"Do weapons and armor degrade in Skyrim" is the most likely meaning of "Do weapons and armor degrade in Skyrim, like with their own health." Mistakes happen, though. In his interview with Angry Joe, Pete demonstrates that he isn't necessarily fluent in Elder Scrolls lingo. As I recall, Pete refers to Radiant Story as Radiant AI not once, but twice.

This is why repairing armor and weapons IS immersive and RPG-like.

Because when you walk into a town/city you think about what you will do next and one of those things should be "ok I just got out of a difficult fight with some bandits, better repair my armor and sharpen a few swords"

Followed by...

"Then a quick drink at the tavern will suffice"

-KC

It seems that instead of improving some features, they simply remove them. Disappointed.

I think it's funny that only because Bethesda was too stupid to properly implement a perfectly viable game mechanic in previous games everyone is happy when they remove it instead of fixing the mess they caused. And no one seems to have enough imagination to think about a better system that is actually fun and works.

Archery was boring in Oblivion, you had to fire 100 arrows to kill an enemy. I hoped they would remove it in Skyrim. Too bad they fixed it instead. Takes away much needed dev time for important features like finishing moves. Or not? :unsure:



I hope so too, but I doubt it. Unless the CK is much more powerful than the CS or GECK I can't see it happen.

Instead of what you describe, you get:

I'll just spam these hammers in my inventory until everything is full and continue my journey.

Which is why they should have improved it instead of removing it altogether.

Well I agree with you wholeheartedly actually. If they could make it something other than a ridiculous chore that consisted of clicking a menu button, then I could see its value. My armor doesn't look the worse for wear... why the heck do I need to seek someone out to click 'repair'. I imagine having to model a ton of different armor with varying degrees of degradation would be too much on the plate. I may be wrong, and if they could put it in, then I could see value in repairing. But if the choice comes down to the current system being implemented, or the current system going the way of the dodo bird. I vote for the dodo bird.

Oh, and put me down for finishing moves > item degradation

I'm sure they left it out because they were too stupid to figure out how to implement a repair system. :facepalm:

Obviously there is a difference between ARCHERY and REPAIRING. Which do you think the fans of the series finds more important overall? Development studios have a certain amount of time and money to develop games. Sometimes, things get cut. Sometimes things get expanded upon. Sometimes new things are introduced.

I could see a silly conversation happening like this:

Guy 1: "Huh, well, we can't keep that trashy repair system from the old games. It was just pretty awful."
Guy 2: "Well, alright, so do we cut it or expand on it?"
Guy 1: "Hmm, I know some people still like having a repair system in. Hell, I like the idea of it. I just don't like what we've been doing."
Guy 2: "Do we really want to expand on a REPAIR system. I mean, really? That's valuable development time we could be using to make magic work better (insert anything here)."
Guy 1: "Screw it, it's out. It was terrible in the last 2 games anyway."

I'm not sure what strange argument you are referring to, as I never said repairing armor was tedious. In fact, quite to the contrary, I very explicitly stated the time it took to repair was negligible. I said only that selling loot was tedious, due to the inefficient selling interface. Yet, the poster I was responding to said that selling loot was "enjoying the fruits of [their] labor," while simultaneously stating that repairing their armor "is a chore." Thus, my point was this: how can something that takes a few seconds be considered a chore, when something that takes considerably longer is considered enjoyable? I was curious as to how something that really is tedious could be considered enjoyable, while something that takes no time at all could be considered a chore. The inference there was that the poster didn't seem to mind tedious tasks as long as their was a direct and tangible benefit.

fine for me

1.they just save my time of going to get hammer or repair the equipment in the shop
2.the armor and weapon still looks perfect even theres broken in oblivion,seems pointless to me that armor and weapon degrade
3.i pretty sure most of the ppl would not like to wear broken equipment

Nice rhyme. What's the rest of it?

First off, colddog nailed it again in the conversation above this post.

To answer this question. Chores can take a long amount of time or they can be negligible in time consumption, still a chore is monotonous if it doesn't provide any enjoyment. I don't care about how long it takes to sell a bunch of items. I have loot I worked hard for, can sell it, and use the proceeds to get the stuff I need. That is a big part of the enjoyment of these games and that never feels like a chore to me. I'm sorry, it is not the same thing as..... "O crap I forgot to hit the 'repair' option in that menu again"..... apples and oranges.

selling loot is a hoot, not a bore of a chore.

Make those hammers scarce enough and we have motivation to pay for repair services. Have repair services be "I need to take care of these other items first, so come back tomorrow, or next week", and you have motivation for learning how to repair things yourself, and potential motivation for improving your persuasion skills.

I didn't pick them as major skills, it's an entirely different thing. Who of us did not end up using the athletics skill? Kinda hard to not use it.

What i meant was that i always ended up using them, because really, there's no point in not using the repair hammer a marauder dropped on your gear.

Or you have motivation for carrying around random bandit armor all over the place. Or to continually pick up fresh armor and wear it as you go.

I know where you're going though and I agree that they should focus more on the depth of interactions between skill sets and the worlds reaction to them. However, it is a complicated task and in the end, none of the Elder Scrolls games added the type of depth that you describe. Maybe some day.

Bah needs to be more than that. Need something long enough to put a tune to it.



The main problem I have with that perspective is it assumes we are talking major resources and time and effort to fix the system. Most people generally agree it only had one major flaw: equipment simply wore out way too fast. Thus, you were having to repair far too frequently. That can be fixed simply by adjusting the damage rates of weapons and gear. It's a variable. In fact, mods addressed that very issue in Oblivion. The reason many people are quite flustered by this is because, despite a relatively easy fix, they chose instead to discard it completely. Plus, for those of us who have been with Bethesda for a long time, it's a little unsettling to see one of your favorite franchises start following the rest of the industry sheep by simplifying the game more and more with every release. Some things needed to be addressed. Some things were marginal and really could've been left alone, requiring a little tweak. Taking out armor repair by itself - all by itself, when compared to nothing else - is a minor change. But when we see the growing list of "minor changes," it adds up to something much bigger. And that's what is causing most of this tension.

Okay so taking out armor repair - all by itself, it svcks but its not that big of a deal. Taking the character preview out of the inventory window - svcks, but no big deal. Replacing more varied skills with more generic metaskills - svcks, but no big deal (as long as the experience since compensates for the difference and we still have other ways to vary our characters). But when you start adding up a bunch of things that separately are no big deal, suddenly it starts to become a big deal. So I think what people are failing to keep in mind throughout all of these various and separate threads is that the ones making a fuss about something minor aren't making a fuss solely based on the singular topic of any particular thread. They are looking at everything all in one lump perspective when they post. Yet they face ridicule and smart aleck replies from folks who are in turn only responding from the perspective of any one particular issue, which by itself would otherwise be no big deal.

I believe that for the most part, it is this difference in perspectives that's causing most of the friction we are seeing in the forums right now.

If they were to add equipment degradation they would have to balance it since It was way to fast in OB. I'm not sad to see the chore of reparing equipment be replaced with an option to craft and improve equipment.

I didn't, but that was also because of my experience in Morrowind. Athletics and acrobatics in particular contributed to a major issue we had in that game. It was already too easy to level up, and those skills contributed to it even further, resulting in nearly all of the game's content becoming trivialized before you had even gotten halfway through the main quest; sooner than that even if you were off exploring and doing side quests. Even the main quests final mobs were a joke as a result.

But admittedly I had that experience to draw upon so that I knew to avoid those skills. Of course on the other hand, that wasn't as big a deal in Oblivion as it was in Morrowind, as Oblivion scaled the level of the mobs with the player whereas Morrowind mobs were mostly static.

I think that the cause for friction in the forums is based on pure disagreement. I don't think that it has anything to do with one subset of the population looking at the "lump perspective" and the other subset of the population looking at the "one particular issue". Just out of the things you list:

Armor Repair - Nice, they're taking out a tedious and lame system in favor of a more robust Blasksmithing system.

Character Preview Window - Having excellent character models (i mean, mindblowingly excellent compared to any elder scrolls game) and being able to look at 3rd person view outside the inventory is excellent and more than makes up for it.

Replacing varied skills with generic ones - This isn't even true. The skills now all have a perk tree associated with them which makes them more specialized. Removing Acrobatics (unrealistic, unimmersive jumping), athletics (unrealistic, unimmersive running), and Mysticism (Mysticism spells apprently added to other schools) were all good design moves in my opinion.


It's not that we're not looking at the whole picture, it's that some of us like the whole picture a lot.

I don't see the removal of Degradation for Weapons and Armor as a big problem but it's still a problem because it will make the game easier not harder. There will be no need to have a backup weapon unless you need a 2nd one for dealing with enemies that resist the 1st weapons attributes like for example a Fire Blade is useless against a Dunmer hence why you have a Shock Blade as a backup. The only good thing about this is that harder enemies will be harder and you won't be able to use cheap tricks like Distinigration spells to weaken equipment. Only problem with that though is you benefit the same way, you won't have to worry about equipment failing thus you get some awesome weapon early on you'll be a god on normal difficulty.

Well since you just admitted that they obviously were too stupid to implement a working repair system in the previous games (where they wasted their oh so valuable development time on it)...yes? :facepalm: < you got to love that smiley, it contributes so much to a civil discussion

The whole 'valuable development time' talk is silly. You can justify anything with this feeble argument. 'Meh, the magic looks coool now, so why would they waste time on feature X or Y'. They had a repair system in previous games, they know how to implement the basics and it wouldn't have been a huge deal to improve it. Instead the only difference between weapons is their damage output now. Wow.

And apart from that I will take an important game mechanic that sets apart the equipment I find from each other any day over a flashy, short-lived effect like a finishing move for example that doesn't contribute anything to gameplay.

You don't have to agree with that of course, but seeing that this is the seventh thread about this subject since the info was confirmed 24 hours ago obviously a lot of fans of the series do care about it. Whether you like it or not.

Yeah, all 12 people arguing back and forth on the forums about the silly repair mechanic really means a lot of people care. :talk:

You can make development time seem completely unimportant, but it is an extremely legitimate reason for why they decided to axe a few of the lamer elements. Armor repair was one of those extremely lame elements. Whether you like it or not.

Did you run out of arguments now? :talk: < and another smiley that contributes to a civil discussion



Of course you're right. Because it was a lame element to you it has to be a lame element to me and all other people who don't like what they did as well. And there is no way it could have been improved. At least not without axing the cool looking magic. Who are we to question the authority of colddog04?

If you want a discussion, then let us discuss. I have no personal problem with you or your opinion about the repair mechanics in ES games. But stay civil and don't just use 'it is lame because I think it is lame and there is no way they could have fixed it' as your only argument. Because it is an unfounded opinion and no argument.

Only because it wasn't implemented well; the concept in itself isn't lame. What I find annoying about this whole affair is that instead of utilizing the potential of this idea (see my post a while back, for an example on how to very easily make repairs into a game-balancing system), they just removed the whole feature and called it a day.