Arrival by Ship and Main Quest Delayer, will they work toget

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:35 pm

Okay, maybe "exciting" is not the word.

Anyway, I really like the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11495 mod. Its especially great for testing things where you need to start a new game to make sure everything takes. But when I get this game up and running, I'd like to use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19949. However I don't like how it starts you off as just a basically penniless nobody.

So I thought...what if I combined the two? Checking them out in TES4Edit, the only things that seem to conflict are the CharGen quest (obviously) and the quests that allow you to start off the Main Quest. Now, the CharGen is easy, load Arrival by Ship after MQ Delayer. However I'm worried that the initial "find the amulet" quest in Arrival by ship will kill off the Emperor, thus screwing up MQ Delayer.

Would it be reasonable to just delete those quests from Arrival by Ship, use it for the CharGen, then unload it? I think it should work, and I'll give it a try later to make sure it can even be started this way, but it feels like a good way to screw up something 50 hours down the road when this character finally gets around to doing the main quest.

So basically, I'm asking if this is fairly feasible.

(Also, I wish MQ Delayer had a more interesting way of getting yourself into the Imperial jail than just needing to punch Hieronymous Lex in the face...)
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Stacy Hope
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:06 am

You might be better off with my alt-start mod. Although the Emperor is always dead, the MQ does not initiate at all until you go get the amulet yourself.

Perhaps I could be persuaded to update it with an option that has the Emperor still alive. :)

You'd probably need to fiddle a bit with that Kvatch mod though. Since it expects you to get arrested to run the prison sequence in the normal way.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:03 pm

You might be better off with my alt-start mod. Although the Emperor is always dead, the MQ does not initiate at all until you go get the amulet yourself.

Perhaps I could be persuaded to update it with an option that has the Emperor still alive. :)

You'd probably need to fiddle a bit with that Kvatch mod though. Since it expects you to get arrested to run the prison sequence in the normal way.

Well, what I intend to have happen is that I start using the Ship mod, having disabled its Main Quest triggers, which should allow the ones from the Kvatch mod to work. Once I've landed at Anvil and have grabbed my stuff out of the bag, I save, quit and unload that mod. Loading from there, I should be able to actually do the "get arrested" stuff to start the main quest.

Thinking about it, it should be fairly simple to test if this works.

Now what I'd really like to do is build a new quest to actually give a reason for you to be in the prisons at the time. I actually have some ideas, I may try to work that out at some point.

Edit: I'm not a huge fan of the "have a dream and go find the amulet on a rat at the end of the sewers" form of Main Quest initialization. I get that its a fairly simple way of doing it, but I just find it...bland.
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Sanctum
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:24 am

That was one of the reasons I did mine the way I did. Finding it on a dead adventurer the Emperor sent forth to Weynon Priory felt a bit more natural and allowed you to pick up the MQ in a more seamless manner.

You'd have to check to be sure the alt-start mod isn't killing the Emperor in order for the "he's alive" part of that other mod to work.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:15 pm

That was one of the reasons I did mine the way I did. Finding it on a dead adventurer the Emperor sent forth to Weynon Priory felt a bit more natural and allowed you to pick up the MQ in a more seamless manner.

You'd have to check to be sure the alt-start mod isn't killing the Emperor in order for the "he's alive" part of that other mod to work.

Yeah, that is what I'm most concerned about.

I think that killing the non-CharGen quests in that mod should solve that, but I'm going to test and find out

Anyway, thats not a bad idea, with the failed adventurer.

I'm starting to get a good concept for one of my own now...
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:01 pm

Dunno if this is on topic or not, but I've always sort of wondered when Kvatch was attacked. Was it after the Emporer was assassinated or before? Lore wise what would have been the correct sequence of event? I've always felt that the Wmporer had to keep the fires burning and that is what prevented the gates from opening. So if you are considering having an option where the Emporer is still alive, would that mean you need a Kvatch pre-built before it got attacked until the Emporer dies?

(null)
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Tha King o Geekz
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm

Alright, here are my conclusions.

As it stands, they won't work together.

They probably could work together, but it would require me to know much more about scripting than I currently do.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:41 pm

Dunno if this is on topic or not, but I've always sort of wondered when Kvatch was attacked. Was it after the Emporer was assassinated or before? Lore wise what would have been the correct sequence of event? I've always felt that the Wmporer had to keep the fires burning and that is what prevented the gates from opening. So if you are considering having an option where the Emporer is still alive, would that mean you need a Kvatch pre-built before it got attacked until the Emporer dies?
Yes, lore-wise you'd have to have Kvatch intact if the Emperor is not yet dead. His death, and the death of all his known heirs, is the trigger for the fires going out. Until then, the barriers would be intact and it would be impossible for Dagon to open gates to Tamriel.
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Emily Jones
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:10 am

If you don't like starting as a penniless nobody, then just edit the "M.O.E. - Main Quest Delayer.esp" file to include a bag of money and whatever else you want to start with, owned by the player, right there next to the bed in the ship where you start the game. That's what I did and it works great. I start my game on the ship docked in Anvil, create my character, grab my belongings (100 gold and my lucky enchanted ring) from the sack next to the bed, and then head out to start my adventure.
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FABIAN RUIZ
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:36 pm

Yes, lore-wise you'd have to have Kvatch intact if the Emperor is not yet dead. His death, and the death of all his known heirs, is the trigger for the fires going out. Until then, the barriers would be intact and it would be impossible for Dagon to open gates to Tamriel.
It'd be interesting to see that, but I'm sure it'd be a lot of work. Maybe a Kvatch Rebuilt Before and After variation would be in order, but very time consuming no doubt. As for when to trigger the death of the Emperor, I suppose you could just play the game until the first time you get caught and thrown in jail, and the play it forward from there. Otherwise, you'd have to come up with some other time-line ticker that triggers the death of the Emperor and everything else that's happening. I know for sure I don't plan on doing it, but if someone else did, I think a great name for such a mod would be "The Calm Before The Storm".
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Ian White
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:25 pm

It'd be interesting to see that, but I'm sure it'd be a lot of work. Maybe a Kvatch Rebuilt Before and After variation would be in order, but very time consuming no doubt. As for when to trigger the death of the Emperor, I suppose you could just play the game until the first time you get caught and thrown in jail, and the play it forward from there. Otherwise, you'd have to come up with some other time-line ticker that triggers the death of the Emperor and everything else that's happening. I know for sure I don't plan on doing it, but if someone else did, I think a great name for such a mod would be "The Calm Before The Storm".

Err...the mod I'm discussing, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19949 is precisely that. You start the game with Kvatch intact, you can visit it, do whatever, and then once you start the main quest, its destroyed.
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:08 pm

The reason he brought up Kvatch Rebuilt is because a scenario where the city exists prior to the Emperor's death would already have a full load of resources available to it, and it would be the most compatible solution to the post-invasion reconstruction of the city.

The MOE one is good, I'm sure, but it would present compatibility issues that would be a lot harder to resolve if one were to desire a rebuild mod for Kvatch.
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 1:28 am

The reason he brought up Kvatch Rebuilt is because a scenario where the city exists prior to the Emperor's death would already have a full load of resources available to it, and it would be the most compatible solution to the post-invasion reconstruction of the city.

The MOE one is good, I'm sure, but it would present compatibility issues that would be a lot harder to resolve if one were to desire a rebuild mod for Kvatch.

Err...did you look at the mod? It is Kvatch Rebuilt. You have to have the Kvatch Rebuilt ESM to even run the mod.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Oh, well, then I guess that solves that. See, that was easy :P
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:36 am

Learn something new every day. I'll have to check that out. I wonder how bad the conflict with alternate beginnings would be, because I prefer Arthmoor's range of options.

edit:
Actually, the conflicts would pretty bad, I would imagine.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:13 pm

Learn something new every day. I'll have to check that out. I wonder how bad the conflict with alternate beginnings would be, because I prefer Arthmoor's range of options.

From what I can tell its actually not that bad a conflict.

Actually, the ideal thing to do would be to adjust the script Arthmoor's mod uses, and stick it into the MQDelay/Kvatch mod. They are really shockingly similar.

I just lack the knowhow to do it, and while I could certainly learn, I only have X amount of time in my life right now. Also, I actually did try to fix the script, but the CS (using CS Extended) wouldn't let me compile, saying the IF/ENDIF statement was wrong. Which is stupid, since I didn't change it.

The script Arthmoor used is pretty straightforward, and just needs to be changed to no longer activate the Main Quest, and perhaps change precisely how you get the items. I find the ship in the MQDelay plugin to be far better done, though Arthmoor's has the advantage of giving you several embarkation points.

tl;dr They can be made compatible, but not by me. At least not by me right now.
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Evaa
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:05 pm

I still don't see what's wrong with my suggestion. :P
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Paul Rice
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:12 pm

I still don't see what's wrong with my suggestion. :tongue:

Oh, nothing. I may just well do that.

But its a matter of...elegance, I guess.

(side note, how do you add a large amount of gold to a container? I figured out how to add one at a time, but that seems...awkward...)
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LijLuva
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Add one gold, then in the container's inventory (where you dragged the gold to), click on the quantity, and after a second click when that item is highlighted, the number will become able to be edited. Then just change it from 1 to whatever you want it to be.

I also added a better weapon on the desk for my character, a better set of clothing next to the bed, a sweet roll on the dinner table, and better lighting for character creation.

I can't recommend Main Quest Delayer with Alive Kvatch enough. It's easily one of my top 5 favorite mods ever for Oblivion. I love being able to establish myself in Kvatch and enjoy the city while I play through the Mages Guild and Thieves Guild quest lines. It becomes my home, and then finally whenever I do decide to start the main quest, the attack has all the more resonance.

I also recommend after everything is said and done, installing Kvatch Rising if you can find it (it's become rather scarce). It is an excellent way to see Kvatch get rebuilt after the crisis in a totally different way than how it was before.
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Queen
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:58 pm

Thanks! I ended up doing something similar.

Great success!

http://fencedude.com/Oblivion/MQDEdit.jpg
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luis dejesus
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:07 pm

Hmmm. Poking through the MOE mod and noticed that it has deleted all of the post-invasion rebuilding quests for Kvatch. I have no idea what the reasoning was for that but it means you can't leave this installed if you want the city to get rebuilt later because none of the quests will still exist.

I realize that the mod itself says to uninstall it once the Emperor is dead, but the nature of how variables and quests are handled in the game internals makes this a risky proposition with unpredictable outcome later.
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Cccurly
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:07 pm

My thought on that is that since Kvatch Rebuilt doesn't kick in until after you clear the "Retaking Castle Kvatch" quest (which I just did on my other character today, pretty hectic battle. Glad I turned on "all armor playable" or I'd have had to finish the quest basically naked!), it shouldn't make a big difference.

My plan was once getting out of the sewers, save/quit. Unload the MQD, and the Kvatch Rebuilt ESM. Load, do a clean save. Then install the Kvatch Rebuilt ESM and ESP.

I didn't even install Kvatch Rebuilt on my other character until right before doing the Castle Kvatch quest, and it seems to be going well.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:36 pm

That should be a safer way to do it, yes. The big concern I'd have with it is that if you don't uninstall the KR ESM, it might retain invalid script data and mess things up badly down the road.

Though I'm half tempted to cook up an option with ABR to handle this in a cleaner way where you wouldn't need to uninstall stuff and the Emperor's death would happen as a timed event rather than something only instigated by you getting arrested. Plus if I took the time to do this it would be based on the current version of KR, not the one that was available in 2008 :P
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keri seymour
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:12 pm

Would you be interested in my idea for dealing with the Emperor's death and getting the Main Quest underway? It could even dovetail quite nicely with your version of the "other adventurer", giving the player a choice in how they handled the event, and make the entire thing a bit less randomly nonsensical.

(the beginning of the game is just soooo contrived. It bugs me immensely.)
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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:46 pm

Maybe. If you could restate it again I'd appreciate it. I might just be getting old and blind, but I didn't see any specific plan you had in mind for dealing with his death.

I had in mind to just make it a time-delayed trigger that happens, then you learn of it via rumors, news, etc. Probably, oh, I dunno, a week into the game? Something not overly long. It might even be fun to have the adventurer carrying the amulet actually alive and attempting to make the delivery but then script-kill him/her upon passing through Fort Ash.
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Ross Thomas
 
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