I'll try to keep my personal bias out of this when I say these topics seem to attract trouble. I doubt the OP or anyone else who asked a similar question ever intended on it, but they seem to degrade into fights over who is better. It's natural that people need to defend their decision, and I think Bethesda did an excellent job depicting a "gray vs gray" conflict that makes people really think about who they want to side with.

Its cowardly to personally lead your forces wielding a daedric artifact while being outnumbered...Very cowardly.

Opps Edit mistake

I had just said Martin was not born perfect.

He was born with the Blood of Tiber septim, Septims are known to be more then Human.(As barus said in Ob

Martin lead his army against a Daedric Prince....and won. The Medes lost to a group off High Elves with their heads shoved up their own ass.

Im Talking about the Last battle of the war...It was considered to be one of the greatest and tactically Brilliant victories in the Empires history.

Coming back after an entire year of letting his citizens get slaughtered by the Thalmor and having a "heroic" victory isn't considered a "Brilliant victory". It's what he should have done in the first place.

As mentioned before, Alot of trade comes through the empire. Like Markarth made how much of it's income from it's silver? With the silver hand now erradicated (asuming compaion quests are canon, which there is no reason to beleive them not so) I can guess Markarth strongly relies on the empire. And what of Solitude and windhelm? And Dawnstar has a port too for repair if I remember correctly.

Also, Legate rikke mentions that a cold and harsh land like skyrim cannot grow enough food for it's enhabitants. Most of the food is ported over from, guess who? The empire. Skyrim will go hungry without the trade. It only makes sence that the Empire will sanction all trade to those that rebel against them.

Now, Lets say the empire lost the civil war. Alot of time and resources would have to be called upon to raise an army. Don't forget that generally, during a rebellion, when the threat is over most people go back to thier normal jobs and lives. This makes finding an army difficult. Also, as they can't count towards the empire for any help when the thalmor attack it could be an easy defeat. Don't jump onto the Hammerfell bandwagon yet, though, as I have yet to describe what would happen if the empire were to win (and its also worth mentioning that redgaurd are extreamly talented warriors, more so than nords, go figure)

Now, lets say the empire won the civil war. There is allready an army that won't fall apart once the battle is over, for a start. Secondlly, this gives more power to the empire, aswell as more money (from taxes) and more recruits for thier army (from recruits that came from skyrim) This makes the empire more powerful. Also if skyrim (or cyrodil/high rock) were to be attacked, because of the extra support from skyrim they may be able to fend it off (People make a big deal of the empire surrendering to the thalmor despite being able to fend them off, so this isn't as farfetched as it seems at first). This in turn makes the empire seem stronger, so it could stave off other attacks from the thalmor, giving them more time to rebuild, and also may attract more support from the other provinces that left it.

As a general rule of thumb, countries and provinces tend to work better together, rather than split apart.

EDIT: A few gramatical errors, paragraphing came out all wrong.

Bethesda wasn't arsed enough to include some proper interaction, so you can even join the Stormscum as a High Elf and stand right beside Ulfric when he gives his hate-speeches againts elves. Fail.

So yeah, I would say that joining Stormfront Stormcloaks would be kinda implausible for other races, but any RP value goes out of the window thanks to the issue above.

Might I also add that Hammerfell got a large number of Legion "invalids" that were left behind and formed the core of the army that drove the Thalmor away.

I agree with most of your points. People are quick to jump the gun and dismiss the Empire as useless without looking forward more than 2 meters. Literally.

You want to beat the Thalmor, you stand together and push those sassy elves back into the sea.

Yeah, TIBER Septim was known to be more than a human, and MARTIN Septim was descendant from him. Thats it. Hes only special because he is descendant from him and he can wear the Amulet of Kings, not because he has special powers that make him an excellent strategist.

That's a nice theory but most of it doesn't hold up...Empire supporters need to let go of this hope that they could successfully fend off the Thalmor at this point. Cyrodiil and High Rock, even with the help of Skyrim...Cannot successfully defeat a joint attack from Alinor, Pyandonea, Elsweyr, Valenwood. The Empire's betrayal on Hammerfell will forever be a reminder that they cannot fully be trusted. The Empire has lost the trust and respect of the other nations and without the help of the other provinces, any resistance is doomed. Empires rise and fall...This is the beginning of the Cyrodiilic Empire's fall. Ulfric needs to be assassinated and a new leader needs to be appointed...Then, perhaps this new leader can rally the other nations together, including what is left of the shattered Empire, and finally stand up against the Thalmor.

Not sure how acting arrogant is going to help your argument at all?



And a war torn Skyrim could... how?

Lets look at simple numbers here:

If the Empire wins civil war, they have Cyrodiil, Skyrim and High Rock under their control. I'd also wager that in the next war, Hammerfell wont fight on the side of the Thalmor and will fight on the Empire's side instead.

If the Stormcloaks win the war, the only other province I can guarantee them is Hammerfell. With Titus Mede being the such a weak ruler as you described, I find it unlikely that he'll seek peace with Skyrim.

wut

Get off that high horse, please.


Nice theory you have there but speculations work both ways.
Who's to say that Stormcloaks will sucesfully fend off the Thalmor afterwards? Who's to say this "new leader" will also prevail?

Cyrodiil, when it was still in league with Skyrim, still did beat Dominion once. Again, who's to say that they (Empire and Skyrim again united after the Imperial victory againts the rebels) cannot defeat a join attack when it was done in the past?

Obviously, Bethesda is the one doing the lore here, so one can only assume.

Pyandonea...An island continent that is home to the Moarmer -- tropical elves with the ability to control giant sea serpents and command them to attack coastal cities and enemy fleets. They have joined the Aldmeri Dominion.

As I remember, wasn't alot of Valenwood still in support of the empire? I know alot of them got executed but I have to wonder if they all counted. Also I don't think the Kahjiti really care about the conflict do they? They only left the empire because the thalmor did some magical hokey pokey with the moon or something and they were in their debt, unless my source wasn't as detailed as it should be?

As for hammerfell, I don't think all of them were so hateful towards the empire, wasn't that redgaurd woman from the whiterun inn a secret empire supporter, and she was being hunted for it? If people in hammerfell had to keep those sort of secrets to themselves, then who knows if they still really want to support the empire? If they saw the empire kicking thalmor butt then it would probably become gradually more accepted.

I cannot see another empire-like uprising however. If everyone really does resent the empire as much as it has been stated, and the empire does fall, then why would anyone want to rejoin another? I can see the TES universe going one of two ways in my mind (although beth might do something crazy and unpredictable, nobody can really ever know) and that's either every province becoming seperate, or a huge fight in tamriel between men and mer.

I know what Pyandonea is, but.. they joined the Dominion? When?

Because the only reason the Empire "won" against the Aldmeri Dominion is because the Thalmor didn't want to spend anymore funds and resources to bring more troops from Alinor, Valenwood and Pyandonea. Mede II basically admitted defeat by giving in to the Thalmor's demands. This in turn ended the need for the Thalmor to spend even more money then they had hoped on reinforcements. Since then, the Thalmor have become even closer allies with Pyandonea and have had 26+ years to build up whatever funds they need for an upcoming war.

I never heard of Pyandonea joining the Dominion. And the time I checked they hated the Altmer.

Edit: Okay they did work with the Old Dominion. But there's been no sign of suggestion that the new Dominion has ever allied with Pyandonea.

Evidence for this? There's nothing on UESP's articles on either the Aldmeri Dominion or Pyandonea to support you claims.

"Literally translated as "Home of the Elves", the Aldmeri Dominion was an empire that as of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Second_Era#2E_830 made up the realms of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Summerset_Isle and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Valenwood. It was formed when the heirs of the Camoran Dynasty began to fight over the Valenwood throne. A faction of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer attempted to make peace with their enemies in the Colovian Estates by offering part of the Valenwood territory in exchange for the faction's claimant. The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Altmer, upon hearing of this, invaded Valenwood, citing a stewardship clause in a thousand year old treaty ^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmeri_Dominion#cite_note-PGE1AD-0}. The Altmer established the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thalmor as the government in Valenwood on behalf of their claimant http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_C#Camoran_Anaxemes (whose ascendants made the original treaty a thousand years before). As the Empire was still recovering from the Interregnum, the Colovian armies were easily forced back by the Elves and the Aldmeri Dominion was born. The Thalmor strengthened its hold on Valenwood province during the foundations of the Third Empire and Bosmer tribes continued to skirmish with the Colovian Estates under the rule of the High Elves. With the Empire reunited under Tiber Septim the attacks subsided although each side remained encamped on the border waiting for a decisive battle. At sea, the Elven forces were considerably more powerful and the Dominion was able to hold the southern waters from the Cape of the Blue Divide to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Topal_Bay. The Elves made allies with some Reachmen, the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Maormer of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pyandonea, and the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elsweyr Confederacy. Although there was no formal declaration of war, Tamriel was divided between the Empire and the Dominion in an unfolding clash of civilizations. The catastrophic use of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium ended the long confrontation, resulting in the surrender of the Summerset Isles and the human conquest of Tamriel. The Dominion would represent the last time the elves of Tamriel ruled sovereign kingdoms on the continent, the final legacy of the Direnni and Aldmer holdings."

Then I fail to see how Stormcloak victory would be a better outcome in this case. With Empire unification however, there is still a chance of having the odds, but with a single nation that just got out of a civil war? Not so likely.

Your story about a "new leader" sounds interesting, however *that* seems more like a wishful thinking to me even more.

Different Aldmeri Dominion. Finding it ironic that you attack someone else for not knowing the Lore but then make a mistake which could've been corrected by realising that we're no longer in the second era, which is fairly basic stuff...

From what I've read, Valenwood give most, if not all, of their support to the Thalmor. As for the Void Nights incident, the Khajiit of Elsweyr have claimed to be in dept to the Thalmor for "bringing Masser and Secunda back"...The Khajiit depend on the moons for their survival because their births and species-type is all governed by the moon phases. Elsweyr saw this as the Thalmor saving them from utter extinction.

As for Hammerfell, Titus Mede II and the Empire turning their backs on them created a huge rift between the provinces...Relations will be almost impossible to repair anytime soon. especially since this only happened about 26 years ago. Hammerfell holds a deep grudge against them.