it was the plan in Morrowind, they added Orcs and Imperials as a compensation.
The result disprove they who say this forum has no impact on the games

^I don't think thats too unbalancing, especially because water breathing wasn't a passive skill.

As long as it's not "Lol no Boots and helms"

If they do that, then I'm not playing Skyrim, simple as that, If you can't accept any attempt to create races that depart from the boring elves and dwarves we see in every other fantasy setting ever made, than stop playing the Elder Scrolls, stop tring to ruin the Elder Scrolls because you want generic fantasy crap. Or you can just make a mod to replace every Khajiit and Argonian NPC with a boring race like Nords or something, at least then, you ruin you're Elder Scrolls and not mine. But that doesn't work, you have to ruin the Elder Scrolls for everyone who doesn't want every fantay setting to be populated only by the exact same races.



You mean it wasn't a constant effect ability? In Morrowind, it wasn't, probably so Argonians could complete the Pilgrimage of the Seven Graces, it was constant affect in Oblivion, though, and I don't know about Arena and Daggerfall. Either way, I'd hardly call it overpowered, seeing as it's not like waterbreathing is all that useful when there's not much interesting under the water. Immunity to poison on the other hand was nice, but not every enemy would use poison, so it wasn't really overpowered either. In any case, there are a number of ways to give a race disadvantages, and entirely preventing them from using certain types of equipment is not really the only way. You can also give them certain penalties to stats are negative effects, like every single other race in the setting gets if the designers decide they need penalties.



That's because they don't need pants, seeing as there's nothing they need to cover...



I happen to disgree on thatr, very, VERY strongly, on the other hand, I think elves look stupid, they should be making toys for Santa Claus, not walking around in my serious fantasy involving civil wars and gods intent on destroying the world, they should remove all elves from the Elder Scrolls, oh wait, no they shouldn't, and you know why? Because a lot of fans would hate that, that's why. You can't just go removing races from a setting without your fans complaining.



I haven't heard that, the only thing I've heard sounding even remotely similar is that all races will "look cool and unique", and that's too vague to really draw that conclusion from, even though the way I see it, if you want Khajiit and Argonians to look "cool and unique", making them more beast-like, within the limits of what still looks like an intelligent race we're supposed to be able to relate to, at leaast is definitely the way to go.

oh... oops. never played an argonian in Oblivion. My bad. there wasn't much water to explore in OB so I'm sure i wasn't missing much.

you consider lizardmen and cat people to be original. :laugh: im sorry but saying that elves are unoriginal but beast races are original is just ridiculous. beast races are just as cliche and uninspired as the elves. removing them and replacing them with something new would improve my game cause my game would be geared more towards advlts and not kids who want to play animal crossing. http://www.fanpop.com/spots/nintendo/images/1673691/title/animal-crossing-background-photo

quick google search comes up........

http://www.toyarchive.com/Thundercats/Thundercats.html

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/766/766555/earth-eternal-20070221045422406_640w.jpg

http://videogames.virginmedia.com/features/article/16-02-2010-994-7.html

http://rogercruz.deviantart.com/art/Rei-Breath-of-Fire-113338357?moodonly=1

and if you google lizardmen you get even more.

some of us want serious original fantasy............not first person "breath of fire" games.

I miss their dodgy morrowind walk animations.

The argonians in Oblivion look adequate from a distance, but up close they rather look like an unholy union between a mutated salamander and a catfish. I seriously hated that about args. I did think they improved the Khajiit though, from Morrowind where they were kinda bad-looking imo. Not terrible, but just a little bad.

Personally, I hope they redo the argonian models into something that looks realistic, maybe even give them a good head (ok that sounded terrible lol) and then a new racial (cannot use helms, but have a natural armor bonus to make up for it). For the Khajiit, just build upon the oblivion model and update some minor details, maybe better fur with lots of choices in what fur pattern you have (tiger, cheetah, etc).

So your fantasy game should have only humans. Dark, grim, gritty, emo, goth humans, at that, because according to you, anything remotely bright or light-hearted doesn't belong in "serious" fantasy. I'm guessing Dragon Age Origins is the only fantasy game you've ever played, or will ever play. Diablo maybe? Naaaaah, not "advlt" enough for you. Warhammer? That's grim and dark and serious and mature and... oh wait, it has beast races, forget about it.

You might want to broaden your horizons some. Read a few books, play some different games for once.

@ accaris

no, what i want is a game with new races altogether. hell if they put it on a completely different planet with no humans at all it would be an improvement. there is only so much you can do with fantasy which is probably why i prefer sci-fi settings like deus ex and STALKER.

if they made the khajits and argonians look so different than every other cat person or lizardman out there it would be much of a deal for me. as it is now they look like every other beast race out there. make the argonians have large clawed hands and feet, give them hunched over heavily muscled shoulders and smaller eyes. right now they have cutesy puppy dog eyes. and why is it that every race can swim just as fast as a species that is suited for the water. argonians should swim circles around everyone else.

khajits need some kind of change to make them more bestial as well. they also need to be faster than the other races as well or make them jump a bit higher. as it is now both races look like people that you see at a cos play event. bringing back the morrowind style legs is a start (they can make armor fit them just like it does male/female so i dont see that as an issue) but they need to make them way more distinct and way different than the human and elf races. if you can make an argonian not look like an iguana at a pet store, then i would love to play a species that has water breathing and is resistant to poison and disease.

ive played and had a blast with the predator mod so its not like im stuck on human only. one of my favorite characters was an orc named Grab 'er Butt. although orcs need to be overhauled as well. i hope that when they say the races will be distinct and different from eachother that they really mean it.

ive been playing rpgs and games since the 80s, so unless your older than me i dont think you want to start a "who's played the most RPGs" contest cause ill win hands down.

I loved the unique look of them but they were at a disadvantage to other races because of them not being able to wear boots.

And helms.

they could simply have the armor automatically conform to whatever race your using. it makes sense anyways cause when you get armor in real life it has to be fitted to the person. unless your a peon soldier who gets whatever is left in the barrel you can get armor customized.

If we go back to Morrowind's look, can the beast race atleast get special boots/helmets? It's rather unfair to limit a player because of the race they choose and to make them more vulnerable since they can't equip all the armor.

Immunity to poison, 75 resistance to disease, underwater breathing. But if we really want to get into this discussion, here's what the other races have had in the past 2 games
Morrowind
Altmer: -50 fire, -50 magicka, -25 frost, -25 lightening, +75 disease, fortify max magicka 1.5x (150% more magicka)
Argonian: +100 poison, +75 disease, Water Breathing for 120sec on Self, Cost 5pts
Bosmer: +75 disease, Command Creature 5pts for 600sec
Bretons: +50 magicka, Shield 50pts for 60sec on Self, Fortify Maximum Magicka 0.5x INT (50% more Magicka)
Dunmer: +75 fire, Sanctuary 50pts for 60sec on self
Imperial: Absorb Fatigue 200 pts on target, Charm 25 to 50 pts for 15 seconds on target
Khajiit: Night Eye 50pts for 30sec on Self, Demoralize Humanoid 100pts for 30sec on Targe
Nords: +100 frost, +50 lightening, Frost Damage 25pts on Touch, Shield 30pts for 60sec on Self
Orsimer: +25 magicka, Berserk - Fortify Health 20pts, Fortify Fatigue 200pts, Fortify Attack 100pts, and Drain Agility 100pts for 60sec on Self
Redguard: +75 poison, +75 disease, Adrenaline Rush - Fortify Agility 50pts, Fortify Endurance 50pts, Fortify Speed 50pts, Fortify Strength 50pts, and Fortify Health 25pts for 60sec on Self

As we see, it's redguards and nords who are clearly the best choices.

Oblivion
Altmer: -25 fire, -25 frost, -25 lightening, +75 disease, +100 max magicka
Argonian: +100 poison, +75 disease, Water Breathing (constant)
Bosmer: +75 disease, Command Creature up to level 5 for 60 secs (lol)
Bretons: +50 magicka, Shield 50% for 60sec on Self, +50 max magicka
Dunmer: +75 fire, Summon Ancestor Guardian for 60sec on self
Imperial: Absorb Fatigue 100 pts on target, Charm 30 for 30 seconds on target
Khajiit: Night Eye for 30sec on Self (no cost), Demoralize Humanoid up to 25 for 30sec on Target
Nords: +50 frost, Frost Damage 50pts on Touch, Shield 30% for 60sec on Self
Orsimer: +25 magicka, Berserk - Fortify Health 20pts, Fortify Fatigue 200pts, Fortify Strength 50pst, and Drain Agility 100pts for 60sec on Self
Redguard: +75 poison, +75 disease, Adrenaline Rush - Fortify Agility 50pts, Fortify Endurance 50pts, Fortify Speed 50pts, Fortify Strength 50pts, and Fortify Health 25pts for 60sec on Self

this time the bretons are the winners, due to +50% resistance to all magic, have a nice shield, and +50 magicka. Redguards are also still very superior.

Also, who the hell is going to drown an enemy to death? And poison/disease resistance is more like resisting minor annoyances.

BSG has created a wonderful world where all of these races have interconnected backstories, and unless one or more of them disappear like the Dwemer, you're going to see them in every TES game.

In both Oblivion and Morrowind, it seemed to me that the beast races were implemented in a rush, with development focused on the humanoid races and ensuring they got every aspect of those races right. Morrowind neglected to add in meshes for helms and footwear for beast races, while Oblivion went the other extreme and conformed the beast races to the humanoid armour meshes.

I sincerely hope that whoever is in charge of the Argonians and Khajit for Skyrim learned from the past and made sure proper development time and effort was put towards making the beast races an experience that feels less like an add-on and more like they are meant to be there. I played an Argonian in both Morrowind and Oblivion. In Morrowind I felt truly alien, and while I didn't miss helms or boots wrt stats, I did feel that the lack of any such wearable items for beast races was a glaring oversight. In Oblivion, playing an Argonian was cool, but after a while I did not really feel there was any difference between my toon and the other races, except for the colour of my skin. I might as well have been playing an Altmer or a Redguard.

For beast races to truly work on all levels, I believe the following must be present:

1) Digitigrade stance, not as extreme as in Morrowind, but there.
2) Better animation. Beast races aren't going to walk like humans, but the Morrowind walk looked really awkward.
3) Unique meshes for beast race armour, at least for feet and helms. And not just stretched versions of the human meshes, but versions that actually look designed by beast race armoursmiths to account for beast race physiology.

I agree.

oooooh. I see where your coming from. Your first post scared me. I completely agree with you on the Argonians and Khajits.

And actually, in Morrowind Argonian's had a really high bonus for athletics so they could swim a lot faster.