I'll try and keep this brief so I don't bore myself to death and so that I can get some decent discussion going.

(yes i'll be mentioning Fallout 3)

I noticed in Fallout 3 that Bethesda seemed to pay way more attention to DLC than they should have done. This resulted in the game feeling very much 'unfinished' with the main quest actually being unfinished in my opinion. I am worried that Bethesda are exploiting this new way of purchasing game add ons by simply making the game whilst it's on sale. Fallout 3 was not a completed game without the add ons in my opinion and the add ons really are quite expensive. When I buy a game I expect everything to be there, not a half completed game with more things to be added in later.

Now Oblivion had some excellent add ons but the difference between these add ons were that the original Oblivion game was complete, it was jam packed with quests and things to do and had a well rounded amount of quests. In fact the Shivering Isles was fantastic and no doubt if a DLC like that was released I would buy it but that's because it was a real project, something that added to the game not completed it.

My question is that are you worried that Bethesda now think that they can release astronomical amounts of DLC thinking that it can make up for a game that isn't astounding in the first place?

I think there should be no DLC's in TES5 because if it is actually good there will be need for any DLC's. I hope TES 5 isn't going to be like oblivion is.

Well, I've never paid for any of Bethesda's DLC. I've bought their expansions though, Bloodmoon and Tribunal.

I'd hardly say Fallout 3 was "incomplete", it was quite enjoyable without downloadable content, and it's not like there was any glaring places where one could clearly see that content from plugins was supposed to be, the only instance where I'd say the downloadable content serves to "complete" the game is Broken Steel, which I don't think was so much left out of the game to be included in a plugin later as it was that too many people complained about the ending so Bethesda decided to create Broken Steel to appease them.

What worries me about downloadable content is that Bethesda may decide not to give us a proper expansion (such as Shivering Isles and Tribunal and Bloodmoon.) and instead keep selling more small plugins, such as seems to be happening with Fallout 3. Just give us a proper expansion, instead of trying to milk more money with repeatedly releasing small plugins.

Agreed.

Well said.


Same here mate

I hope they aren't going to do modular content in TES V, that would feel like I'm playing a comic book. Charging ?40 a game was bad enough, but when its not even finished...

I wouldn't mind them doing proper expansions, though, because they're more of an afterthought to an already full game, rather than a planned drip feed.

I have a real hard time justifying payment for http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/updates_plugins.htm

More so given the pixel to penny ratio of these DLC, if applied to the vanilla game, would price it over $1000 and the content seems to have been ripped out of the finished game specifically to milk money out of loyalty.

Those are my thoughts too, but as long as the downloadable content is something you can easily enjoy the game without, I just don't get what Bethesda wants us to pay for that we never had to pay for before. The problem is when things I actually would be willing to pay for (such as a full length expansion.) are sacrificed so Bethesda can work on more plugins.

Usually I wouldn't say anything in a thread like this, but I know that dev's read the forums and often so I'd like to try put a little bit of context on the situation.

First of all, I think its a very unfair call to say Fallout 3 was 'unfinished'. They spent alto of time on it, and delivered a game with far more hours of play-per-dollar than you're likely to find in any other games (previous Bethesda games excluded). Not only did they have to attempt to satisfy Fallout fans, but all Bethesda fans and the mainstream gaming community, after the success of Oblivion. So it's safe to say they had their work cut out for them. Very few people actually see everything in the vanilla Fallout 3 game; I'd wager you haven't seen all of it either. That alone is merit to say the game is big enough.

If you read up on the interviews that were floating around just after Fallout 3's release (which you won't) you'll see that Bethesda had 2 planned DLC's. Those 2 were the first to enter development and be released. The ideas had originated before the game's shipment, but there reaches a stage in development where the devs say 'That's enough content, its time we delivered this'; if they don't then they stay in development for ever. You might say they should have put these things into the game instead of delivering them after, but as I already said, the game was big enough to start with. The concept of the original 2 DLC's was to create NEW experiences in Fallout.

I'll ad the point here, because many people often overlook it. One great benefit of this kind of digital content is it occupies the developers who build worlds, art assets and story line, while the other devs can get to work on the company's next game. Because the early stages of a game do not need world builders as much, their talent is much better spent on creating content for the LAST game.

The next 3 DLC's all came as a direct result of people's opinions of the game. People didn't like the story ending, and so it was expanded. This is entirely different from the game being delivered half-finished and completed later.

My point is, whether or not Bethesda should make DLC or whether the base game should be bigger is a matter of opinion. The thing is, most people's opinion is that the game is big enough. If Fallout 3 shipped as it did and Bethesda NEVER made content for it then people wouldn't be complaining about how small and 'unfinished' it is. It is only when the developer realises they can still make MORE content that YOU realise there could have been more content, then suddenly everyone comes out complaining that they've been cheated. If you buy Fallout 3 for 40 pounds, or $60USD or even $100AUD, you're still getting more game for your dollar than you are for anything else.


So no, I'm not worried about DLC being released for Elder Scrolls 5. No matter how much content they put into the game, there will always be room for more of it.

I'm not worried about the DLC. I am worried about HOW we are going to get it. Having to install GFWL, make an account for GFWL, making a Google Checkout account and fill in credit card information, going to a 3rd party website to buy a code, waiting 12 hours, receiving a mail with a picture of the code for the 4200 MP i bought, filling in that code in GFWL and THEN finally get to download the DLC. It is the biggest hassle I've ever had to get expansions (yeah, I call it expansions although they aren't. Whatever..) so I hope they will NOT use GFWL again.

Fallout 3 didn't feel unfinished to me, and in fact, I actually prefer the game without some of the new "ammo sponge" enemies, a la albino rad scorpions and the like (holding down the fire button for half an hour is not my idea of 'fun'). The worries over the lack of a proper expansion instead echo my fears exactly.

That said, Fallout 3 didn't really have past precedent the way TES has. What I mean by that is basically that people are going to compare TESV to TESIV. If Beth releases a game with noticeably less content out of the box than Oblivion, the fans are going to know, and they're going to be pissed. I'm pretty sure that Bethesda knows this, and so I doubt they'll short change the game in favor of milking their fans with DLC. The initial game will have to have enough content to stand up against Oblivion.

I kind of think it is unfair buying DLC's you could just DL some awesome castle instead of spending money of Battlehorn.

Or DL Cyrodill Integrated for quests instead of Mehrunes Dagger

Fixed that for you. Oblivion was a big step backwards from Morrowind.

I'm talking realistically here. Most reviewers and even most fans are going to be comparing it to Oblivion.

For the record I liked Morrowind better as well, but that's beside the point. It's the most recent game (and the game with the most sales) that will be the bar when people are comparing the sheer amount of content (such as the landmass, number of NPCs, quests, cities, etc.). Remember that we're talking content here, not gameplay differences.

Yes I'm actuality really worried I don't mind spending $30 for a huge expansion but I don't like bite size bits. SI took me a good while to beat totally .

I would honestly prefer Bethesda to never make DLC or plug-ins again, some mods do waaaaay more than all the TES DLC's and plug-ins put together, i would simply prefer it if they made more expansion packs, DLC's and plug-ins should be at KoTN level at least, other than that, they can use the time for making expansion packs, i was sad to learn that oblivion had 1 expansion pack, whereas morrowind had 2.

Since I buy TES games for the PC, I know that 100% of the content is modifiable. Beth does a good job with their expansions, and they are generally entertaining and worth the [reduced]price. I bought fallout 3 for the xbox 360 and haven't played a single DLC. I still find it fun, but I know that as soon as I find every location on the map, and enjoy all there is to enjoy out of the game, I will become bored and move on. The DLC's were made to stretch the gameplay value with creative ideas that a Beth developer thought of but couldn't make into a full game. Anyway, back to my point. If 100% of my content for TESV is modifiable, then I should be able to customize the game to my liking. If Bethesda releases an expansion that adds another fifth of game content, I'll buy it, play it, and most likely replay it. However, if Bethesda releases an "aesthetic" DLC (such as the thieves den or vile lair)(I use the term aesthetic because it doesn't add any story but just a new little excursion for the player while an expansion is a new adventure [if the Redguard definition of Adventure is to be used]) I will look at it, take the ideas, and see if I can create something like it, or something based off of it in the construction set. However, I haven't played KoTN yet as it appears to be too small to be an expansion (thus I am reluctant to pay for it), but too large and adds too much lore and story to be a DLC (thus I can't recreate it). So I am not too worried about DLC's because I know that the modding community will always produce some gems that will have me playing over and over again just to experience them all. (Ex: OOO, MMM, Deadly Reflexes)

It was unfinished. I felt enraged and ripped off. When it ends, it ends. Yay, a linear game with a level cap! Kick in the nuts. Oh, don't worry gullible fans, the end of the game will be extended IN A DLC. Great idea. Now I can't finish the game until your crappy DLC gets puked up.


That's a matter of opinion.
If they had plans for DLC, they could have just released everything in one or two hits - and call it an expansion. Not some stupid wizard's tower DLC so you have a place to hang your bathrobe, etc. The greed from the DLC market sure has a high success rate of ruining games. I'm already considering cancelling my DA:O reservation. It's getting overhyped, and I'm 110% sure that it can't possibly live up to its growing reputation - #1, it's linear. So even if it's great, it ain't.


I'm very worried. I'm worried that it's becoming a TREND. Lower your game production standards, so you can make up for it from all the idiots who buy your randomly scattered DLC packages...
Hopefully topics like this can change this seemingly inevitable crash course.

Couldn't Have said it better myself. The content of Oblivion DLC is the same as Morrowind DLC, but you have to pay for it.

Expansions > DLCs.
Always.

i loved most of the elder scrolls DLCS except the knights of nine that was pathetic but i trust bethesda will do a great job as they usualy always do

Agreed. And I agree with many of the other posts in this thread. I like expansions that feel like entire games themselves. I don't like the bite-sized DLCs, especially ones that were obviously removed from the full game in order to have them be DLCs later (Dunbarrow cove, Mehrunes Razor, etc).

I'm more worried about the core game myself. I haven't really played FO3, so I can't comment on it but I have played Oblivion. As much as I enjoyed it it seemed incomplete to me and a cop-out (as far as game play and story line is considered). As much as I liked it, oblivion needed some expansions or DLC or mods... or something. If that's what they intend to release next game than they might as well not even bother. Make a great game! Make it so good that it doesn't need anything added on... and than add onto it any how to expand the experience.

Also, since we're on the topic of DLC's, when will Oblivion Downloads be back online!?!?!?!? :banghead: