The Imperials are essentially the ruling class of Tamriel. Their forts are spread across the provinces, the natives of each land are more or less subject to the rule of Cyrodill and now they are losing their grip, which i am quite happy about. The way i see it for Imperial legion read: Roman empire (and i always cheer for the barbarians), and we are currently in the last days of this empire, they are losing their grip and are going down. Perhaps it is time for the native provinces to to be independent. But as i say, the Nord faction, which i would normally support, is not doing themselves any favours by being dikes to everyone who is not a nord. If i stick with the empire, they better pick themselves up, get their house in order and be kicking the Thalmors butt back to the Summerset Isle.

Perhaps, it is time. Not sure. If real life history is any example, after Rome fell, Franks took over, and after that, things just split further - but the same issues kept popping up. Nothing really changed much from what Rome was. A lot of class issues remained, war was still everywhere.. In some ways, Rome was better though. They didn't have a "Dark Ages". Early European History took a downturn, culturally and educationally until the Renaissance, where they realized the classical world did some things better.

It could go either way. People overstate the racism of the Stormcloaks. At least one Stormcloak jarl has an Argonian housecarl.

Also, reading The Infernal City, Argonians are just as divided as Nords about whether the empire has been a benefit or not. Some think the empire brought good and order, but others resent the imposition of foreign values on their way of life. So you could have some sympathetic leanings with Nord rebels, especially after the empire tries to cut your head off on your way in. I would think that that would at least even the playing field with the Argonians' marginalization in Windhelm.

That's a commonly held but I believe fallacious view of things. "The Dark Ages" is an invented term- invented by Enlightenment philosophers who despised everything medieval and northern European in favor of classical and Mediterranean. The Renaissance revival of classical values brought many negatives, among them things like disinheriting women, revival of slavery, and rampant religious wars.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Talos_Mistake

Was wondering what people thought about this book.

It might be a relatively new term, but there's some good reasons for it. The Dark Ages lost a lot of knowledge on architecture, for example. By the time the Renaissance came around, they were literally stumped on how some buildings were constructed. Artists/Engineers reversed engineered and reinvented the wheel on some ideas, in a sense. They had no handed down oral tradition or books to go on. Literally "in the dark".

I think that book was propaganda. It is a VERY big deal to remove Talos from worship.

Question is, does anyone other than the Thalmor realize what banning Talos actually does?

You realize you're talking about the era of the great cathedrals, right?

That's a good question. I have a feeling that few do.

I don't know if it's propaganda. The premise of that book is that Talos takes away reverence of the 8 divines. If it's propaganda, it's propaganda of the 8 divines. It just sounds like a theological opinion.

Secondly, I don't know why Talos worship would be such a big deal to another Dovahkiin anyways. A dovahkiin who's basically growing into something more powerful than Talos was. I don't think Talos actually consumed Dragon souls? He just had the inborn shout. Each soul makes a dragonborn more powerful. Talos was a badass by being a good general and leader. People compare him to Jesus because of the "man who was made god" idea, but he was more like Caesar, who was also declared a god after his death.

Difference is Talos ACTUALLY became a God. In Morrowind, you meet an old man who gives you a coin that gives you a permanent blessing. You later find out that old man was really an avatar of Talos. In Oblivion, you find Talos' enchanted armor which can protect against even Daedric influences. While some may argue Talos isn't a god, the fact is that he REALLY is a divine no matter what anyone says. When the Dragonborn founds an empire and becomes one of the Divines, then we can talk about them being equal.

Why does that mean he's a god? Does he say it? He's kind of mysterious in Morrowind. He's blessed by Akatosh. He could be some kind of demigod. Your character is blessed by Akatosh as well.. except you're adding to your power by killing off dragons. Technically, some of these dragons, even if not reflected in game, are roughly equal to daedra. Alduin isn't called a world-eater for nothing.

Regardless of the mythic side of banning Talos, the Thalmor somehow don't seem to be trying to genuinely wipe out Talos worship. At least not yet. Right now it seems like more of a means to split and weaken the Empire from within.

Both my characters didn't start out as Talos worshippers, but in becoming the Dovahkiin I would think it would be more natural to feel a kinship with him than a superiority. Maybe it's because I use his amulet a lot in the game since I often use shouts- after a while of getting his help in battle, even a skeptic could start to think maybe there's something to his mythos.

I would side with neither. After all, in Oblivion Imperial leaders were known to have Argonian torture chambers in their castles. Bottom line, it svcks to be a beast race. Nobody likes you.

Even Redguards? I don't think so. Most Red Guards hate the Empire.

Kinship is good.

I kind of wonder if you're both part of another "celestial" type of category, that no one talks about. Kind of like dragons are in another category besides divine or daedra. One reserved for dragonborn. I suppose most of them would be former Septim emperors.

I agree, I went Stormcloak on my Redguard and it worked very well.

to quote directly from the Lore:


this points out that what Titus II did to hammerfell was their own fault. They were part of the empire until they refused to cede their lands to the Thalmor. but this is about an argonian getting involved in the CW (Civil War) which he/she has no reason to help either side

I disagree. The incompetence of the Mede family is what's to blame. If Mede I would have taken care of the Thalmor as soon as they tried to seize control of Summerset Isles, perhaps the Great War could have been avoided and the WGC would never have had to be signed. Honestly, we could speculate forever...but it's clear that the lack of proactivity displayed by the Medes in the early 4th Era is what allowed the Thalmor to rise to power.

Seriously, people, I think you're all missing the answer here. There's no "right" side.

Everything depends on an "unless" or a "but" and an "if only."

I.e. If the Empire conquers Skyrim, it can rebuild and throw the elves out but only IF the Emperor grows a spine or is replaced.
I.e If Ulfric conquers Skyrim he can rebuild its military so it can smack around the Thalmor but only IF he doesn't exhaust himself or drive away any potential allies.

That's the nature of moral ambiguity and politics.

Yeah, everybody has a legitimate grievance with everyone else. However, the only thing that's going to save Skyrim (as part of the Empire of Tamril or not) isn't Ulfric or the Legion. It's going to be the Dragonborn. Not just from dragons but ending the war in a conclusive manner and getting everyone back on the business of beating the dung out of psycho omnicidal maniac fascist elves. Hell, even the Dragonborn killing bandits and Draugr in dungeons is going to benefit everyone because it gives the chance for Skyrim to rebuild itself economically and militarily.

If this were Bioware, your Dragonborn would be able to magically conquer the Empire and declare HIMSELF Emperor (which honestly WOULD solve a lot of problems) but the current situation is screwed up beyond all repair without the protagonist. NEITHER side is really going to benefit anyone in the long run because right now, they're in a stalemate where the Thalmor are getting stronger and the Empire is getting weaker (so is Skyrim). Every Stormcloak who dies is another soldier lost who could be killing elves, ditto the Legion.

This

you have to keep in mind that the ingame skyrim is much smaller than the lore skyrim.
You can't influence that many people in the army of the stoarmcloaks.

The fact that people are debating this so thoroughly, just shows how incredible a story Bethesda has created.

For my part....I sided with the Stormcloaks even as a Breton. As far as I see it the Thalmor are the real enemies. For them there is great benefit in this war and which ever side eventually wins will be weakened and so easy to destroy, making the Thalmor the rulers of Skyrim. The longer the war continues the weaker both sides get, to the great satisfaction of the Thalmor. Divide and conquer.

The Imperials are idiots if they believe the Thalmor will honor any sort of peace treaty. The Thalmors hatred of menkind will never allow a true tolerance of mens existance in any way.

If I had my way I would destroy Imperial presence in Skyrim, assassinate Ulfric and replace him with a competent leader. One that will join with the free provinces such as Hammerfell, to destoy the Thalmor once and for all.

An Empire controlled Skyrim is a Thalmor controlled one. There is nothing more then a temporary peace under any sort of Empire rule, allowed by the Thalmor as they manipulate all the provinces towards their master plan for world domination and eradication of mankind.

So in conclusion, Argonian or Khajit or mankind, all should side with the Stormcloaks.......for now, as that is against the Thalmor.