Thanks for the pictures. Yes, Greenway Coast will indeed have much much more vegetation.



Yes they are all on the coast. To be specific, these are the lands south of Gideon, lining Topal Bay. Pic here to reference- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/TamrielMap.jpg

Really like the gloomy feeling. That map you posted, it's huge! It would be breathtaking if MW was modded to include all of those lands. Of course, it wouldn't be feasible. But just imagine!

Some thoughts on slavery, and how this might effect the setting, politics and tensions between characters:

Morrowind is the only province in which Imperial law allows the keeping of slaves. But it is presumably illegal for Dunmer to actually capture Argonian slaves from the Black Marsh, as they would be committing the act outside Morrowind.

It reminds me of how in some areas it's legal for kids to smoke cigarettes, but they're forbidden from buying them. The law has to be broken for them to acquire the cigarettes, but once they've got them, it's OK. It would be totally illegal for Dunmer to enter the Black Marsh and capture Argonians, but once those Argonians are back in Morrowind as slaves, it's legal.

Now, the Black Marsh has two geographical borders:
- One with Morrowind: the only legal slave province. What's worse, the most prolific slavers (the Dres) are right over the border.
- One with Cyrodiil: the only ones who can protect them from invading slavers.

From this I can imagine the situation (and wide range of attitudes) of northern Argonians when it comes to Dunmer slavers:
Help us, Imperials!
Thank you!
Where are the Imperials at a time like this???
Why don't the Imperials have more forts here to protect us?
Don't abandon that fort, we need you!
My son/wife/sister/friend got kidnapped! Where were the ever-so-righteous Imperials? They did nothing!
I love the Imperials, they protect us from slavers.
I hate the Imperials, their law is supposed to protect us but they don't enforce it enough.
Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical... (the reverse side of the coin from that Morrowind 'latest rumours' topic )


However, remember that even though the Imperial law is supposed to protect them from slave parties, it can't do anything to help captured Argonians after they've been taken across the border. Imagine the further tension this would create. Northern Argonians in the border regions would be in a panic if someone got kidnapped. Once the slave party crosses the border, it's Game Over, the Imperials can't help anymore.

I don't know about Russian, but in English there are very specific names for different types of wetlands. For example, a marsh is a wetland with few trees and mostly grass, whereas a bog is similar, but entirely rain-fed and acidic by definition (and a fen is the same, but fed by groundwater and is neutral or alkaline in pH )

A "swamp," which is how Bethesda describes Argonia, is basically a flooded forest.
So Argonia should look something like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Florida_freshwater_swamp_usgov_image.jpg
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/pwd_bn_w7000_0120/images/lrg_bald_cypress_swamp.jpg

I think there are some good descriptions in the Pocket Guide.

I always (personally) pictured Argonia as kind of a combination of all those environments, really (Marshes, Bogs, Swamps, etc). Simply put, I assumed it contained almost every type of wetland environment, centering in to become pure swamp lands at its heart - with the outskirts being littered with Marshes and Bogs which then further taper off into the environments of Morrowind to the north and Cyrodiil to the west.

Those pictures are dead on how I would see the heart of Argonia as being.

Agreed, I always imagined Argonia as a range encompassing of all those environments. Just like Morrowind has its varying regions (Bitter coast, Ashlands, Grazelands etc).

And of course since it's described as a swamp and called Black Marsh, a general theme is certainly set. Although I can imagine there might be one or two small pleasant environments (even Morrowind, a volcanic isle, has 2: Grazelands and Ascadian Isles), but the overall tone certainly seems to suggest Dark, Wet, Misty, Murky and Unpleasant.

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles32035.jpg
http://dnr.state.il.us/wetlands/images/swamp21.jpg
http://static.desktopnexus.com/wallpapers/10463-bigthumbnail.jpg
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/habitats/freshwater/I/Fen_Poland.jpg
http://www.arkive.org/media/5E/5ED515A8-F637-4E32-9689-5E4109E1BC09/Presentation.Large/photo.jpg

That is about spot on what I was thinking in regards to the way it should look, and I have even tossed out a little futher thought on this (though not per se through looking into Argonia lore much for area descriptions).

I have always pictured the eastern coast as being something akin to marshes tapering into some low flatlands on the coast with some light foresting mixed into it:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_eastcoast_001.jpg?t=1256634206

On the southern coast, I kind of always pictured that the inland swamps would have the strongest pull leading to the south, and it would still remain a very thick swamp, with patches of open marshes mixed in:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_southcoast_001.jpg?t=1256634025

On the northern border to Morrowind, I always imagined the various mountains and forests opening into a thin and cracked type bog, like small islands broken by little rivers all over:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_northborder_001.jpg?t=1256633928

At the western borders with Cyrodiil, I had pictured a more spread out bog land, as though a flat land had been dotted by many small lakes all over the place, constantly impeding ones path:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_westborder_001.jpg?t=1256634123

Due to the nature of how I pictured the eastern coastal area, I imagined that the eastern midlands would actually be rather plesant, as the forested coastal marshes open into an open plane of flower laden marsh land:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_eastmidland_001.jpg?t=1256633746

As for the midlands to the south, since the coast region I pictured will still fairly heavy marsh and swamp land, I imagined the southern midlands to be increasingly dense swamp forests:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_southmidland_001.jpg?t=1256634079

The midlands of both the north and the west would be fairly similar, due to the similar border construction - both opening into much larger and deeper open marsh lands:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_northmidland_001.jpg?t=1256633968
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_westmidland_001.jpg?t=1256634165

Once you finally made it to the inland area of Black Marsh, regardless of the direction you came from, you would find yourself in a deep and dense swamp that consumes all of the heartland of the province:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_inland_001.jpg?t=1256633820
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_inland_002.jpg?t=1256633859
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/argonia_inland_003.jpg?t=1256633898

Anyways, that has always just been my personal take on it, I know zackg has done some extensive research into lore for this, so I trust the development on that aspect.

Either way, hope the pictures and ideas help

The Morrowind/Argonia border is going to look much more like a flooded Fangorn Forest than the Dead Marshes.

Fair enough, as stated, none of those ideas were based out of any kind of lore at all

With that as the case though, the depictions for the southern coast I described above would be able to easily be transited to the Morrowind borders, and the Morrowind borders ones to the southern coast (especially since I think from the pictures zackg has released that look like what I had said for the Morrowind border are of the southern coast).

Oh, and since I got to looking at some of the pics I have on my PC for this, I found some stuff for building types too possibly:

Argonian Treetop Walkways:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Walkway_001.jpg?t=1256636345
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_FancyWalkway_004.jpg?t=1256636382
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_FancyWalkway_003.jpg?t=1256636392
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_FancyWalkway_002.jpg?t=1256636387
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_FancyWalkway_001.jpg?t=1256636388

Argonian Treetop Buildings:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Building_005.jpg?t=1256636515
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Building_004.jpg?t=1256636517
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Building_003.jpg?t=1256636519
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Building_002.jpg?t=1256636519
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Treetop_Building_001.jpg?t=1256636525

Imperial Swamp Walkways:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Swamp_walkway_001.jpg?t=1256636658

Imperial Swamp Buildings:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Old_Imperial_Building.jpg?t=1256636659
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Maintained_Imperial_Church.jpg?t=1256636660
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Maintained_Imperial_Building.jpg?t=1256636663
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/RedEye_tha_Harvester/morrowind/Abandoned_Imperial_Shack.jpg?t=1256636670

Yay, you finally started up a new thread!
I like the dangerous plant idea.

I'm not sure if other people think this would look good (tell me if you don't), but I think it'd look better if the grass went into the water a little.
Other than that, looks amazing, keep up the good work (oh, and I'll pm you about this in a few weeks).

Yes, Argonia is known as a swamp...but do you really want to play in some 4000 cells of consistent swamp? The land is still pure wetlands, near all the way through, but it changes as to where you are.




Yup, thanks for these. The lands will actually be fairly different than the way you did your links though.




Im sorry, but none of htese will make it into game. Maybe the Imperial housing, just because its falling apart. Argonians thrive in water, not by going in trees and staying away from it. Even though the tribal Argonians of Darkmoor live in trees (actually in an hollowed eggsack that uses veins that hang into the swamp to absorb water and expand its size, roped up to trees to raise it 3 or 4 feet from the surface) I really want to keep the player on the ground as much as possible.

As far as Imperial representation, I want to present the Imperials structures as unfit for the land. For instance, when walking through Soulrest you might be directed to some Imperial officials house, only to find in half sunk in mud because they didnt use the proper building techniques.



I do =-).

This is awesome. Only thing I'm thinking of is what about dungeons? Without hard ground/stone/mountains, dungeons and such would have to be done differently. Maybe in some of the more solid parts there could be earthen mounds/labyrinths of soggy tunnels made by tree roots, or in the more boggy parts instead of "dungeons" there could just be twisty labyrinths of vines and undergrowth, sort of like how the special location in Valenwood was in Arena (can't remember its name, but the special location that held a piece of the Staff of Chaos)...that place was more an organic above-ground maze than a dungeon.

Looking really good so far, zackq.

Underwater tree-root dungeon kind of things would be cool. It would be a lot of work to create the tileset, but I think the end effect would look great..

Walking along in a marsh, you come across a mass of tangled roots. You push the roots to the side (open the "door") and are in a tunnel-shaped jumble of roots. It's a tight fit, with lots of convoluted twists and turns, but you are able to just barely make it to an air pocket before running out of breath.

That would be neat.

Those are some fabulous early screens. I'll be watching with interest.

nice to see this mod back in action, Zackg. looking great so far.

A quick screenie before I go to bed

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Argonia/MGEScreenshot12-2.jpg

Testing some swamp trees out.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Argonia/MGEScreenshot16-1.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Argonia/MGEScreenshot17-1.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Argonia/MGEScreenshot18-1.jpg

Strangely enough, I don't actually use any of the TR stuff simply because I'm waiting for non-telvanni owned regions. But Argonia I would probably spend most of my time in. ^^ And I'm not big into playing Argonians!

Edit: forgot to actually mentions stuff about the mod! Looks great Zackq. I'm also glad to see your still working on it. The swamp trees look good to me. Though they might be a little thick. But that is just my opinion.

looks amazing, and im looking forward to it. keep up the good work!


Also:

if you ever need any help with factions, quests, quest stories (i specialize enormously in this, and Zaldir in the oblivion modding forum can attest to that) or NPC's/dialogue, you can always ask me.


I prefer if you emaild me though, so heres my email:

ironhide108@gmail.com

I really like the swamp trees! One thing I just thought of...would it be possible to make the water in Argonia more murky, like either darker underneath or more green tinged than the waters in Morrowind?

Just been working on this for a few hours total and Darkmoor is my favorite region..=-)

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot10-10.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot11-9.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot12-11.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot13-12.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot14-11.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot15-11.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot16-10.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot17-8.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot19-11.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/MGEScreenshot9-9.jpg

very dark and brooding. in other words, nice!

Looks amazing

So far so good, but im more curious how you will handle argonian settlements