I'm now aware that the quest ain't done yet... I believe I've just finished the second "chunk". It *is* compelling, I must admit - I have still yet to head out on the Oblivion Main Quest (aside from dropping off the Amulet with Jauffre) because I keep getting sidetracked thanks to mods such as this. My little Breton has been out of prison for two weeks now, and still no sign of any of those Oblivion Gates...

Whilst I don't perhaps have the same disdain for KotN as yourself, I must admit it lacks the appeal of what is (in my opinion) the greatest of the Elder Scrolls official addons - Tribunal (for Morrowind). Having said this, I still feel that EiAe could possibly benefit not by including references of events which may not have transpired in your average gamer's world, but instead by ignoring such events altogether. I've been away from Oblivion for a good while (been building empires in Rome: Total War and it's ilk) so forgive me if I have forgotten the events of KotN, but I don't think there would be anything "lore-shattering" in EiAe if the whole KotN storyline was ignored.


I'd be quite happy to help out however I can, mostly with lore (though I can also write a fair bit) and would be happy to help with ironing out plot/character development. I don't do modding or modelling though (I hate the TES4CS and only tinker with various 3D programs - haven't done any "serious" modelling since the early 90s with AutoCAD) and certainly no voice acting Sending me a PM here is the best way to contact me, since I'm likely to ignore other methods as spam...


I came across the Prieure de Sion back in the mid-80s, when there was one of those fortnightly "collectable" magazines over here in UKia called "Unexplained". Most of it was UFOs or supernatural phenomena, though the series on the Prieure was compelling reading for me simply because it wasn't linked to the supernatural or UFOs. Whilst I haven't read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," I've read a lot of other material (thanks very much to the libraries of the University of Sheffield and Liverpool, as well as the internet and several dimly lit, musty-smelling second hand bookshops) some of which have hinted at something more than what at first appears to be a simple "grail quest". There are heavy hints to links to the Merovingian and Carolingians, the Austrian royal house of Hapsburg and the Catharist heresy of southern France and northern Spain.

Typically of me, I picked up Dan Brown's books merely out of curiosity to see what all the fuss was about (I'm a compulsive book-buyer if I have the money, and have been known to buy complete series of books on the recommendation of people whose opinion I respect). Whilst not the greatest books in the world, they pass an hour or two before bed and aren't all that taxing.

Anti-conspiracists have largely debunked many of the Prieure de Sion myths; nevertheless, it's a fascinating subject.

Regards,
Pauly
Suffering in brass monkey weather

Yeah, I just noticed that! :shocking:

Interesting that the last time I did a search on the net for it a few years ago, I couldn't find anything more than a few passing mentions of the book. Perhaps the recent biography written by his daughter brought it to the attention of more people?

I got my copy for a buck or two purely by chance at a used book dealer years ago. I had no idea what it was, had never heard of Allegro before, etc. I was instantly blown away when I found it. It was a surreal experience for me because years earlier (circa 1986) I had written my honors thesis on Philip K. dike and focused especially on three of my favorite books by him: The Man in the High Castle, Dr. Bloodmoney (great book for Fallout fans, btw), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transmigration_of_Timothy_Archer. I immediately realized that Allegro's book was almost certainly the very same text that led Archer to his doom in the desert (although now I'm not sure the timing works for the real Bishop Pike since he died a few months before Allegro's book was published, but anyway).



I've heard of that one but have not yet read it. You've got me interested in it now, though. Damn!



Yeah, aside from being a fun detective story that ultimately leads nowhere, the parts of the HBHG series that really stuck with me were the first two sections of "Messianic Legacy", which deal mostly with the research of Robert Eisenman. I found those parts to be quite profound. The conspiracy theory stuff is fun, but I always took it with a grain of salt, which is why I recommended following any reading of these books with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%27s_Pendulum.

In contrast, Allegro's work is very different. It's truly shocking, revolutionary, and "out there". He goes so far out on a limb that some parts of the book will stretch your credulity to the limit (and beyond). Nevertheless, there may be some truth hidden within, as Joseph Campbell might say. Interestingly, it seems that enough time has passed now for the initial shocked rejection of his wildest claims to mellow somewhat and at least a few tentative debates of his ideas have begun. Regardless, it's a fascinating journey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allegro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Pike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Eisenman

Guys this might sound kind of stupid...

But I was wondering why you didnt set this quest to only start once Knights Of the Nine was completed?
That way you wouldnt have these problems of the Knights of The Nine events being mentioned before they have happened.

I understand that in making it avalaible from the start you reach a wider audience, but didnt you also say this was aimed at people who have already completed the game?

I'm not attacking you here, just wondering why you chose to not do this.

Presumably because that would have caused a dependency on KotN that they did not want? Or even perhaps because they did not know how to achieve this; that kind of mod de-isolation is not trivial.

Providing an additional version for KOTN users with a requirement of having completed the Knights quest would still be great. Other than that, I think, this is an excellent mod.

tauntedflail,
Thanks for the question. Until the Game the Year (GOTY) version came out, Knights of the Nine was a non-essential expansion pack that cost $29.99. If we programmed the mod to kick in upon the completion of Knights of the Nine, that would require the thousands of people who did not get the GOTY edition to go out and buy more software simply in order to play our mod. That, in a sense, would mean some who already owned Oblivion, would have to 'pay' to use our mod. We didn't want to take money out of the people's pockets for this.

Additionally, of the 13 people whom I personally know, and who have a copy of Oblivion, only three of them owned Knights of the Nine (and none of them liked it). I want to close with a comment from a person who played our mod and posted the following on Planet Elder scrolls: "First, it needs to be noted that this modification, while a bit philosophically complex for most, stands alone in my mind as Oblivion's lone worthwhile spiritual journey. Knights of the Nine was a major letdown for me. It was an uninspiring add-on in which cardboard-like ghost knights hid in a basemant. NON focused on killing, looting and dull dungeon mazes. It was Dark Brotherhood quest wrapped up nicely in (expensive) sheep's clothing."

Enough said? lol. Thanks again for the inquiry. Your feedback keeps us honest.

Well I always feel weird requesting things like this, since I don't make mods.

But is there any possibility that a patch could be made for this so that it does not activate until after KotN? Much like the recent patch that made Wayshrines usable even though you've not started the KotN quest?

Dev - Why am I having a difficult time imagining you doing a master's thesis on literature in the 80s? and I thought In was the aged one here.

Sounds nice. Might give it a try. Kudos to the creators and to newster, for bring this to the light. PS : Nice homepage - A delight to the eyes.

It shouldn't be hard to do in theory. Just put a check to see if the final KoTN quest has reached completion status before allowing the initial AiAE quest to begin. Seems this is a sticking point for many people, so an optional patch should make everyone happy *shrug*.

Anyway, I'm definitely going to check this one out. I like the idea of a more cerebral quest then just running around hacking and killing everything. Bethesda falls back on those sorts of quests far too much and it's lazy and unoriginal IMO.

I'm playing through the main quest now (only took me 3 years ) and while initially it had some interesting puzzle solving and infiltration elements, it now has degrading into go to dungeon, kill a bunch of stuff, get item, come back, go back to another dungeon, kill a bunch more stuff, get another item, oh and also going through a whole mess of generic oblivion worlds a bunch of times, ugh.

So yeah, I could use a break from that.

LOL. There are a few of us old timers hanging around here. The http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=884112&view=findpost&p=12925528 thread has some interesting discussion on that topic.



Agreed. If the team is interested in having a patch like that, I'll be glad to help make it.

dev_akm,
I'm jumping at your offer to help make a patch that enables this quest upon the completion of KOTN. I'm not sure yet how the mod team will go about posting/re-posting it on the various sites, but it certainly would be a good thing to create even if it is initially posted on our home site: http://www.etinarkayego.com/
Whatever makes the mod more accessible, or improves its performance or enjoyment level, is worth taking a look at.
Chris DiCesare
cdicesare@frontiernet.net

OK, I've been Baptised and got the robe but I have no idea what to do next. Will I get a message after a while? How about a hint? TIA

Ok, great. I will take a look to see what the best way to do it would be and let you know what I find.

While you're at it, could you find out what causes the error messages that pop up while loading the mod in the CS?

fragonard,
Wait 24 hours. A message should be on its way to your character.

Thank you. I was hoping it would be something like that.

The error messages themselves will tell you what has caused them.

Ok, I've got some patches and suggestions for you. I'll send you an email with details.

"Script 'EiAMainQuestFinScript' in file 'EiAmod.esp' has not been compiled."

Means that the script will never run in-game. It needs to be compiled before it can work (open the script in the CS, hit the Save icon, then save the ESP).


"Pathgrid for cell Wilderness (28,1) in world Tamriel contains 279 inter-grid connections."
"Pathgrid for cell Wilderness (28,0) in world Tamriel contains 264 inter-grid connections."

Harmless. The CS is merely informing you that this is an unusual number of inter-grid connections. Won't affect the mod/game. Can be resolved by removing the pathgrid record from the ESP, and redoing the pathgrid changes (don't use the CS to remove it, use TES4Edit).


"Trying to get exterior cell for invalid cell coordinate. Values must be between -32768 and 32767."

New one on me. Would be nice if it gave a little more detail.


"Could not find cell (0, -524288) in world 'Wilderness' (00023777) to add reference 'Goldenrod01' (01009DE1) to."

A persistent object has been placed in a cell in Tamriel worldspace, but the cell doesn't exist (perhaps because it had an invalid coordinate?) so the item cannot be placed. Looking at placed object 'Goldenrod01' it has a bad y coordinate. All other coordinates on this object are 0 (which can't be right either), so the cleanest way to correct this would be to remove 'Goldenrod01' from the ESP (using TES4Edit).


"Ref (0102DFCC) to base object EiABaronGroAruk (010546A4) in cell EiAKnightsofCircle (0,0) (01005888) should be persistent but is not."

I believe this is harmless. Base object EiABaronGroAruk is an NPC. The NPC has been placed in cell EiAKnightsofCircle, and this placed NPC has not had persistent ticked, but should. This error would come about if the base object originally had "No low level processing" ticked in properties, then the NPC was placed in a cell, and then "No low level processing" was unticked in the base object. You can fix this either with TES4Edit (easiest way) or in the CS. But to fix in the CS, you'll first need to tick "No low level processing" to the base object, then you'll be able to tick Persistent on the placed object, then you can untick "No low level processing" again. If you don't do it like this, the CS won't let you tick the Persistent box.


"Reference attached to wrong cell for its location:
REFR Form " (0102F005) to FLOR form 'Monkshood' (000336CB) in Cell 'EIAGoldenHouseExterior2' (00003EF6) (36, -2) in WorldSpace 'Tamriel' (0000003C)"

Harmless. A flower was placed in a cell, and then it was moved to another cell. The CS failed to correctly register this cell-change, and still has it recorded in its original cell-placing. Won't impact the game at all, the object will still appear in the cell it was moved into. Can be resolved by finding the object in the CS, duping it, and deleting the original (0102F005).


"Reference attached to wrong cell for its location:
REFR Form " (01009DE1) to FLOR form 'Goldenrod01' (00189D1B) in WorldSpace 'Tamriel' (0000003C)"

Already covered in earlier warnings. Find and delete 01009DE1 (use TES4Edit)


"Trying to access local variable 20 in script 'EiAMainQuestScript' -- variable not found."

Script 'EiAMainQuestScript' tries to do something which doesn't work. What exactly, I don't know. Assuming that variable 20 is the 20th local variable in the script (which it might be, I don't know) then the 20th listed is 'EiAGRSpeechTimer' which a FLOAT variable (which can only be a whole number). The script includes the following: 'set EiAGRSpeechTimer to EiAGRSpeechTimer + .5' which would set this variable to a non-whole number (non-integer) and most likely this breaks it, resulting in the error.


"Unable to find variableID 20 on script 'EiAMainQuestScript' in TESConditionItem Parameter Init for PACK Form 'EiAGGWilliamTravel' (01041E0E)."

AI Package 'EiAGGWilliamTravel' contains a condition which references something from the script mentioned in the previous warning, which is missing. At a guess, I'd say a line was deleted from the script at some point, causing both this and the previous error.


That's all of them, I hope this answers your question

EDITed to add more details to variable 20 error. Thanks to Ismelda to helping me understand this one.

The two error messages are from the same cause. Somehow that flower got placed in a grid location thousands of cells away from where it should be. Far enough away that the game has no cell in the location the item wants to go. I ran into this while poking around with the Brena River UL beta and found the errant item in the persistent objects list for the Tamriel worldspace.

That's probably one of the few CS error messages worth your attention imho :blink:.
1. You can immediately check persistent. You can check everything to be persistent, if it has No Low Level Processing or not .
2. If the game tries to calculate anything for a non persistent actor not in memory, the game will CTD (this is discussed in the Gotcha topic ). If the NPC is disabled the whole time, or is in other way not in "calculation" by having no scripts and no specific AI (but why is then No Low Level Processing unchecked?), then it is harmless. Otherwise, well, it can cause problems.

This was not true for me when I had this warning with Better Cities: City Defences. I found that the persistent box on the placed NPC was greyed out and ticked, so I could not tick it myself. But even though it showed as ticked, it wasn't, as saving, exiting and reopening the ESP in the CS produced the same error again. I had to do what I described to fix this.

Yes, they get auto-ticked. The CS corrects a few very drastic errors automatically, and this is one of them. Just opening up a reference that can only be persistent makes it persistent. You can check this with tes4edit, too - the ref IS persistence as soon as it was opened once .

I appreciate the heads up about this mod - had no idea it existed and quest mods are my preferred favorite - thank you!

Well as I said, for me the auto-tick didn't get saved, so I had to do it as I described.