-ray is the new 4k format. See: http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/196945-panasonic-demos-first-4k-blu-ray-player-but-can-discs-survive-another-standard-transition%C2%A0:

Notice how it does not state that you have to download the remaining majority of the data? The only way you would find out about this little detail of partial data is either wait for the reviews, or follow the back channel Twitter feeds and such. Come on, if it was such a common practice, there wouldn't be so many complaints about it, sheesh. You don't fool me with "that's how its done nowadays" as there wouldn't be so much feedback about it if that were true.

(Oh no! 59% give it 1 Star? Why? Harry M. Merrick's review is funny, I guess we should all be Network Engineers, have an excellent ISP service, not mind the obvious game box port for PC, and should just [censored] ... oh well, I usually ignore reviews like that, but Harry's was so uninformed and conveyed so little information to base a decision on that I thought it was funny. And no, that isn't how things are done today unless you only watch TV or movies and play Candy Crush Saga. Many of the reviews from 4 Stars on down to 1 are a bit more honest and informative than Harry's.)

So tell me this, does the game really run perfectly out of the box? (after a 30Gb initial install) seriously? no problems or game crashes? a steady 60fps all the way? If it does, how magical for you, got any intelligent solutions besides "svck it up and stop whining"? Ah no?, I didn't think so. If it doesn't work, hmm, too bad for you I guess as you must certainly have a bad PC and/or internet connection. In addition to the advent of digital downloads and cloud storage, http://swreflections.blogspot.com/2011/08/bugs-and-numbers-how-many-bugs-do-you.html So, along with a massive 25-30Gb download, once the title is installed, it may not even work as advertised on my high end rig and I will have to wait until it is fixed? I should be happy about that?

Yes, gone are the days of a polished and almost bug free game title coming out on a disc or even multiple discs. But check out the results of this poll: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/poll-are-known-bugs-acceptable-in-software-releases/I do not disagree with that being state of things today. It appears that software developers (and Harry) think that releasing flawed software is an acceptable practice.

Hmm, multiple topics about this issue? Huh, must not be important then. I guess I should just install it during the wee hours and write up a review on Steam, you know, add my concerns to the "Recommend/Not Recommend" poll and such, or possibly return it to Amazon for a refund and give it an appropriate number of Stars? After the refund, I might possibly wait a year or so for the bugs to be ironed out and it appears on sale as a full install GOTY Blu-ray. While I was originally ambivalent about this issue and lukewarm toward the developer, I am now greatly disappointed with Bethesda for the "game box port" of a much anticipated release for the PC and the sleight of hand maneuver with the disk and Steam install.

Ah well, I have voiced my concerns, rebutted some of the inadequate responses, and stated my opinion about how and why this situation could have been handled much much better. It is really my fault though, ... falling for the hype and pre-ordering, listening to the used car sales pitch and believing it, only to find out that my expectations were just a little too high, ... ah well, at least I learned a lesson. But next time Harry? could you at least buy me flowers?

Now I am done, say what you want.

I support your position, for what it's worth to you.
Also I think you expressed your concern with much... agility.
In more than one way; thank you that was entertaining, for lack of a better word.

Although you feel their pratice is wrong and commented on an idealistic/morale urge, you seem to be sincerely unhappy with the thing...
So, if you didn't complain just because you found a genuine good reason to, may I suggest that in addition to express your feeling and expose this "bad angle" (wich i certainly would have done myself) you could call them and ask for refund, they might understand and offer a refund if your clever AND lucky enough. Yeah I know, I am quite an optimist.

Is trying worth the time ? Hard gamble.

Anyway, commercial sharkp pragmatism eating away human de facto respect is indeed an furious phenomenon.

You hit the nail on the head for the 2 key points in this discussion, and that's really all that needs to be said.

The other key point being that Bethesda could have been more specific due to the first point you mention, to help those people make an informed decision.


Steam is the lesser of many PC DRM evils. It has helped in many ways. GOG is preferred, but most gamers accept Steam as a necessary evil and the best option for most companies who don't go the DRM-free route.

First, thank you to all the sensible people who read my post and get the argument. (Buffhamster, Spirited treasure, Daiyus, etc.) Pre-apologies for the massive caps-lock action:

And Jesus F'ing Krist on a pogo stick. I'll type in stock color since it offends ye pansy little virgin eyes and phones. My original RANT is below for your ridiculing pleasure.

@mirglof (& the rest of you that obviously can't understand a simple customer service argument) THIS IS ABSOLUTELY BETHESDA'S FAULT ( Or whatever company thinks this practice is OK )

Yeah, I've been buying games on optical since Quake 1. So what. I don't tell you how to buy your games. Don't tell me how to buy mine. I DON'T WANT TO WAIT TO DOWNLOAD THE GAME. I want to buy the whole set of data on a disc. Yes, bro. I want 4 or 5 DVDs. Or a blu-ray. OR FAILING THAT, SINCE IT'S 20FKG15, A FKG SIMPLE ADMISSION THE ENTIRE GAME IS NOT WHAT I'M BUYING, IF I BUY IT IN A PLASTIC BOX?!?!? DO YOU SPEAK BAIT AND SWITCH?? AT NO TIME EVER IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING ON PC HAS A MANUFACTURER HAD THE BALLS TO FAIL TO INCLUDE THE ENTIRE SET OF DATA ON A DISC. (Patches do not count, that's been a thing since 1994.) DON'T PRETEND TO SELL ME THE GAME ON DISC IF IT IS NOT THE WHOLE GAME. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED. If you don't care about PC gaming, stick your ego back in your pants and don't bother to comment, you stupid trolls. This is a simple customer service fail.

Go buy a car, and then have the sales guy tell you that it won't work until you take it to the dealer.

"But I bought this car to drive it, right now."

"No, you can't drive it until it's been serviced."

"Why wasn't it serviced before I bought it?"

"Because that would have cost us more money."

"But why wouldn't you tell me that before I bought it?"

"Because we wanted to sell you the car."

In general, I like Steam. I download games a lot. But, forcing us to Steam is insulting. Forcing us (stupid, svcker, optical-addicted PC gamers) to download 80% of the content is a whole new low in cheapness.

I might have predownloaded the entire game like the rest of the downloading universe

HAD I ...,,,,----~~~~~KNOWN~~~~----,,,.... ((((beforehand)))) THE --WHOLE-- GAME WAS NOT ON THE FfFFfFFFFF--uuuuU---ccc c c C-- k - - - -K -i II Iii IIIiii nnNN NNNgGgggG DISC!!!!11111111!!!111~!!!

Yes, absolutely. Just like I have before, for many games. Even with my reasonably decent internet, downloading large files is obnoxious for me. I'll always go disc if it's an option. (Heck, I've bought disc versions of MMOs that have gone f2p, just to avoid s much of the download as possible. Even if I could just download it for free. Did that with SWTOR, just this past spring...) Multi-hour downloads are a pain (FO4 took 4 hours), I can't imagine what it's like for the people stuck with 12-24+ hour download rates.

We buy discs to avoid this. If you're not going to put the game in the box, why bother making a box version at all?

Plenty of companies this past year - including Bethesda! - put out games on multiple DVDs. Their choosing to do differently this time is just that - a choice.

Or hey - they could have put it out on Blu-Ray, loudly announced it beforehand, and helped usher in BR drives being the "common standard" for computer drives. But no company is going to do that, because they/their shareholders are afraid of losing sales. But PC owners won't get BR drives until there is a reason to. It's a vicious circle/catch-22.

ROTFLMAO, ... sorry Ian, da Hamstah abides but also agrees with you. I just find the way you phrase it to be very funny. I did find the "that's how it's done nowadays" remarks by others to be irritatingly false and plain stupid. If it isn't false, I challenge anyone to disprove it by showing me another game title where the entire game was not contained on a DVD or multiple DVDs. I tried to search it, but ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=boxed+PC+games+that+do+not+contain+all+of+the+game&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

all I found was this old article: http://kotaku.com/5447954/most-people-are-still-buying-boxed-copies-of-games

this newer article: http://www.everybodyplays.co.uk/news/PSVita/Study-reveals-most-people-still-buy-boxed-games/2022

and finally this one showing how it is not a common practice: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/216919-physical-copies-of-fallout-4-will-still-require-a-digital-download

All I asked for was some flowers and maybe a peck on the cheek next time, ... you know, so I at least think you wont forget me in the morning.

I've a Blu-ray that came with my computer. I'm sure there's others that also have a Blu-ray for their computers. I hope that the next PC game is released on Blu-ray.

Anyways, my nephew got a head start with the full Steam download, that he pre-ordered. Prior to the release of the game, he was able to download the huge amount of info so he could play it as soon as it was available.

I went to a pre-order Midnight release at EB Games (Game Stop), went home, and it took approximately 5-6 hours for the game to fully download after getting the NVidia update that popped up as FO4 was starting to download. The bandwidth was intermittent, which stretched out the time of the download.

Shouldn't a pre-order code for Steam be made available to those who purchase the physical copy, or at least enough of a chunk to avoid this in the future?

Indeed it's not a common practice. It's funny that in all of my harsh criticism towards Beth about this business decision, I've yet to respond to posters about this not being a common thing among AAA studios. I just don't want to waste my breath because this is an instant facepalm. These people act as if dvd's are as rare as a street phone booth. Another said that, well, someone has to step in and usher in this new era of digital distribution only. Well, geez, Beth ain't the right candidate to usher in this new "era" I can tell you that much.

I hate businesses when they aren't being straight with their customers, specially their own fans.

Consider for a moment that not everyone should be obligated to use the internet, nor can everyone afford to pay for high amounts of internet usage. In that light it's like there's been an "internet tax" just to even play games these days. I can only imagine that alone encourages piracy. See a friend who downloaded it and buy it for a fiver on a few discs and not have to worry about high internet usage yourself. Yet a blu ray disc holds up to 50 gig. Yes, most people use DVDs, but most people once used CDs. While no one should be obligated to pay monthly fees to play games, one time upgrades to do so is another matter. If not then we'd still be using floppys.

There's no reason at all that multiple discs can't also be an option. And tech is always getting better to store things on small hardware. A game like Medieval Total War 2 did it. And by not doing it it limits sales to people with ONLY internet. Not EVERYONE can be on it, (let's say you're halfway around the world outside of the server area and ordered abroad) and even if they are it may not be the most stable. Which can get in the way of even simply putting it on. And no, "Put it on then go offline" is not a valid argument, because you'd still have to pay a monthly fee to begin with. Even cheap monthly internet fees will NOT get a modern game on. And finally, net goes poof means games there go poof. Put it on discs and it's on them forever unless they get damaged. One server crash and there goes all our steam games.

My net is actually very VERY good, but I can see the other side of the fence.

And attention getting gimmicks gets your thread locked. From our rules:

It was announced prior to release that it would require a download. However many people are angry about it and I'm sure there is an open thread about it where you can share your anger without using attention getting gimmicks to do so.