If they just made expansions like Solstheim and Tribunal I would be fine with paying around $20 for them... But the DLCs are just ripoffs, most of the DLCs for oblivion didn't even have new graphical content (Example: NEW armors/weapons) like the vile lair, all it had was a lame re-enchanted version of the DB armor...

The one DLC I did like was the Mehrunes Razer DLC, because it actually had a quest that seemed pretty cool, and it DID have a cool new weapon.

Fallout DLCs are all clearly extra content. Aside from Broken Steel (which was released a year later in response to player requests) they all take place in new map areas and are self contained.

With Oblivion, for a couple of the DLC, things were a little more questionable. The horse armor and orrery were probably cut content, but they're also basically fluff.

I don't think Bethesda have stooped to the Bioware level with DLCs so far...

It doesn't really make much of a difference at least to me.

Agreed, it really is sad to see a company succumb to greed/misdirection like bioware, they were so good, then.... :nuke:

I think that they really should just make 3 expansions and charge like 20 bucks each for them. They wouldn't have to be bigger than Solstheim was, so not a TON of work for the dev team.

Or if they actually raised their standards, why not?!?
I actually wouldn't feel bad paying for DLC, and I wouldn't feel like a victim of the system if I got something larger than Solstheim, or larger than Tribunal. If you wanna impress, you gotta deliver.

The spell tomes was interesting, though i doubt it was anything new, some simple scripting by a modder could have done the same, KoTN had some sweet new meshes and textures, but it lacked a good story, and the wayshrine thing was just annoying, and you honestly don't need the homes except for role-play purposes, the only reason i even started using one of them again, (specifically wizards tower) was because of the frostcrag reborn mod, if that was included in the original DLC, then it would have been definietly worth it.

I was lucky enough to find a hard copy of the DLC's (a special pack with all DLC's plus KoTN) so i was able to run away from the DLC problem, though i still understand the problem from experiences with other games.

I'll repeat what you said.

Its a matter of opinion.

Fallout 3 was always known to have an end. And a level cap. You know what? I liked it better that way. With the exception of the ES games, games end. Neverwinter Nights ended. Shadows of Undrentide ended. Hordes of the Underdark ended. Neverwinter Nights 2 ended. Mask of the Betrayer ended. Storm of Zehir ended. Knights of the Old Republic ended. Knights of the Old Republic 2 ended. Jade Empire ended. Mass Effect ended. Baldur's Gate ended. Jedi Academy ended. Fallout ended. Sid Meir's Alpha Centauri ended. Diablo ended. Diablo 2 ended. Starcraft ended. Starcraft Broodwars ended. Why wouldn't Fallout 3 [which was not Elder Scrolls Fallout: Oblivion with gunz] end? I believe it was only the constant complaining, moaning, and whining on the forums that made them reconsider and raise the level cap and allow the play to continue after the end. I think it sort of ruins the game, actually.

As for the level cap, I play D&D and crpg games; level 20 is the usual cap; most characters are ready to retire by the time they hit level 20. It took Hordes of the Underdark to raise the level cap to 40, and the campaign was built around having a higher level uber character. If the game/creatures/enemies aren't intended for uber leet high level characters, then it usually ends up ruining the game. Morrowind effectively had no level cap; although there was one, at 255, iirc. And the forums were filled with people complaining there was no challege at all in the game for their uber leet god pcs. So Tribunal came out with harder enemies, and people leveled up their characters even more. And the forums were filled with people complaining there was no challenge for their uber leet god pcs. So Bloodmoon came out with even harder enemies, and people leveled up their characters even more and went hunting for the level 99 werewolf. With no restrictions on raising skills, there won't be any way of setting challenges in the game. Oblivion's level scaling tried, but it wasn't quite enough. My pc in Fallout 3 at level 20 was basically an untouchable army of one; clearing out the supermutants at the mall, the Outcasts, the raiders, the enclave, it didn't matter. So the point of raising the level cap even farther was what? Raising the hit points for enemies isn't a challenge, its a pain in the neck in most cases. Albino radscorpions just take more ammo to kill. The higher level ghouls can be nasty, but again, enough ammo and they're dead. Ditto the uber supermutants. I would rather have a level cap than the alternative.

I don't think they could've released the "house" dlc as an expansion. It would have taken more work to put together some kind of a background/story/reason for why all of the "darker" housing choices would have been available for a paladin type, and why the Mage would end up with a castle, or a thief would end up with the mage tower, or whatever mix and match would fit your character. At least Shivering Isles had a story, whether or not it was a good one is personal opinion.

You may want to check out the DAO forums. There are discussions going on about the dlc for that game. Its liable to be interesting. Its also the reason I'm going to wait and see what's going on with the game before I decide whether to buy it or not. And that decision kinda hurts, because I've always pre-ordered Bioware games without a second thought.

Yeah, okay, good points there.
I was shocked to see FO3 end because I was spoiled by Morrowind & Oblivion, from the same company. I didn't know what to expect, and was pretty stunned. Same applies to a level cap. Stunned, from playing the above mentioned.

I suppose D&D is different than AD&D, I never had level caps. I think I kinda started out in D&D, and moved on because it seemed weird, with characters questing for immortality and whatnot. I don't know how it is nowadays, or if D&D still exists; I'm just sayin back in my day. My campaigns were all about freedom, so i never encouraged characters what do do/not to do. If they wanted to keep playing after hitting levels in the 40's and 50's on up, I made more challenging adventures. Even the module Throne of Bloodstone was for levels 100+ IIRC. You can't develop truly epic stories without truly epic moments. Having a party of highly experienced characters journey into the 8th Plane of Hell can generate some interesting memories. But you're obviously not going to have that if everyone panics when they hit level 19, and considers retirement. When weighed against the more powerful foes, level 20 doesn't stand a chance most of the time. So I don't consider Tribunal and Bloodmoon to be products of ungrateful whining. They're really fantastic.

I wasn't saying release a house as an expansion. I'm just thinking what if everything could be lumped into a single release, or two releases. Don't torture us with DLC slowly dripping on our foreheads.

True, that is why I have waited this long to pick up Fallout 3. Did they really not plan for DLC? I planned to buy the GOTY game before Fallout 3 was even released, because I knew the predictable pattern that would force people to pay for the game three times over. What I didn't anticipate was the raising of the level cap, wholly admitted by Todd, along with the ending, to have been a failure. Really, something essential to gameplay as levelling should have been fixed in a free patch, not a DLC, as IGN said.The downside of this is that I have to wait a year to buy gamesas games, but at least I buy the full game that way.



Actually, the general consensus is that KOTN made up for the loreless world of Oblivion.


Hell, Dunbarrow Cove even has the cave still there in Vanilla, so it was obviously ripped. Same goes for Battlehorn, there's a road on the freakin' map that goes to a dead end.

Shivering Isles was/is in my opinion one of the best expansion off all time.

It brings story, quest, armor & weapons, spells and interaction with other npc's to a new level. Also you get the feeling of a new game, because it's so different from the original, but at the same time it brings with the best of the original game.

FO3 DLC's is the worst Beth. has ever done. You get the feeling of a EA game. (Sims, Battlefield 2 etc.)

yup, and Mehrunes' Razor (the weapon) was in the Construction Set for vanilla OB. :rolleyes:

I didn't like KotN, there wasn't any moral ambiguity, and the whole thing seemed really cheesy. Yes, there was new lore, but the presentation was cliche.

I prefer two or three large expansions to seven DLC.

...and the flagpole-like spear in the ground on Gnoll mountain where some uncles tower shows up, or the lonely island waiting for a vile lair to show up, etc.

If Bethesda really wants money... make a couple huge expansions. Right there you have something to for you to do while planing TES VI, and make more money then 5 DCLs that the website goes down


Random Conspiracy theory: the website could be purposely down so if you have to Knights of the nine Retail, and Shivering Isles. 1 DLC pack twenty bucks, one Expansion pack 20 Dollars, One game thirty Dollars.

70 Bucks

I just don't get why you would want to make 7 small $5 DLCs that some people won't buy (actually I would say most people but I am trying to be fair here) instead of 2/3/4 expansions like Shivering Isles or Solstheim that could be sold for like $20.

That's $40 vs. $35.. But you also come out with far more sales because everyone goes like "OMG EPIC HUGE GAME BUY BUY BUY" instead of "OMG EPIC LAMEASS DLC I WON'T EVER BUY!!!"

Plus you come out of it feeling like you didn't totally rip your fans off... hehe

Well, It gave MK the chance to spawn the only non-vivec related discussions of worth (exaggeration) in the lore forum, its gotta be worth it.



I've got the PS3 version, so I know very little about the DLC beyond what I've read, but The Razor in the CS? :facepalm: That's gotta be proof of either stupidity or greed.

Yup. The only location that didn't have the terrain already pre-flattened was the fort ruin for the Mehrunes' Razor quest. Spell tomes was cool, but way overpowered because it makes acquiring spells so easy and inexpensive; combined with the ability to easily spam spells to raise the skill level, and it just underscores the unbalanced spell mechanics. On the bright side, some of those spell tome spells were actually pretty darn cool and creative.

I kind of feel that way with broken steel, but the rest I don't feel were necessary to "finish" the game, actually, I feel the opposite, the way Bethesda fit them in the world was inorganic to me. I am more worried that gamesas will keep putting out [censored] DLC like O:A and MZ, instead of good ones like the others.

Still think they should do full expansions though, the $10 DLC format doesn't allow them to make big enough lands like they did in Bloodmoon and SI to have a true Open ended (Miniature) TES experience, and not just a large dungeon.

If I remember right, when Bethesda made a deal with the devil (Microsoft) to make Oblivion an X-Box 360 game, Bethesda had to create a certain number of DLC packages that the 360 users could dl with points that they had earned by playing. Since making DLC packages free for PC users would have been unbalanced, Bethesda charged for them. :meh: Now I did buy the KotN DLC collection at Best Buy, but I do not want to ever buy a DLC online like how it was set up.

Personally, I hope that any DLC content for the next TES game is free and adds things rather than make you wonder why they didn't just include it in the original game.


*

Salbeth said it.

What do you mean "earned by playing"... you buy points, not get them by playing games.

:hehe: I guess that I got my facts wrong. I only knew that X-Box 360 users got points somehow, I just assumed that the points came from playing games.

Sorry.


*

You do there are two different types of points.

Microsoft points: you use these to buy products off xbox live
and
Gamerscore which you get by playing games.

What do gamerscore points do?

Dumbed down for the masses? :facepalm: