Yeah, the whole optimization excuse is totally fake. It's not like, they made the bloody engine or something... :whistling:
But characters and animation are made from less parts = LESS DATA.

And overall ammo counts more in this manner than more slots or something.


... and I still don't know why this is considered as the best way to express your desire of freedom...

Especially since it's a single-player game.

Personally I am glad that they merged the two because it allows them to do something I find more important then an extra armor slot and mixing and matching and that is making more variants of the same type of armor. Yes in Morrowind there were alot of different types but all sets of iron armor were exactly the same. We have already seen iron armor with and without pauldrons. Also in Morrowind/OB due to the ability to mix and match, all of the armor had to be of the same basic construct so they would all work together. Now they have the freedom to make curiass's look very different from type to type. For example the deadric armor :

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1226958-daedric-armor-concept-art/

Look at the long skirting around the curiass and over the greaves, they most likely wouldnt be able make it like that if curiass's and greaves wearnt merged. So for me adding different types of the same armor and the different styles they can achieve by merging the greaves and curiass outweights the lost armor slot and the ability to mix and match, but that is just my personal opinion....everyone has their own tastes and values things differently.

Well MW was able to handle all its slots on an Xbox...
Sure skyrims parts are more detailed but according to you the only thing that matters is the amount of slots...
And going on my thread to say that creating it probably isn't the best way to express my freedom is rather rude (in my opinion), certainly not the best way to express your freedom...

Well then you wouldn't be able to wear pants and boots, same argument as cuirass and greaves.

There are pros and cons to all merges.

Well more variants of the same armor can be achieved FAR better by using the Morrowind bonemold idea, well honestly they where able to make cuirass look as different as they pleased. and as I've pointed out in the OP it would be equally possible to make 'em look as they do if they cut 'em up... if this thread is not dead by then I'll give an example tommorow.... And just because parts of some cuirass go beneath the greaves than it doesn't mean yu should be forced to where a certain type of greaves.

If you're not that knowledgable on the subject then why do you criticize it!? If you've ever designed a map with far too many objects it'll get extremely laggy(especially on the PS3's and xbox 360's hardware). Add in the increased FOV and you definitely need less objects on screen. And who knows, the developers could be planning large scale battles that would only work with such a feature.

Don't complain... they have there reasons and it's going to be a great game. Why question it when you haven't even tried it yet? What does this accomplish? 2 months is not very long to wait (although I'm sure we all agree it feels like it)

News flash: It's already in the game. They aren't going to change it for you.

I know, the truth hurts.

So you are a developer and know the technical limitations and capabilities of all of the different armor types they have designed and developed for Skyrim. if so please share with us.

I read the OP, and I stand by my point. I didn't see any whining in my post, all I was saying is they're doing what they're doing for a reason. It's their game and they're making it the way they would like to play it.

I was pointing out the initial flaw in the reasoning on the part of the devs. My comment is consistent with my previous post.

You said their reasons were silly. That is it. You never delved into the technical aspects of said reasons which others have and found them to be 100% legit. The merging of the armors frees up processing time allowing for that freed time to be used to process the, rather demanding, AI of more NPCs.

Deal with it. Its a good change for the better.

What exactly do you want us to discuss? Youre just whining.
Youve already decided for yourself that their reasons are BS. Ok? What do you want us to say?

Exactly!!! if you wana talk about how good morrowind armor looks then go post in the morrowind forum, this thread is pointless

Knowing a few people in the industry, having gone to SIGGRAPH myself, and having modelled, textured, and programmed using all the latest techniques learned through lectures given by the graphics professionals themselves... studying NVIDIA white papers with Cg, DirectX, and OpenGL... I do not buy this answer. The Gamebryo engine must have some serious loopholes to be able to salvage significant processing time by merging two models into one. Last I checked this doesn't affect the fill rate, transformations, vertex operations bla bla all that techno stuff at all. Don't tell me their rendering pipeline is radically different from what the graphics hardware was designed to do, because that would be plain weird!

The reasoning behind this sounds very shallow if they're basing it on technology alone. It looks more like a design decision to reduce balancing issues and lower the number of assets they have to track. Instead of 500 pieces to monitor on their spreadsheets, they can reduce it to 100.

another one of these threads.

Quite simply because of the fact that it really can't possibly be that hard, we have gloves, boots, helmets, armour, ring A, ring B, neckless... that's 7 slots, so if we had eight instead only one for each 8 NPC would use more, as the verticles would be identical that isn't the problem... so if it allowed Bethseda to have 8 instead of 7... if this was really an issue the game would crash whenever I lead a few bandits into as much as a small town...


News flash: If no one said that they were not happy 'bout something nothing would ever change.

I know, the truth hurts.


I didn't say jack 'bout technical limitations in my post... all it was was pretty much that with Morrowind Bonemold style armor you won't need to create hundred suits out of seven different pieces... and that if a cuirass go beneath the greaves it would not stop it from animating properly (which is the only issue I see here)... (if I recall correctly a few armors went bellow belt point and animated accordingly)


I honestly didn't see any whining in mine either...

Only if the day being saved by a naked hero instead of a merely shirtless one could be considered a "Change for the better"

Would you mind if I add this as a quote in the OP?

Your previous post didn't mention the devs. Your post quoting mine stated that it was wrong of me to assume there were "upper and lower" parts, when in fact it was a comment made by the devs themselves.. I wasn't assuming anything. You were.

Morrowind had less detailed textures, polygons, and overall it had less detail in most parts.

You also haven't really met with more than two or three characters in a single screen anyway...

Oh, and my moded Morrowind lags, where there are way too many characters in one place, especially if they have unique animation.

get over it already

At some point, people will just have to let this one go. It'll eat you up inside. As a really devoted fan who usually thinks BGS can do no wrong, I actually liked having cuirass/greaves separate. I did mix and match armours in MW and OB. However, this is no longer a feature of Skyrim. It's just the way it is and continual threads like this are pointless as it won't change the game. Skyrim is pretty much done and it will still be fun to play.

Take a deep breath, and let it go...

I can tell you one thing I believe. There is a very good chance much of the stuff that was removed for TES V will make it back into TES VI if the consoles get an upgrade in time for BGS to start development of TES VI on them. Todd and these guys are visionaries. They want to cram TES games with stuff till the Xbox 360 explodes then still try to cram in more. Unfortunately, due to technology constraints, they can't feasibly put absolutely everything they want into the game. Yes, if they developed solely for PC or developed a different version (separate from consoles) to utilize the full potential of current PC's it probably could have been done. But this is how they as a development studio have chosen to create their multi-platform games. Is it the wrong method. I don't think so, they still make great games. Does CD Projekt RED have a better method. Not really, just different. Each studio does what works for them and what is beneficial to making them money so they can continue making games.

All I am saying is, what's done is done, so play Skryim until TES VI comes out and let's see what gets included in it. Skyrim will still be damn fun to play. If you think you're upset that things like separate armour slots had to be removed, how do you think Todd and the gang felt when they had to make decisions to start removing certain things. Trust me, these guys want to include anything and everything but even they know it's just impossible to pull off that feat.