I completely agree with you that level scaling is bad in all it's form. But the point I'm trying to pass is that, unless you can tell me that the -2 +2 thing was used in oblivion, there is nothing new coming from the article. We always knew there would be some sort of level scaling. More like fallout 3 than oblivion.

Who knows, maybe that in the +2 (which doesn't automatically means "your level + 2 ") area we'll still get our ass handed to us.

well we dont know for sure. thus the thread. and thus the concern. you dig buddy

That's why I'm not extremely worried about it.

...although I can't quite remove the feeling that some 10 year old kid has somehow played the game and complained about it being too hard, thus that change is included. Irrational, I know, but....

Uhm...then make sure wolves aren't level 30+? Pretty easy fix. Actually no fix at all, because wolves never were level 30 in ES games, just like they should be. There were regular wolves ranging from level 1-3 and the slightly larger (and thus more dangerous looking) timber wolves, which were around level 5.

Make tough enemies look tough. An ogre looks dangerous, a mud crab does not. A marauder wearing orcish armor and an elven claymore looks dangerous, a bandit wearing fur armor and a rusty iron sword does not. Simple.

Well, I will hold judgement until gameplay.

In my opinion, there should be places in the game where level 5's should fear to tread.

I am hoping there are such places.

You mean "apprently" as you wrote originally?

Yes I know what "apparently" means thank you very much.

Do you know what "Stop propagating false notions" means, or am I unclear because of my [censored] english, as you put it?


edit:

I don't have to dig, it has been said by everyone having a hand in the game (not journalists) that it would be more like fallout 3 and that the bad level scaling from oblivion won't return.

They know it wasn't appreciated by the fans so why would they keep it?

I... I don't understand. You're taking the word of the French? The French? Over the words of the people that are making this game. The French? Really people.

It can't be true.

Not this [censored] again!

Bethesda can't be so stupid to give us this [censored] again...

Fixed levels not by monster type. Fixed levels that monsters HERE are Level X and monsters HERE are Level Y. Fixed levels that would effectively keep you out of areas where monsters were significantly higher level than you were, denying you exploration of the area until you were able to take on monsters of that level.

The type of fixed level I mean doesn't mean Monster A = Level X. Any monster could be any level. You'd have some Level 2 Wolves in some locations and then Level 50 Wolves in others. Maybe we're not seeing eye to eye here on our terminology.

After Oblivion I have a hard time trusting anyone in the studio so yeah, I would say race/culture doesn't play much of an issue here.

obviously you dont know what either means. how can one be propagating false notions when they're acknowledging they might not be true :facepalm:

Level Scalling close to oblivion, oh Bethseda, the levelscaling in Oblivion was the badest thing I saw in my Gamer live. I think betheseda make games for idiots. I mean, when you see a deadric ruine with level 2, simply don't go in.

I really can't understand Betheseda, levelscalling can kill the hole game.

i see the confusion.
what people mean by fixed areas and dangerous areas is that, in these areas is where giants are more likely to hang out or this dungeon is a lich dungeon. in these areas the wolves would still be the same level as always they would just be other threats around making them higher level areas. its not the monsters level thats changing its the monsters in the area thats changing

Joder nene, you say "denying" as if the world was a 5x5 voxel box and you were denied 2x2 of it.

If you don't have the ability to enter and survive though a cave situated at the most remote part of the world, face it and go to safer places, improve your abilities, and return later. Or improve your tactics. Or buy or steal some scrolls or potions. Or something. What's the point of having so much gameplay freedom when there aren't challenges to face??

I swear I don't understand you.

Ah.

OK, then yeah, we had a concept visualization snafu there.

In the end, I'm not sure which method would be the best; I really didn't like Oblivion's method since I never felt like I was becoming more powerful. Sure I want a challenge at every level of the game; but there needs to be some baddies who I can fell easily enough to show that I've become more powerful than I was. Hopefully Skyrim moves towards a more just compensation.

Why are they changing their mind this late?

As far as I am aware most people did not like level scaling (fans and reviewers). Did anyone actually asked for level scaling Oblivion style to be brought back? So why are they going back to it?

Anyway level scaling single handily ruined Oblivion for me. If its in, I won't be buying Skyrim on day one and will wait for some modders to fix it. I was being hyped about Skyrim and now they go and ruin it

Care to translate the part we're all so upset about? While the wording and sentence structure may be a bit weird due to the automatic translation I think it's pretty clear what it means. Of course I could be wrong since my french is rusty...at most.



What you describe doesn't make any sense. Why should a wolf be level 2 in one area and level 50 in another area? Who in this thread asked for such a system? What I and many others here want is a system where an area is occupied by giant spiders for example, which are always around level 30 (also for example), no matter what the player's level is. And then there would be areas where you meet wolves and the like, which would be around level 3 for example. But no level 1 giant spiders in one area and level 30 wolves in another area (and vice versa).

Actually, your method doesn't make any sense to me. Are you assuming that enemy levels are set depending on the enemy type? Like if Wolves range from levels 1-5, then no matter where you are in the game, if you ever come up against a wolf, it would be between levels 1 and 5?

Both methods can work well and they both can fail.

Oblivion failed with level scaling and New Vegas failed with fixed enemy levels in fixed locations.

It all depends on how much effort is put into making each of them work. Oblivion failed because enemies scaled considerably higher than the player did and New Vegas failed because they put the high level enemies in all the wrong places essentially making it a linear game.

Why would they come back to Oblivion's style level scaling? There's no excuse, and I'm sure they don't want their game to svck.

Still, notice that not even one post was pro-Oblivion's level scaling system.

If it's 100% hated, especially here, there's no reason for them to get back to it. And I think the article is wrong (wouldn't be the first time, eh?).

Bethesda what is so wrong with a low level player getting his ass kicked in a few areas of Skyrim? Is this game rated E or M?

my dream system would be: each type of monster will always have the same range of levels: wolfs 1-5 mudcrabs:1 giants 15-25 (depending on type), boss characters and unique characters can have their own unique levels. in easy areas around towns you would most likely only see these lovwer leveled creatures and maybe one of more powerful ones that guard towers can help you with. further out from towns like in mountains you might find alot harder monsters like giants and frost wraiths so you wouldn't go here till you stronger. these harder areas would also have better loot and if you manage to get it at lower levels then thats great! thats reward for effort.
its restricing where a character can and it doenst break immersion or confuse the player. and you can always find ways through these areas or around them using stealth or speed. it will make you want to play more and level up more and it doenst stop explorations because theres plenty to explore in easy areas to level up with etc

Eh...yes? And that doesn't make sense to you? Weird. In case you don't know, that's how it was in Oblivion and Morrowind as well. With the difference that in Oblivion wolves would stop spawning after the character reached a certain level. Instead other animals spawned, like black bears or later on brown bears.

Who wants level 50 wolves in his game? That makes no sense to me. Unless they're huge wolves with three heads spitting fire maybe.

Yes, and to a degree, confirmed. Bandits are only within certain levels, you don't get a tougher fire dragon, you get a frost dragon instead, and at higher character levels, where one would normally spawn there are now two, still lower level, wolves.

The system is fine, it was just handled poorly.