You're bringing up currency and things that have barely been touched and explained in full and try to use it as evidence. Even if that were true, it pales in comparison to the Empire cutting off all ties with Hammerfell, one of the Empire's strongest allies. Not to mention how do you think the Empire's betrayal of Hammerfell with look to the remaining nations? This shows that the Empire cannot be fully trusted, that they will turn their backs on their own allies if it means they can save their own hides. This will undoubtedly destroy relationships and set up tension between the Empire and the other nations.

Now what you just said...is wild speculation. Not to mention uncharacteristic of the Empire. If the Skyrim follows the Stormcloaks...they WILL cut off ties with the empire. And thus they will be far poorer for it. A free nation...but a sick and weak one. Whilst they keep the Empire they are stronger then otherwise. That's really all I have left to say on it for everything else has already been said.

It's not wild speculation at all. It's already been stated that the other nations are losing faith in the Empire and that it's exactly what the Thalmor wanted. Hammerfell wants nothing to do with the Empire and that is common knowledge. Nice try though.

Black Marsh left the Empire, Elsweyr left the Empire, Alinor cut off all ties with the Empire, Pyandonea decided to merge with the Aldmeri Dominion instead of the Empire, Titus Mede II turned his back on Hammerfell, who in turn labled the Empire as cowards and backstabbers. It's common knowledge that public opinion about the Empire from the other nations has decreased over the years. Even Skyrim is iffy about the Empire.

Far from wild speculation. It can all be found in the lore. Point is, if the other nations thought the Empire was still a competent establishment, the alliance wouldn't be in disarray at this point.

What? Are you listening? If the stormcloaks over throw SKYRIM THE NATIONS WILL LOSE FAITH IN THE EMPIRE!! Then they will be broken AND separate. Weaker then during the Great war.
Besides you seem to be arguing against the empire as a whole...not the which one is better for Skyrim.

You obviously don't get it. The nations have already lost faith in the Empire. Why do you think Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr, Pyandonea, and Black Marsh want nothing to do with them? The Empire has already done damage to Tamriel that cannot be compared to any of the foolish mistakes the Stormcloaks may make in the future. The Empire saw that the Thalmor were invading their territory and waited ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY NINE YEARS to do something about it. Now all of Tamriel is paying for it. 26 Years After The Great War, The Empire still isn't in any better shape then it was back then and are still hated by the majority of Tamriel.

Both sides are flawed...But clearly the Stormcloaks are the lesser of two evils. They have a better chance of repairing relations with the other nations and rising up against the Thalmor than the Empire does. The Empire has burned far too many bridges over the years.

Oh boy... this again...

The Empire is little more than an alliance between the Cyrodils and the Bretons right now.

The empire is dead Not even Mannimarco the god could ressurect it

Argonians are strong now , it's almost impossible to invade them , a recipe for disaster because Black Marsh's environment is so hostile to man and mer .
They don't care about the Empire and are probably hostile to the Thalmors .

So i'd say neither Empire nor Stormcloack for Argonians , unless you roleplay a pure merc Argonian who fights for himself hoping to get a reward by helping either side .

Like I said...the stormcloaks are the death of Skyrim. We'll just have to wait and see when the Thalmor overruns them. And it still makes no sense why an Argonian would join them.

What makes you think "Diplomacy", "International Relations" and "Stormcloak" go hand-in-hand? Ulfric generally appeals to the stereotypical "ME CRUSH!" Nord.

Stormcloaks are the death of Skyrim. The Empire is the death of Tamriel.

There.

Forced and temporary servitude
Whilst Dear old mighty Ulfric and his stormcloaks will probably be forever prejudiced against argonians.

Ulfric Stormcloak isnt the one that officially destroyed the alliance between the nations. Even if Ulfric needs to be assassinated...Skyrim still has a better chance of gaining the favor of Hammerfell and the other nations than the Empire does.

Redguards hate the Empire for abandoning them in favor of Thalmor peace and demonstrated that they could fight the Thalmor alone, thus provoking the thought that the Empire should have fought on.

Dunmer and Argonians should side with Stormcloaks. The only way to gain respect from your peers is to prove you are worth it. The Nords don't respect anyone (even other Nords) unless they are proven honorable and skilled in battle. Dunmer and Argonians also hate the Thalmor, who control the Empire from behind the scenes. Remember: The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the Thalmor being the overarching villain of Tamriel. Proving to the Nords that Argonians and Dunmer are not worthless is only attainable by being beneficial. That is how it is with every alliance really.

I loled @ how they said skyrim would be poor without the empire... empire gets most of its silver from skyrim.

and like i said i RP my beast-men as being born in skyrim, its just that i hate the racism in the stormcloaks ( but they act brotherly to me ) , but hate the imperials ( for many reason's, but give them props for being multi-cultural, even tho i've only seen Imperials nords and redguards in the legion no mer or beast races yet )

And even when i done the imperial story line on my khajiit i get told that the argonians still aren't allowed to go inside the city , so their basically still going to be in the same place, weither stormcloak or imperial rule

and yes, many grammar mistakes in there like i give [censored].


and to the person above me, thats how i feel when i RP, like im proving how strong and honorable my people can be ( weither its khajiit , or argonian ) i just wish that bethesda gave more love the beast-men in that sense, so we could actually do it in game.


Off topic but u have to watch this, dude is the man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8aW-6HhMBA

Not if you don't agree with your head almost being chopped off just 'because'.
That and you don't want your province being retaken by a reorganized empire.

If you think about it, the Empire would do more harm to an argonian for instance, as the kingdom of Argonia would be their next target.
Re-colonizing morrowind (taken over by Black Marsh) would be a priority for the Empire after dealing with the thalmor.
Especially if the newly volcanic ground has made most of the province more fertile than before.

^^ off topic but where is ur avvy from man?

This.

I WAS going with stormcloaks, but they are racist, and called me lizard too much (kinda a racial slur).. the imperials dont care what race you are, you are a citizen and treated equally.. so Imperials!

That is a good argument. If the dragonborn helped Skyrim with independance, then maybe they will help with blackmarsh? They ARE honorable..
I still figured, weakened or not, the empire is still the biggest out of the two. Become the NEW emperor in the longrun, the dragonborne may be

That's kind of a short-sighted logic...the Empire is on the verge of dying out for good. Why join a faction that is on the brink of collapse?

After reading people's arguments, the Stormcloaks would be the best choice. As argonians, we can earn the respect of the Nords, and rebuild the Empire. Become Ysmir reborn, and do as he has done. Destroy the empire, and slowly help build a NEW one. History may repeat itself, but that is the way of things..

All races of man come from Nordic stock at some point..

This argument again?


Hmm, to the original topic, I think it is true that the Argonians will probably remain independent forever now... didn't Tiber Septim have to use his giant robot to get them to submit the first time?

So Argonians who are loyal to Black Marsh would probably be interested in who would be the better ally without actually integrating. Who would be more prosperous and provide the coinage, who would be able to give them the best supplies et cetera...

An independent Argonian would go for whatever he felt right, weighing up the factors and considering what might happen to him (after all, he's probably stuck in the middle of things if things do turn out badly) should he make the wrong choice