Divering from a discussion in another thread...

According to lore, Argonians may be able to change gender. There is no concrete evidence of this. It is speculation based on the language they use in reference to gender. But given its scope, ESO could potentially answer this question.

Personally I like holes in lore to be filled in, mysteries to be solved etc. So I'd find it interesting to discover the truth of this in ESO. And the idea of players being able to change gender has so many possibilities. Imagine the fun you could have with Argonian drag names?

Could be controversial though. I like that the ES games have a fairly progressive attitude towards sixuality. But I wonder what the kinds of groups who objected so loudly to SWTOR's "gay planet" would do with something like this.

Like a species that changes over via hormones because there's too many of one six around... o_O madness....

I dont think it would really be plausible. Even if they decided to make it confirmed lore, it would be under certain circumstances. Like bullfrogs, where if there are no males present, a female will begin to change into a male so they can continue to reproduce. In ESO, I am sure there will be plenty of both sixes.

I hadn't even considered that possibility. Was thinking more along the lines of something the Argonian does to begin the change. Though I suppose that's how it often works.

I'm trying to imagine random Argonian's in a guild changing gender because there were too many of one kind. Or four male Argonians walking into a dungeon and only two walking out.

Sure, why not? Fantasy is a great place to explore aspects of our own society we take for granted. It would be a bold move on ESO's part and spice up the lore. Channeling shades of Left Hand of Darkness...

As a general rule, I think plausibility can be stretched a lot in RPGs without breaking thanks to eg. magic. So its lore needn't be strictly bound by real world biological norms.

I could, for example, imagine Argonians having evolved the ability to change gender automatically like that in response to mating needs. But they're not fish or bullfrogs. They're sentient beings. I could easily imagine them learning to trigger the change. Will, drugs, magic. Any combination thereof.

HAHAHAHAHA what a weird thing to think about. xD

Bold indeed. And I'd applaud them for that boldness. But maybe they'd shy away from it out of a realistic fear of it costing them sales.

Somehow I'd managed to never hear of those books. Though they don't seem like the books my father would have been into or he'd want me reading. I think I'll track them down.

My mind has a tendency to play things out to their natural conclusion on its own. Sometimes the results are well, yeah, weird.

Sure. My Argonian wouldn't mind switching should the need arise

Would require quite a lot of core changes, since ingame (not sure), npc's will react to gender, and there are 2 genders, out of which all other races are "born" its not race 1- 2 genders.

Its 2 genders-10 races.

I'm afraid of what in the world of molag bal "need arise" would mean...

Persobally I think it would be funny if were just a rumor someone made up to freak people out.

Only framing this in reference to Argonians. Other species changing gender via eg. the wonders of magic is also possible I suppose. But possibly 10 times as controversial for it a) involving humans instead of lizards and not being a cultural thing.

NPC's reacting to gender would just be a matter of database value for your character. 1 = female 2 = male. Changing that is as easy as pie. The game is changing other character database values constantly while you play. Incidentally race would just be another numeric value 1-10. Race and gender completely separate.

I don't think they'd really need to change anything. Just give players the opportunity (at least once) to set the appearance of their other gender. Keep the same skin pattern, eyes, maybe hair (I didn't look at the female Argonian ones though), but let you adjust the head and body proportions. That should be a relatively simple job cloning the character creator but disabling a few of the sliders.

I thought the wink said it all!

Oh yeah, read LeGuin. She's one of the founders of the sci-fi genre. Classic.

I hate to say it, but maybe such a thing wouldn't upset people too much because they're Argonians...I mean, who can tell in the first place?

My biggest fear would be people demanding that every race be allowed a six change. I guess that isn't really a problem (although it made for a few characters with gender inappropriate names in FF14, which was kinda funny) but it would take away the meaning such a thing would have in terms of a lore-based game mechanic. In any case, it's more interesting than Skyrim's cannibal perk.

I'm eager for any kind of new lore on the Argonians. They certainly are mysterious.

What's an Argonian?

It being lizards might make it less of an issue for some. Not many to go by but so far almost half the poll respondents don't want Argonian players able to change their gender. So it may still be outside many's comfort zone.

The boobs apparently give it away. Comes up every now and then in the forums - complaints about Argonian females having boobs but not being mammals.

Possibility different builds too? I should check in the creator next opportunity I get.

I don't really see any benefit to the player. It'd just be a lore consistent novelty. But I can appreciate how some might see it as an unfair perk.

If it has a multi-pronged hyphenated name, is covered in scales and smells a bit swampy, you may be talking to an Argonian.

Small sample size but wouldn't be surprise me if the pattern held true with a larger one.

With 50% voting no to allowing Argonian gender change for players - something which could be fully supported by lore - seems this is too far outside many peoples' comfort zone.

The race that is better then humans and elves and 2nd only to Khajiits.

From lore POV, that sounds like fun. From a Dev or game machine POV, not sure how well that will work -- some people are not in a lore (sad but true) and they will be confused by it.

The thing is, it doesn't bring anything other than complaints at why this specific race is allowed this...

I mean the issue with genders in TESO is nonexistent, there is no difference in how a M/F character will play out in the game, so there is no need for these drastic changes other than.... "hey guys I can make my guy have boobs" comments and worse....

Simply put, no ingame value to justify it, and also I'm sure it wouldn't be mechanically easy to put it in the game framework either.

I am more curious about what the lore says for Argonians having a certain mammal trait, aka briasts, with them being lizards.

I can not find any lore books on that topic, but a RP theory says

They lay eggs like a lizard, but when the young hatch, they will need milk, that is why females have briasts.

They are not pure lizards -- they are people too and some can debate if they are really cold or warm blooded even. If they are really warm blood, that is why they can live places like Skyrim. IRL, some dinosaur might be warm blood as well.

Hist wanted it that way . Really 90% of Argonian lore and stuff can be explained by Hist wanted it that way. All hail the Hist!