Art... Your opinions on the looks of things in tes : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Was just thinking That, If bethesda knows what we like in their art, They may do it again. Whilst if we criticise it, They might stop. Everything you write here is opinion, so no accusations of trolling please

I don't want to see things like " I liek it all" or "i haet it all" but actual targeted praise/criticism/preferences

For instance- Skyrim had realy good iron armour. Morrowind's iron armour looked too knightly.
For glass- The opposite was true. Morrowind had a most truly excellent design Whilst Oblivion's looked ridiculous and skyrim's "glass armour" Used a yellow metal and the brittle substance known as machalite in a perfectly Even way.. it was horrible and boring.

Spoiler

Skyrim (in my opinion) did best for iron, Steel,Elven,Ebony and Fur.
Oblivion Did well with Dwemer.
Morrowind kicked ass with Native armours. Tribunal Had good stuff, Bloodmoon had interesting nordic armor. It also did the best orcish.

Muscle cuirass are cool. But should not be coupled with Skirts Due to the combination providing to much roman.
Masks are cool (indoril , Daedric faces, Dagoth ur's mask, vivec/amalexia masks, orcish mask) and should be incorperated into more armour designs.
Skirts/Tassets/Loincloth type things... The use of them in Legion armour in skyrim/oblivion was poor. But In most other instances skirts are good. In my opinion, The skirt should be seperate.
Pauldrons- Realistic pauldron's or ones only slightly stylised are good. Very large fantasy/horrizontal ones on non magic characters are bad (Ancient nord, Hlaalu Bonemould, Skyrim ebony)
Decorational cloth over armour and ornaments- Awesome.
Goggles- Cool. (these didn't show up much after morrowind, Im sure you don't need ashstorms to justify such things)
Very thick pieces of metal- Looks bad.
Samurai-esq - Great, so long as it's not a precise copy.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2011/02/skyconcept.jpg
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media//images/gallery/1810/327.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljpp6giLFt1qdjg0ko1_500.jpg
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/1259077-mw_02cb.jpg
http://www.gamingtarget.com/images/media/Interviews/The_Elder_Scrolls_III_Morrowind/conceptart_character.jpg

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljpr09Sqaj1qdjg0ko1_500.jpg

Armours that looked utterly stupid
(being forgiving towards morrowind, The concepts were great, half of the models often looked like [censored])

http://conceptartworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Concept_Art_Ray_Lederer_19a.jpg . Too overt for an assassin. Plus it's skin tight.
http://skyrimforums.org/useralbums/19-jpg.47/standalone?embedded=1
http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/9/9b/HideArmor.jpg - it's simply too cold. It doesnt look protective at all.
All of oblivion's armour.
http://www.x3dmod.com/ftp/images/skyrim4.jpg - You look like too much of a tank , and this is light armour!!
http://www.twncommunications.net/Other/SkyrimTharanth2.jpg

On buildings/architecture.

Lighting needs to be varied. Skyrim and oblivion used a lot more natural fire than morrowind, which had reds and greens and blues. Furthermore, Darkness needs to be present. In all games Thadows are not bold enough and contrast is low, boring the player. Interior fog has been lazily universal and this has not been good for Contrast either.

Material wise- Skyrim used to much grey stone. Oblivion used either something grey or something brown for everything.

Morrowind had great architecture. Im saddened that it didn't live up to it's concept art (vivec looked like less of a pain to navigate) But it did well. I liked it all and would like to see it return. I think Dwemer was more limmited by graphical capability than idea. If dwemer metal was a shiney bronze rather than a dusty brown and green copper rust occasionaly corroded the walls, Rock was marble and malachite and stood out from the metal- It would have looked awesome.

Oblivion - No personality to civilisation. Wouldn't like to see it again.
Aylied ruins were good. They were cold and used lighting well.
--Shivering--- Too sane for the plane of madness

Skyrim- I loved the concept arts for villages in skyrim, I was dissapointed when they didn't happen. Cities are all good,if a bit small.
Dungeons suffered from poor lighing. There was no darkness and no variation on colour (morrowind's great red candles)
Barrows/caves never got claustrophobic. Always too open. I quite liked the narrow hallways made of huge cuboid slabs for barrows shown in the concept art.
Dwemer- Dissapointed. Liked the old dwemer better.

Creatures

Totaly Crazy Animals with impractical design , Like Alit, Need to be toned down.
Real world animals, Like Sabertooths, Need something to spice them up, like a third fang.
Monsters- Magical animals, should be changed from their inspiration. Less unicorns, More bihorns! Minotaurs with four horns and two three feet for each leg (like a tripod) Dreugh and trolls are great examples- Trolls in fiction are usually different from Tes trolls. Druegh are like the middle finger towards mermaids. Monsters need to look like they function though, So three human feet melded together and flying through the air with spinning skill wouldn't work unless it didn't fly and was in fact a harmless starfish.
Daedra, Can look as crazy as anything, can look like anything and can be as dangerous as anything. From a Teapot to an humanoid crocodile to a naked woman to a Cloud. Theme it on a daedric prince and you can justify any of them.

-Trolls, water Dreugh, Morrowind ghosts, Bone-lords, ice wraiths and scrib were all Really Cool in their last rendition and Only need graphical improment in the future. Sloads look cool, i want to meet one.

Dragons, Minotaurs, imps, Mammoths- Need redesigns. To generic. Also- Im against making the most evil of a species look stereotypicaly evil (black, spikey and with glowing red eyes)

.

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:39 am

I liek it alllllllz!!!!1!!

Hehe...just kidding. :wink:

Concerning Environment:

Spoiler

I liked the design of Morrowind's architecture, especially the Redoran stuff. I've heard a lot of people hate on those designs, but I thought they were unique. I also loved the different candle colors. However, the color palette as a whole was a little drab for me. I know it's supposed to be a volcanic island, but there was just too much brown. Oblivion might have had a generic, European fantasy setting, but it was a bit easier on the eyes. I really like Skyrim's environment. It's more diverse. There's tundra, snow, mountains, some geothermic hotspots, marshes....it's not quite as alien as Morrowind, but it has more diversity. It's not all snow, or all grass, or all brown, or all green.

Concerning Armor:

Spoiler

Morrowind and Oblivion had the best armor overall, while Skyrim had some of the better individual armors. The lower level stuff in Skyrim, like Iron and Steel, were pretty good, but like you said, some of it wasn't very protective, and looked cold. But it fit the look of the world and wasn't too bad. The stronger stuff, like the Ebony, is just a bit too outlandish for me. I think Oblivion's Ebony was my favorite, and Morrowind's wasn't bad except the helmet bothered me. Skyrim's Ebony was also a bit too "evil" in appearance, whereas in previous games it looked more noble.
I also have the opposite opinion on the Glass armor. Morrowind's was a lot more creative, but it was a little too crazy-looking for my tastes. Oblivion's was very.....neon. Skyrim's was okay, though a bit bulky for light armor. I generally prefer more realistic armor and weapons over the ridiculously impossible fantasy stuff (And anime armor just drives me up a wall). Daedric is the exception because of its nature. It's allowed to be ridiculous.
I also liked how armor pieces were all separate and could be mixed in Morrowind and Oblivion, though I understand that they didn't do that in Skyrim for technical reasons.
I loved the Indoril armor. I'm also not a fan of those big, over-sized pauldrons, but they seemed to work with the Indoril stuff. It gave the Ordinators a sort of ornate, pompous look that I think added to their flavor. I would have also like to have seen an alternate version that was more like the http://images.uesp.net/0/08/MW-concept-indoril.jpg.

Concerning Creatures:

Spoiler

I'm really pleased with The Elder Scrolls' trolls (hehe..that rhymed). Once they got to Oblivion, they became unique and very ape-like, as opposed to the typical goblin- or monster-like trolls.
I liked Skyrim's dragons, but I'll agree that they were a little generic. That was probably a conscious choice, though, since that's what most people think when they hear "dragon." Since dragons were a major selling point in Skyrim, they probably didn't want to get too crazy with them and disappoint people who were expecting "dragons." They probably could have done more with them, though, while still keeping them familiar. More variation among the different types of dragons. Like and Ancient or Elder dragon could still have a Western body style with the wings and everything, but maybe also have some minor Eastern features, like those long whiskers, or a more Eastern face.
I do like how dragons only have four limbs—two legs, and two arms that are also wings—and how they move around somewhat like a bat when they walk. Six-limbed dragons—four legs, and two wings that are technically also arms—bother me a little.

Concerning Hobbits:

Spoiler

They are short and have fuzzy feet. :tongue:

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:21 am

I love the art direction so far. The Nordic Ruins blow me away along with the Dwemer cities. The holds look believable and scantly clad armor pieces aside, they're beautiful I believe. I love the races though the most.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:40 am

In terms of world design and immersion, I have to give immense props to Morrowind. The different cities, outlandish clothing and armour, creatures, lore; it's just amazing.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:13 pm

It is my opinion that every game in the series has blown its predecessors out of the water in terms of art design. Morrowind's was ridiculous, like something out of an anime or Saturday morning cartoon, but Oblivion went too far in the other direction and for the most part was too grounded. Everything looked like something you could find in a museum. I think Skyrim absolutely nailed the happy medium between the two.

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:45 pm

Environment
I like Morrowind's world design quite a bit, especially because there was so much variation in architecture between Imperial, Nordic, Redoran, Telvanni, Hlaalu, Imperial, Tribunal, and others. This is something that was really lost in Oblivion where so many towns and cities were basically the same and which is somewhat rectified in Skyrim. The minor Holds all look the same, the villages all look the same, and the five major cities do have variation but it's really not that substantial. I guess you could argue that it's because Nords are Nords but at the same time how was Vvardenfell, probably 1/4th of Morrowind, able to reflect so many different styles and Skyrim falls sort of short? I also think there was some genius contained in Morrowind's geography because of how strategically everything was broken up. Fast travel just didn't reach some parts of the island, making them incredibly remote. And then there are so many hills and mountains that Pelagiad and Seyda Neen are literally within spitting distance of one another, but you wouldn't know it without levitation because of the circuitous route you have to take on foot.

Creatures
This one is hard to grade Skyrim fairly on because I really think they put a lot of work in the dragons and in the end had them fall sort of flat. That said I do like the Draugr, and some of the other creatures present in Skyrim like the giants, and the wild life. Morrowind was great because of the great variety it had (minus Cliffracers) and especially in terms of Daedra. Skyrim has like two or three Daedra, Morrowind probably had like twenty, plus more varieties of undead. It seems like playing a summoner in Skyrim is consequently a bit bland whereas in Morrowind there was so much crap you could summon it bordered on the ridiculous, which is actually quite nice. The more options the better I say.

Armor
I actually really like most of the armor that Skyrim has. The Iron and Steel both look great, I personally am a fan of the Dwemer armor (though I wish it were less 'gilded', though not as rusted and corroded as Morrowind's Dwemer armor). It's also probably got my favorite Ebony armor, the glass Armor is a close second to Morrowind's, and I even like the sort of 'crude but sturdy' design of the Orcish armor which I might rate the same as, or even a bit better than Morrowind's Orcish armor. I do wish the Orc weapons were a little less crude though. That said, Skyrim just doesn't have near as much variety! I feel that all of my characters end up wearing the same things...I smith the same set of Iron armor for ever warrior, smith a new set of steel armor when I get to Whiterun, then I eventually upgrade to Dwemer or Orcish... If we consider Iron armor to be 'Tier 1' armor, and Steel armor to be 'Tier 2' armor then it means there's only 1 or 2 sets in each tier where I'd really prefer there be 4-5 at least. It was great having all the miscellaneous half-sets in Morrowind like Dreugh armor, or Nordic Trollbone, or whatever that really added character to the lower levels. But by far what I miss most is Medium armor! I want my Bonemold and Indoril Armor back darn it! And it's like the number one thing people ask for to make a return along with spears so svck it up and give us back Medium armor, Beth. I also like how certain sets of armor (Bonemold) had one type of boots/greaves/chest/and gauntlets but then had four or five different styles of helmet, shield, and pauldrons to further customize your look.

Weapons
Just to add weapons to the discussion, I wish there were more varieties and style available here too. I also sort of feel like some of the weapons have weird shapes too, like the Steel Sword is too short, the Orcish sword looks too unrefined, and the Ebony sword looks over-engineered and almost too foreign. It would be great if when we smithed a Steel Sword we could choose three or four different styles, even if there are just some slight variations.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:26 pm

Character art has gone from worse to better, as with animations.

Some armors in skyrim look like they were out of a Korean MMO (Ebony and Daedric for example), some in Morrowind were over-emphasized in areas like the pauldrons or the dwemer armor. Glass and Indoril was cool in MW though, and I loved the plate armor in Skyrim.

The environments should better reflect the inhabitants. I expected Nords to be as in Lore, a war-like people, some barbaric and isolated nomads, others proud and ancestral, some flowing on the winds of change, but most of all a race with war in their blood. Skyrim didn't represent that, and I'm not so sure it was intentional rather than naturally sticking to what they were good at. The world I envisioned seemed truer and more interesting, though it's perhaps like seeing a book turned into a movie, it'll never be as good. Oblivion, again, a disappointment, the greco-roman-asian Imperials in a jungle environment were all but gone. Though it nailed Aylied ruins. Morrowind failed to meet up in areas too, but a genuine effort had been made and it created a much more interesting looking world IMO.

Skyrim did creatures that matched the environment best. Bethesda has a distinctive art style in some areas, they should embrace it in the whole, make a cohesive and distinctive environment. More of Whiterun and Windhelm, they were great.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 pm

I absolutely LOVED the creatures, culture and armor of the Dunmer in Morrowind. I would really like to see a few armors or something make a return. Like Indoril or Bonemold just randomly popping up in one of the games as unique loot. Maybe toss it on a roaming Ordinator or on their 200+ year old corpse.

I would prefer more armors grounded in realism but creatively given their own twists. I don't mind the pauldrons on most of the armors and such if they are ridiculous or not. If they are aesthetically pleasing and somewhat make sense in terms of protectiveness then they are okay in my book. Chitin comes to mind.

My main concern is that the recent games seem to be doing their best to make the races seem more generic and less unique in their presentation. Making th Imperials look like Romans is a damned stupid move imo and a very lazy way to portray them. The Legion Armor in Oblivion was the best imo. While reminiscent of Roman or Greek Armors to a small degree it was different enough that it did not scream out Roman or Greek to me. Please try to make each race feel distinct. For the Nords they feel like they are trying to make them be that generic Conan the Barbarian look. I don't like it. Put some Nords in some Nordic Trollbone, Iron or Nordic Mail. I swear Morrowind had better looking Nord Armors back in 2002. At least in concept not necessarily practice.

I feel like the TES Humans are being too generic and not enough attention is given to make them distinct as a race, they should not be cut copies of real world races or cultures even superficially. They all have very distinctive Lore and that should be capitalized on. Redguards in Arabic clothing? Imperials in Roman clothing and Armor? Even weapons? Nords in standard very basic Barbarian/Viking affair?

Even the accents are pretty bad. Take a course in Linguistics and how they interact next time please? Regional accents make tons more sense. Not several different accents spread all over the place in some random diaspora. In a couple generations those would have all bastardized into one cohesive accent if they were spread out like that. Try giving each hold an accent or rather each area in future games. Makes more sense and makes the villages and Towns(there are no cities :stare:

) feel more distinctive. On that Note I like the designs in the Cities and loved Vivec City's look but in the future please have cities actually feel close to cities as opposed to Towns.

World design looks top notch but the shadows are inexcusably atrocious. They look completely horrible. Please never again. I understand time limitations came into play and that the shadows had to be tied to the CPU because of the console hardware being more powerful with their CPU as opposed to their GPU but even so the drastic pixelization just looks bad...

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:55 pm

I should have praised Morrowind a little more in my post, but I didn't want to sound one sided in my praise/criticism, there are good points for Skyrim and Oblivion I missed out too.

But I agree with the above post, the aesthetic stereotyping is annoying. It's a little wierd because they have the base for a unique look in previous art yet choose to ignore it in many ways.
And Bloodmoon Nordic Mail is my favourite armour, because of all the exotic elements and details they managed to pack into something as simple as mail armor (if it can be called that). Just look at the thing, and think how great it'd be high res. And bear armor was awesome too, though wolf was pretty crappy. Daedric too.

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:47 pm

Blades Armor is my favorite armor

Glass Armor looks like something Aquaman's bodyguards would wear

Daedric and Ebony look a bit over the top sometimes.

Dwarven armor makes you look like a big gold robot.

Just wish they had more variety in the robes/clothing department and I wouldn't need armor period.

Though my mage character I plan on making might be an Alik'r, and their stuff looks fairly cool.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:38 pm

Was just thinking That, If bethesda knows what we like in their art, They may do it again. Whilst if we criticise it, They might stop. Everything you write here is opinion, so no accusations of trolling please :smile:

I don't want to see things like " I liek it all" or "i haet it all" but actual targeted praise/criticism/preferences

For instance- Skyrim had realy good iron armour. Morrowind's iron armour looked too knightly.
For glass- The opposite was true. Morrowind had a most truly excellent design Whilst Oblivion's looked ridiculous and skyrim's "glass armour" Used a yellow metal and the brittle substance known as machalite in a perfectly Even way.. it was horrible and boring.

Spoiler

Skyrim (in my opinion) did best for iron, Steel,Elven,Ebony and Fur.
Oblivion Did well with Dwemer.
Morrowind kicked ass with Native armours. Tribunal Had good stuff, Bloodmoon had interesting nordic armor. It also did the best orcish.

Muscle cuirass are cool. But should not be coupled with Skirts Due to the combination providing to much roman.
Masks are cool (indoril , Daedric faces, Dagoth ur's mask, vivec/amalexia masks, orcish mask) and should be incorperated into more armour designs.
Skirts/Tassets/Loincloth type things... The use of them in Legion armour in skyrim/oblivion was poor. But In most other instances skirts are good. In my opinion, The skirt should be seperate.
Pauldrons- Realistic pauldron's or ones only slightly stylised are good. Very large fantasy/horrizontal ones on non magic characters are bad (Ancient nord, Hlaalu Bonemould, Skyrim ebony)
Decorational cloth over armour and ornaments- Awesome.
Goggles- Cool. (these didn't show up much after morrowind, Im sure you don't need ashstorms to justify such things)
Very thick pieces of metal- Looks bad.
Samurai-esq - Great, so long as it's not a precise copy.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2011/02/skyconcept.jpg
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media//images/gallery/1810/327.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljpp6giLFt1qdjg0ko1_500.jpg
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/1259077-mw_02cb.jpg
http://www.gamingtarget.com/images/media/Interviews/The_Elder_Scrolls_III_Morrowind/conceptart_character.jpg

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljpr09Sqaj1qdjg0ko1_500.jpg

Armours that looked utterly stupid
(being forgiving towards morrowind, The concepts were great, half of the models often looked like [censored])

http://conceptartworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Concept_Art_Ray_Lederer_19a.jpg . Too overt for an assassin. Plus it's skin tight.
http://skyrimforums.org/useralbums/19-jpg.47/standalone?embedded=1
http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/9/9b/HideArmor.jpg - it's simply too cold. It doesnt look protective at all.
All of oblivion's armour.
http://www.x3dmod.com/ftp/images/skyrim4.jpg - You look like too much of a tank , and this is light armour!!
http://www.twncommunications.net/Other/SkyrimTharanth2.jpg

On buildings/architecture.

Lighting needs to be varied. Skyrim and oblivion used a lot more natural fire than morrowind, which had reds and greens and blues. Furthermore, Darkness needs to be present. In all games Thadows are not bold enough and contrast is low, boring the player. Interior fog has been lazily universal and this has not been good for Contrast either.

Material wise- Skyrim used to much grey stone. Oblivion used either something grey or something brown for everything.

Morrowind had great architecture. Im saddened that it didn't live up to it's concept art (vivec looked like less of a pain to navigate) But it did well. I liked it all and would like to see it return. I think Dwemer was more limmited by graphical capability than idea. If dwemer metal was a shiney bronze rather than a dusty brown and green copper rust occasionaly corroded the walls, Rock was marble and malachite and stood out from the metal- It would have looked awesome.

Oblivion - No personality to civilisation. Wouldn't like to see it again.
Aylied ruins were good. They were cold and used lighting well.
--Shivering--- Too sane for the plane of madness

Skyrim- I loved the concept arts for villages in skyrim, I was dissapointed when they didn't happen. Cities are all good,if a bit small.
Dungeons suffered from poor lighing. There was no darkness and no variation on colour (morrowind's great red candles)
Barrows/caves never got claustrophobic. Always too open. I quite liked the narrow hallways made of huge cuboid slabs for barrows shown in the concept art.
Dwemer- Dissapointed. Liked the old dwemer better.

Creatures

Totaly Crazy Animals with impractical design , Like Alit, Need to be toned down.
Real world animals, Like Sabertooths, Need something to spice them up, like a third fang.
Monsters- Magical animals, should be changed from their inspiration. Less unicorns, More bihorns! Minotaurs with four horns and two three feet for each leg (like a tripod) Dreugh and trolls are great examples- Trolls in fiction are usually different from Tes trolls. Druegh are like the middle finger towards mermaids. Monsters need to look like they function though, So three human feet melded together and flying through the air with spinning skill wouldn't work unless it didn't fly and was in fact a harmless starfish.
Daedra, Can look as crazy as anything, can look like anything and can be as dangerous as anything. From a Teapot to an humanoid crocodile to a naked woman to a Cloud. Theme it on a daedric prince and you can justify any of them.

-Trolls, water Dreugh, Morrowind ghosts, Bone-lords, ice wraiths and scrib were all Really Cool in their last rendition and Only need graphical improment in the future. Sloads look cool, i want to meet one.

Dragons, Minotaurs, imps, Mammoths- Need redesigns. To generic. Also- Im against making the most evil of a species look stereotypicaly evil (black, spikey and with glowing red eyes)

.

Hi jack254. Hope you're doing great.

Art direction in Skyrim is superb. Overall, the landscape and architecture are wonderfuly designed. Armour, weapons, furniture are also very well crafted. Creatures? Not so much. Some lack a certain edge one would expect from monstrous creatures. The animations still feel a bit clunky too. All in all, great job Bethesda.

On a sidenote, repetition is the real enemy here. I can understand why they had to have a modular approach to the whole world building, but it's just too darn repetitive. No dungeon is truly unique and that somehow lacklusters the whole experience.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:40 pm

On a sidenote, repetition is the real enemy here. I can understand why they had to have a modular approach to the whole world building, but it's just too darn repetitive. No dungeon is truly unique and that somehow lacklusters the whole experience.

I think I don't entirely agree here. Oblivion definitely suffered from repetitive dungeons, but looking at Skyrim I feel like most of the dungeons are pretty unique, and many of them are pretty impressive visually. And in general I like the visual aesthetics of the world (I'm svcker for the 'Northern Forest' geographical archetype) are very pleasing. As I mentioned above the actual world design isn't as good as Morrowind, but strictly visually the world is very pretty and appealing to me. And of course the dungeons are pretty well done in my mind.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:14 pm

Yeah, Oblivion's dungeons were like the same five dungeon pieces used over and over and there were only so many ways they could connect. And, not counting Shivering, it basically had two types of dungeons: Generic and Ayleid ruin. Skyrim's dungeons are much nicer; there are some really cool ones that I just think, "Wow! I never would have thought of that!" There are more unique sections and different kinds of atmospheres: Generic, flooded, ice caves, barrow, Dwemer, and I especially like the ones like Eldergleam Sanctuary with the "indoor" vegetation. The modular, repeating pieces are still there, but they're a lot less noticeable than in Oblivion.

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:32 pm

liked morrowinds setting the most. native organic buildings and apparel, with decorative designs. i dunno, stood out more and i appreciate that the dunmer culture still holds symbolism in esteem. which you kind of expect in a world where gods are infallibly real – something oblivion didnt do right, or do at all, really. think it highlights the more magical parts of tes too. giant mushroom-tower growing crazy old coot wizards bickering between themselves. gods or so-near-gods-that-it-doesnt-really-matter actually interacting with the populace beyond a non-corporeal light healing your diseases (gives a pretty good image of what nirn was like during the dawn times, ‘when gods walked’, which comes up a lot)

also thought contrast with the more grounded imperial culture was nice. again, something that oblivion had the chance to do (nibenese/ colovian), but didnt. didnt really find any armour, architecture or actual world designs from ob particularly inspiring either. typical fantasy fair and all-around pretty boring and dull. not much to say here really

skyrim i think did it better than oblivion but not as well as morrowind, or perhaps just as well but in a very different way. higher level armours felt a bit out of place, daedric especially. ive not really decided whether thats a good or bad thing tbh. bad thing from a gameplay perspective becuase it makes me uncomfortable wearing better armour around town etc, but probably a good art direction cause it reflects the fundamentally alien nature of the daedra (and glass armour being made from gods-blood etc.). i dunno, seems to be part of the mundane/weird dividing line mentioned above, just there isnt enough stuff in the weird section to make it fit

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:36 pm

I really love Morrowind's architecture and landscape, but you can't really compare that with other games that take place in a completely different climate and culture. With Oblivion, I loved the forests, and the grasslands on the coast. Skyrim, it was the open Tundra and mountains that felt more real. And it had awesome lakes and rivers, I was really surprised Bethesda made them look that good.

Armor, that's a bit of a mix. Oblivion had some nice and servicable armors, the generic kind of fantasy stuff, but they worked well and looked nice for your average knight or bandit. Skyrim did very well with the furs and leathers, which had always been neglected and ugly before. Morrowind had some brilliant ornate designs, but it also had some hideous gaudy stuff from alien cultures. I'm thinking of Glass and Dwemer here. Still fun to wear though.

The character models, I think Skyrim wins hands down. They fixed Redguard's weird skin tone, made the beastfolk not look incredibly terrifying, gave the elves back their bony thin faces, and made the Imperials redder, soemthing hinted at but never really carried through with the Colovian peoples.

Weapons. Morrowind has the Daedric Crescent Blade, it wins in variety too. Oblivion I feel had some really good maces and axes, especially in the middle levels with dwarven and elven. Skyrim has some decent looking swords, but first person does weird things to the foreshortening.

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:35 pm

I'm likely a minority here, but I'd love to see an Elder Scrolls spin-off title try a totally new non-realistic art style someday.

Remember those old concept sketches from Morrowind where the Bosmer looked REALLY weird, and everything was super over-the-top? I'd love to see a game that looked like those sketches.

I'm not saying I dislike the art styles in the games (except maybe Oblivion... something about it came off as too unoriginal) but a little variety never hurt. Still, despite going for the "real" look, TES art certainly isn't lazy. Morrowind had some amazing architecture and creature designs, and Skyrim brought us some of the coolest looking Dragons in games.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:03 am

A lot of Skyrim's armor, weapons, and clothing design looks way too modern. It's like fashion designers made it. I think that's stupid. I also think the sixualized armor is stupid. Everything else in Skyrim seems fine, but there's just a lack of diversity. As someone else said, actual character models in Skyrim are great... there should still be more diversity though, like 5-6 different normal maps for each face, instead of every person having the same wrinkles and visible bones. The statics look fine and they all work together, but they get boring to see. I also absolutely hate the color/contrast correction and bloom, which is built upon Oblivion's, apparently, and made worse. It should at least be optional. At least it's easy to fix with mods.

Morrowind's everything is awesome in artistic style, although the model quality was obviously pretty bad. But the game was from 2002, so I guess it's to be expected. I say it's awesome because it's extremely diverse, but still somehow works together as a whole that fits as a "Vvardenfall", but doesn't get boring like Skyrim's artistic stype.

Oblivion's was terrible in every way... doesn't work togther and looks extremely generic, isn't diverse at all, characters look terrible, etc. Ayleid stuff was good though.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:26 pm

Am I the only one who really wasn't that impressed with Morrowind's art style? Everything about it looked like a Saturday morning cartoon or anime.

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:21 pm

I can't comment on the armor of pre Oblivion games, but generally between the last two games I liked nearly all of Skyrim's uniforms better.

Fur, Iron, and steel armors just seemed more realistic and 'grittier'
The blades armor was less garish and more BA, same with the Ebony armor which was MUCH improved imo
Glass armor was ok here, nothing great but better than Oblivion
the militia were about the same as they were in Oblivion
I'd say the Daedric armor was slightly improved

The thing that I enjoyed the most about the armor makeover in Skyrim was definitely the Dweren armor--it looked so cool and unique, just like everything else about the Dweren people, so I think the developers did a great job with that.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:21 pm

I really love Morrowind's architecture and landscape, but you can't really compare that with other games that take place in a completely different climate and culture. With Oblivion, I loved the forests, and the grasslands on the coast. Skyrim, it was the open Tundra and mountains that felt more real. And it had awesome lakes and rivers, I was really surprised Bethesda made them look that good.

Armor, that's a bit of a mix. Oblivion had some nice and servicable armors, the generic kind of fantasy stuff, but they worked well and looked nice for your average knight or bandit. Skyrim did very well with the furs and leathers, which had always been neglected and ugly before. Morrowind had some brilliant ornate designs, but it also had some hideous gaudy stuff from alien cultures. I'm thinking of Glass and Dwemer here. Still fun to wear though.

The character models, I think Skyrim wins hands down. They fixed Redguard's weird skin tone, made the beastfolk not look incredibly terrifying, gave the elves back their bony thin faces, and made the Imperials redder, soemthing hinted at but never really carried through with the Colovian peoples.

Weapons. Morrowind has the Daedric Crescent Blade, it wins in variety too. Oblivion I feel had some really good maces and axes, especially in the middle levels with dwarven and elven. Skyrim has some decent looking swords, but first person does weird things to the foreshortening.

I pretty much agree with you, but I think that Oblivion had cooler unique weapons, like Thornblade and Umbra for instance, while Skyrim had the Daedric gift weapons, but for becoming a Thane you simply got an enchanted normal weapon =_=

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:14 pm

Am I the only one who really wasn't that impressed with Morrowind's art style? Everything about it looked like a Saturday morning cartoon or anime.

Frankly I'm not impressed with your art style. That garish pink bunny thing always makes me cringe when I see it! :tongue:

In all honesty though I didn't get that impression from Morrowind. Just because it wasn't 'gritty realism' like Skyrim arguably was, doesn't mean it was immature which is what you would seem to suggest by comparing it to a Saturday morning cartoon or anime. If anything this was the vibe I got from Oblivion, with its overly round, cartoony faces, shocking brightness, and overhaul moral objectivity of good vs. evil, 'demons' invading the world and you need to go around and unite everyone to defeat the menace in a Rainbow Coalition of the Willing.

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:39 pm

None of the games could ever be mistaken for gritty realism, but I would argue Morrowind was the worst offender in this regard. Especially in the faces: in particular, look at the scamp, storm atronach, or the wood elves. That isn't just low-res textures, stylistically it's incredibly cartoony. The lamecorprus was the only creature in MW that I actually found intimidating, everything else was just kind of vaguely amusing.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:22 am

I felt that the Orc, Khajiit, and Argonian faces in particular looked ALOT better and more serious/realistic in Morrowind than the debacle that was Oblivion Orcs and beast races. Of course Skyrim has excellent character design and portrays all races very well artistically. You could argue there are some places where Morrowind fell flat, or (I would argue) didn't take itself too seriously. But all in all I think it's very hard to defend Oblivion as being less cartoony than Morrowind.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:16 pm

None of the games could ever be mistaken for gritty realism, but I would argue Morrowind was the worst offender in this regard. Especially in the faces: in particular, look at the scamp, storm atronach, or the wood elves. That isn't just low-res textures, stylistically it's incredibly cartoony. The lamecorprus was the only creature in MW that I actually found intimidating, everything else was just kind of vaguely amusing.

Actually, I found the Morrowind faces to range from very good to seriously awful, as if everyone got to do one, artistically talented or not. Oblivion's struck me as bloated and uniformly mediocre. It's not one of Bethesda's strengths. Overall, I found Morrowind's to be less "objectionable" because they looked like cartoons, while Oblivon's were just "realistic" enough to be disturbingly ugly.

Morrowind was "styilized" enough to allow the imagination to fill in some of the details. Oblivion filled in some of the details in ways I couldn't get past easily. As for Corprus creatures, one of the most haunting scenes I vividly recall from MW was a Corprus Stalker writhing in pain and holding his/its head in the middle of an ash storm as I attempted my first short-lived foray into the blighted areas.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:42 pm

@ Kovacius

I've had a similar experience. Some of the Sixth House stuff, with the dark red lighting, the stacked chairs...it can all be very creepy. I know I was getting shivers the first time I went to Kogoruhn, and it actually scared me to think about the heck might be going on in there.