Drawing inspiration from the Daedric Armor thread as well as my own wishes. I humbly request your opinions on armor variations. In the Daedric Armor thread (at this time it is on Page 1) it is requesting that there be a limited number of Daedric Armor pieces in the game similar to Morrowind. If you want my opinion on that, go read that thread. But it was also suggested that there be several variations or helmet's for the armor. This got me thinking. How cool would it be if (given the new Smithing skill and just our love of customization in general) if there were several variations of each armor and weapon type, each with it's own stat differences.

For example take a Steel Dagger. Why is there just one kind of Steel Dagger in the entire province? Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_daggers Here are just a few from it for people who don't like to click. Kris, Tanto, Balisong, Stiletto, Main-gauche (parrying dagger), push blade, etc. Wouldn't you like for there to be a few types of daggers from that list, instead of just Steel Dagger? I would kill to see an assortment like Steel Dagger, Steel Kris, Steel Stiletto, and Steel Tanto, all with their own advantages and disadvantages. And that is just for Steel Daggers. You may get a whole other list if you had a variation of Glass Daggers. Maybe a Glass Balisong or Glass Dirk instead? Then think, that is only daggers. What about Axes? 2 Handed Swords?

I've also always wanted short and long bows. Long Bows would follow how archery in Skyrim is said to be now, lots of power, accurate, slow speed. Short bows could be the inverse of this, fast, weak, and inaccurate.

Don't even get me started on Armor. This could be beneficial, ESPECIALLY if the armor skills get merged. Why only have a Steel Cuirass and a Thin Steel Cuirass? One protect's less and breaks easier, but is lighter and you move faster. What about Platemail and Scalemail or Lamellar? Why not Leather and Hard Leather? Shields could benefit too. Do you want to use a fast and small buckler, or would you prefer a tower shield, massive, strong and slow? That way if you knew you were going to a bandit lair, you would bring a buckler or a kite shield. If you knew you were going to be fighting a dragon you would bring something with a lot of protection, even if you moved a bit slower.

I know this was a bit of a rant but I just love armor variations. Hell, even if they don't change stat's wise I would like more armor pieces and designs. Because is every smith in Skyrim really making their weapons 100% the same?

Sir, I have much agreement. I say if the developers have the time and inclination, do it. Things seem to be running pretty smoothly up at Bethesda, so whose to say they aren't working on something just like it?

Something I intend to do if they don't do this is get some solid practice doing texturing by making all of the vanilla armor sets have a texture for each material. Even if I can't release it for using their meshes as new items or something like that it will be on my game, that's for sure.

I completely agree. It would be a great added feature, and I hope it's something they implement if they haven't done so already.

This makes no sense. I understand why a longbow would be slower and more powerful, but accuracy? Why?

And generally speaking short bows, perhaps composite would be much more useful for the way that you use them in TES games. A composite bow can be much smaller without sacraficing a great deal of power.

I suppose I should add, I agree wholeheartedly with everything else. Especially armour variations, I would also like to see mixtures of materials. I don't see why there wouldn't be, for instance, a part steel part ebony armour (as I've stated before), for those that are on a budget but want better-than-steel protection. Ebony in the vital areas.

Something along those lines.

GI like what you said about composites, perhaps a more end game bow that is both fast and strong? But as for Longbows this is taken from a book called The Bowyer's Bible:

http://books.google.com/books?id=dQT9krc53isC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=are+longbows+more+accurate+than+short+bows&source=bl&ots=zgW4wC3hB-&sig=8R2dQp4crdOSd6VuGXMY-bAGhsg&hl=en&ei=sVqeTaf1H8atgQeTrsjuDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=are%20longbows%20more%20accurate%20than%20short%20bows&f=false

It's similar to how a longer barrel on a firearm is typically more accurate, but at the same time it is nothing like that lol.

Bumping, kind of want a little more opinion on this.

I always thought this would be a good way to make the game more interesting and draw out the levels at which you start finding the best stuff. While I know they changed the loot drops I'm going to use OB as an example here..

You can substitute whatever for the sword example. Say you have 5 different Iron swords you get a couple of them at lvl 1 then a couple lvls later a 3rd with different stats and then a couple lvls later you get something like an exceptional Iron sword, not better then the worst steel sword but almost there.

These different swords would look different and maybe play to different play styles, a high damage slow sword for the person who likes to tank up or a fast scimitar like weapon that doesn't do as much damage but attacks much faster.

Also if this could even be done (using swords again) Say you have your typical long sword, a cutlass, a chinese longsword...etc. for each weapon have a few different blades, guards, grips, and pommels that would look good in any configuration and let the game randomly (or you as a blacksmith) put them together to make your own sword. This would also make for some basic modding on consoles. That way you have a selection of different types of swords (longsword, cutlass etc) and in each one of those there are a couple different looks.

It would give a staggering variety....thats all I'm saying.

I agree with a lot of this, but I have no clue how they would do the grips and blade styles for randomizing loot. I wonder if there is a way to make a sort of template item made of a few different models in specific places.

I believe this is included. If not more than one variation on leather armor, I believe there are more armor sets total.

I would really like this, but personally I feel like this is more mod territory than a feature. If I were you, I would gather like minded individuals, study up on NifSkope, and start making ideas on how many variations of everything you want. It's not terribly difficult to take an existing item and adjust it a little bit to give it a different feel or some such.

"How cool would it be if (given the new Smithing skill and just our love of customization in general) if there were several variations of each armor and weapon type, each with it's own stat differences."

Not cool at all. Once you start making what is supped to be easy, decideing which armor to wear and then have sub difference you run into an issue of people simply not knowing what to wear. You idea woudl make people constantly refereing back to make sure they are weaing the "right set' or a kind of armor.

I'd love to add visual diffference and style differences to make armor suite peoples desire to obtain a certain look, but ALL steel armor shoudl have the same stats. ALL chain mail sholdl have the same stats. Ete, Etc. Your idea is just scary crazy and really adds nothing good to the game if you start adding complexity to one aspects of teh game where you want to sort out 'what to wear' simpy and easily.

Couple of comments, from a vanilla game perspective:

The OP's list of daggers is a list of daggers from all over the world expanding centuries. A little too much for a fantasy game playing in one small province at one specific period of time, no?

Most Oblivion weapons sets had each one dagger, one short sword, one long sword, one 2-handed sword, one two-handed axe, one single-handed axe, one bow. If we keep up with the dagger example, the vanilla Oblivion had 8 distinctive types of daggers. How many more distinctive types of daggers are needed in a province?

Now, a couple of comments, from the PC-modder-elitist basterd that I am
easily modded. Myself, I made a whole bunch of different blades for Oblivion (some of them I thought so cool I put them in FO3 as well), like the crystal weapon set and armor, I hated the green, so I made myself obsidian and clear crystal versions of both.


There was one mod for Oblivion called Armamentarium, I believe, which added a whole bunch of weapons to the game.

I always wondered why there was only one kind of elven armor, or one kind of orc or daedric armor. Wouldn't they have different versions or at least some differing parts for swordsmen, archers, assassin's even? Also, for non-race-specific armor that are supposed to just be the generic stuff that many different common people make (iron, leather, steel, etc.), I think it's ridiculous there aren't many different subtly varied versions, some slightly better or worse quality than others. It wouldn't be a lot of work to just tweak the shapes a little bet on the meshes a few times, or swap out some leather or fur textures for materials coming from different animals, etc.

Well thats it, some option from your list was in Morrowind but was strangle removed from Oblivion, thats weapons thats was left in game have to small number of parameters options for making more diversity, nice to see some great improvements in parameters of items like
Damage Range
Damage from minimal to maximum so will be more diversity between weapon types from one material there can be blunt and sharp weapons so still stiletto (20-20) and still dagger (10-20) will have more difference, nice to see again such diapason for damage from different strikes, but even for main damage it will be good.
So material actually will cap maximum damage while weapon type will change minimum damage, such diversity can also work with other parameters so dagger will more durable then stiletto, but stiletto will faster and cost more so then less common.
Creating some items types variations in one material group will be nice to see again.

What I want to see and how smithing can work for greater diversity for example such features.
What can additionally done for making Smithing actual crafting skill thats will good alternative to enchanting and alchemy
its ability to change such internal parameters of item (minimum and maximum damage, item weight, item health points, item price, item enchanting space, strike speed, reach, if its become too 'spreadsheetty' such changes can be added by templates-works (learned as perks and can have levels for rising caps in parameters changes) thats work like alchemy apparatus change one parameter of item will affect other parameters as well, there can be used interactive activators and some anims such thats already used by NPC so process will actually looks Unique and not require more of additional work, such template work can be used many times for one item if requirements have been met, and Perks Level cap is not reached (novice can make changes for 1-5 values in parameters, Apprentice can make changes 1-15, Journeyman 1-25 Expert 1-35 Master 1-50
or
There can be additional parameter material re-usability tied to Durability so some materials such as iron can have large value of re-usability and can improved greatly but also degrade fast, while some materials like Mithril due their superiority and toughness can degrade slower but have smaller number of improvements so they really hard to work with them but items become superior and masterpiece in end, for example Daedric armor cannot be forged by mundane way due their supernatural origin, but Master Smith thats also master some magical talents can alter it with some ways.
or
Each material have different smithing requirements for work

For example such templates-works can be applied:

"Sharpening" restore Minimum damage
Restore default minimum damage, slightly lower current durability.
Weapons reduce their minimum damage parameter while used faster then their durability better material has slower rate of such reductions, sharpening with stone will restore item default minimum damage, require Sharpening Stone item and can be done even in dungeons just need some work while there is no enemies around, it basically will replace "Magical repair hammers" for weapons, so difference between blunt iron short sword 1-30 and normal iron short sword 15-30 will be good, while it still can be used average damage output will be different for them.

"Reforging or Repair" restore HP of Item
Broken item can be reforged to restore it durability parameter in Smith, require forge and anvil, leveling smithing and weapon skills will reduce rate of durability damage, since rate of durability damage is slower then before you are will not end in dungeon with broken items unless you are not prepared, planning your trip Before travailing somewhere will be more good then boring mindless robotic trip between dungeons without even comeback to civilized places for rest and sell loot.
Optionally at low level of smithing reforging can damage maximum durability but will train smithing skill as well.

"Item balancing"
Non enchanted item receive Balanced PrefixRise Minimal Damage, Rise Speed, Rise Price of item, Lower Weight but Lower Durability of item, require Sharpening Stone equipment and additional smithing at forge and anvil
Maybe can be applied to armors as well, will more lower durability and reduce weight and armor rating.

"Item reenforcement"
Add more durability to item but also Rise Weight of Item and Lower Speed of item Rise Minimum Damage, Rise Price, require material ingredient for reinforcement, Ingots of Iron or steel or for example Mithril or Ebony, better material add more durability and have different penalty to weight and speed.
Armors increase armor rating and become reinforced or composite.

"Item quenching"
Item harding will Rise Durability of item without rising of item weight and lowering of speed, Rise Minimum Damage, Rise Price of item, item receive Hardened prefix
require liquid fluid for default in smiths used water ingredient, but can be used Oils for better hardening or even Dragon Blood as unique ingredient fluid, so Ebony can really forged with Daedra Blood for creating of Daedric material.
Armor hardened as well increasing durability and armor rating and cost

"Item incrustation"
Adding valuable ingredient like Gems or Pearls and other similar valuables, will Rise Item Price greatly, Rise Enchanting Limit
Incrustation additionally rise Enchanting Limit over material enchanting limit so if item already have 300 additional 100 from few gems can be very welcome, different gems can have different additional enchanting value so thats Rubies and Diamonds as well as Pearls will have more value then before.

"Rune Carving"
Items receive Runed or Ritual Prefix
Nice to see internal parameter for item thats will affect Spell Effectiveness so not number of equipped items will reduce it but kind will, so some armor can be good for casters from beginning or with special smithing preparation some will reduce mages powers, there is can be cursed equipment thats will have large impact on Spell Effectiveness, so mages will stop use enchanted lower class shirt and pants with prison irons thats protect better then Daedric Armor and indestructible with more power then One Ring has like it was in Oblivion.
Received as perk in guild or at middle-high levels of magic and smithing skills) thats can be done for Battle Mages or Spellswords, Spell Effectiveness penalty can be reduced or negated, so we will see more difference between Pure Mage and Spellsword character.
Runed weapon can affect enemies thats cannot be affected by mundane weapons (immune to damage from normal weapons) its just check in CS so can be done with such perk.

Such template's can greatly increase variations of items make them more unique without need of creating great variation of models and textures, but if number variations of equipment will reduced will make difference also and can be have more visuals.

Make Smithing skill actually alternative to enchanting and alchemy, but also have more options crafter characters as well since can have nice cross-class perks so even more options for roleplay.

Make NPC service and guilds more actual and important since such templates need equipment, but also need character specializations via perks number of them limited so characters thats will just level up smithing but not invest into perks will receive only slower item degradation and basic repair and need NPC service for high price (price will lower if player will provide needed ingredients trough) so smithing will not gambreaker because its required money, rare ingredients and/or special character leveling.

Variation! :goodjob:

By the way: is it just me, or does the "Dovahkiin" at the background of this forum actually wear a COMPOSITE set of armor? Nordic iron helmet+leather cuirass+right Nordic iron pauldron (I'm pretty certain that the 'x'-shaped leather straps are part of the pauldron actually, at least seeing from the screenshots we had)+BANDIT FUR/LEATHER greaves/boots? (I recall it's on one of the GI video we saw in their Skyrim feature earlier this year. The blue-ish gray fur is what trigger the thought).

But this is just a wild guess from me, really.

Even if it was just aesthetics I would drool.

Let the drooling commence! :drool:

Ok, maybe not so much the stat differences. I would enjoy it greatly but not everyone likes to micromanage equipment. I can just change stats around later anyways. I have just never found it believable that EVERYONE makes an Iron Dagger the same, and then everyone makes a Ebony Dagger the same, but different from an Iron Dagger. You see some form of variation in Morrowind, where there is Daggers, Tantos, Shortswords and Wakizashis for one skill. It adds a little bit of personalization that I think most people would enjoy.