[Relz] Arwen's Realism Tweaks : Fallout 3

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:59 pm

Arwen's Realism Tweaks:

Thread #2

Updated 11/06/09: Version 3.0.1 - This is a minor update, but it includes a MAJOR bug fix. Changes:

- Fixed my unconscious scripts that were included in version 3.0 were causing major bugs (this happened when my unconscious scrips were triggered and the victim was killed during combat).
- Completely rewrote the three scripts and they all appear to work now without causing the reanimation bug.
- The unconscious message is now only visible for 20 seconds (I had left it at 60 seconds by mistake).
- This version also includes a last minute change to my Blast effect (from explosions) that I'll let you discover on your own (I don't want to spoil your surprise when it first happens.)
- Made a few other minor changes to some of the other modules (mostly to the Main Tweaks and Survival modules)
- Version 3.0 of my Weapons module added some other changes that I neglected to document, which is now included in the ReadMe.

IMPORTANT!!! This mod works best with a new game . . . but a new game is not required, as long as you carefully follow my Update/Install (and Uninstall) procedures.

My install instructions MUST be followed, due to changes in Object Effects and my new scripts (see Installation section of my Readme).
If you do not follow my Install/Update (and uninstall) procedures, you can permanently mess up you character's stats.
(Also be aware that some mods, even after being deactivated, can leave behind changes which will remain in your saves, which can still alter your game play balance. In most cases, installing to a clean save will correct this.)

Why I Created this Mod: My Realism Tweaks are my efforts to make game play more immersive, challenging, and more balanced. These are changes that I originally created just for my own game, which were designed to compliment the other mods that I am using (which are all covered at: http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO.htm). From the first time I played Fallout, there were a number of things that did not feel right to me . . . which kept ruining my gameplay. I found mods that fixed many things, but there were a number of little changes that I just wanted to combine into a separate mod, which I could tweak just the way that I wanted. My Realism Tweaks are the result of those efforts. This mod is deceptively small . . . it actually includes a LOT of code and it makes some rather dramatic changes to the game. My goal has been mostly to increase immersion, by increasing realism a bit . . . but not so much that the game becomes overly frustrating and no longer any fun to play. I also put a great deal of effort into balancing out the gameplay. For me, this mod makes Fallout both more immersive AND more fun. My Weapons module adds my own unique Blast, Push Away, and Whack effects to combat . . . to add a bit of my own personal immersive fun into your game.

Warning: Do NOT install this mod unless you want the Wasteland to be a harsher, less forgiving place. If you install my Realism Tweaks, you'll instantly have a game that requires you to use a LOT more strategy . . . just to survive. For the best Hard-Core experience, I highly recommend using my Arwen_Tweaks_FULL.esp along with ALL the mods in my http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods05.htm. You may also want to try my http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7674 mod, which greatly slows down how fast you level up in the game.

My Realism Tweaks are fully modular: my mod now contains 6 different esps. Each module is totally independent, so you can use all 6, just 1, or any combination.
Note: there is also a FULL esp version (included in the download) which contains all the 6 modules, merged into a single esp.

The 6 Modules (esps) - [see my ReadMe and the http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods04.htm of my FO3 mod list for more details]:

1.) Main Module (Arwen_Tweaks_Main.esp):

- All the following changes are global . . . they affect your character, and ALL the NPCs, and Creatures:
- Greatly reduces the load that your character can carry (now you'll have to be a LOT more selective in what you pick up).
- Strength now a much larger factor; each STR point above 5 adds 15 lbs; each STR point below 5 subtracts 15 lbs. Default [STR 1-10] is 160?250 lbs; my Tweaks range is 30?165 lbs.
- Your character will be injured when falling or jumping more than 14 feet (and there's now a much greater chance of crippling a leg).
- More realistic movement speeds (for all characters and creatures); faster walking, sneaking, turning speeds; slightly slower running speeds; tweaked jump settings.
- Increase holstered weapon bonus (Think of your this as a sprint toggle . . . as long as you remember to holster your weapon, you now generally be able to outrun enemy NPCs).
- Modified crippled speed penalties: 40% slower walking/running with 1 crippled leg and 60% slower when both legs are crippled (Settings are backwards in the default game).
- Increased stagger chance when torso is crippled; increased Head Cripple penalty; adjusted Combat Knockdowns.
- Increased Head Cripple Penalty: perception is reduced a lot more when you are suffering from a concussion . . . now you'll actually black out for a second or two.
- Makes VATS combat more balanced (and less of a game cheat).
- VATS playback delay was cut in half (so your character has a bit more time to make defensive moves).
- While in VATS, your character suffers the same damage as in regular combat (default damage while using VATS was only 1/10 as much as in regular combat).
- While in VATS your weapons are damaged twice as much as when used in normal combat.
- Increased crippled arm penalty in VATS (melee attacks with crippled arms will cause much less damage).
- Agility is a much bigger factor [4 times greater] in determining your total number of Action Points, with a MUCH greater range in points. Range [AG:1-10] is now 28-100 (default is only 66-85).
- Action Points take 4 times as long to recharge, so use them wisely.
- Repairs now cost 25% less (repairs are now much more affordable than just purchasing a new weapon).
- Bartering Skills are now a bit more of a factor in determining prices, and Merchants now have 2 to 4 times more Caps.
- Doubled the intensity of the PipBoy Light, and light now turns on faster.
- Spent shells from bullets will now last 4 game hours before they begin to disappear.

2.) Smarter AI Module (Arwen_SmarterAI.esp):

- This module totally changes the way NPCs react during combat. If you are used to the default FO3 combat, it will actually feel like the NPCs have suddenly become much smarter. You WILL be surprised at how much tougher combat now is.
This module makes changes to a LOT of game settings, so I cannot possibly cover all the individual changes here, but here are some of the major results:
- NPCs are much more likely to take cover during combat, will reload under cover, search for cover while moving towards you, and will often fire from cover.
- NPCs now dodge much more realistically (are much less able to dodge bullets).
- NPCs open ammo boxes and containers to equip themselves with better weapons and explosives. You'll now be competing more with the NPCs, so these items will now be much harder to come by.
- Most NPCs will now attempt to flee/retreat to survive (much less likely to make suicidal attacks). This also applies to mutants, wild dogs and mole rats.
- NPCs are now much less predictable. For example, snipers will now wait up to 35 seconds before firing (increased from an 11 sec. maximum wait in the default game).
- NPCs (and some creatures) are now much more likely to stop attacking after their victim is rendered unconscious.
- Super Mutants are now a bit more aggressive.
- Sneaking is now much more realistic . . . making stealth game play more effective, but also more difficult.
- It is now easier to remain hidden in darkness/shadows; and it is now possible to re-hide after being detected (but it is still really difficult, once the enemy locks on to you).
- But is now more difficult to remain undetected when out in the open, during daylight, in lit areas, or if your PipBoy light is on.
- NPCs are more alert to your presence, stay alert longer, will spend more time looking for you, and will search over a much greater area.
- When you are hidden, nearby enemies will detect you if you move, and will not need to get as close to see you.
- NPCs will be a bit more alert to your presence (and stay alert longer), and they will spend more time looking for you.
- NPCs will not need to get as close (they will no longer stand right in front of you without seeing you).
- Doubled the detection of noise that you make while sneaking. When running, you will now make 3 times more noise than when walking (default was only 50% more).
- It is easier to be stealthy when wearing light armor (< 15 pounds); but much more difficult when wearing heavier armor (> 15pounds).
- If you fire a gun (or make any other noise), anyone nearby will know exactly where you are (no more picking off enemies one at a time, while they all just stand there).
- NPCs will now respond to explosions from much further away (2.5 times the distance in the default game).
- NPCs will sleep a bit sounder - they will not wake up quite as easy when you are nearby.

3.) Survival Module (Arwen_Survival.esp):

- This one will make your game MUCH more challenging, so survival will become much more difficult.
- We all know that the default weapon damage is too low . . . it really shouldn't take 6 bullets to kill a Mole-Rat.
- The solution has usually been to make the individual weapons more powerful, but that can cause compatibility issues with add-on weapons. My solution is different:
- Base Health was reduced for the player character (by ~20% at Level 1); while HPs were increased for NPCs and most creatures (by ~ 17% for Level 1). The Player Character HPs are now based almost entirely on their END (30*END + 10 Base Health).
- The Player Character no longer receives additional HP just for leveling up. But the NPCs/Creature still receive HPs bonuses at higher levels.
- NPC still start out with less HPs . . . but now just 7% less than the PC (default settings gave NPCs ~55% less HPs). But now only the NPCs gain HPs per level (+5 HP/level).
- The net result is that with END 5, the PC and the average NPCs will have roughly equal HPs by level 5; and at level 20, NPCs have ~47% more HPs than PC. This should make higher levels much more challenging.

- Healthier/Tougher NPCs: their combat reduced health will now be restored back to 80% (default was only 60%).
- Includes Class changes . . . for tougher enemies.
- Increased Armor DR cap from 85% to 95%.
- Radiation Exposure is now 4 times more deadly (but no radiation increase for consumption of food and water).
- Pain now has greater effect on player . . . you will now feel like you're actually in pain.
- Increase in Poison effects from Scorpion stings . . . much longer duration results in loss of 3 times more HPs.
- Weapons now deteriorate 50% slower (except for melee weapons), and armor now deteriorates 30% slower.
- Gun Skill affects accuracy more than how much damage a gun does, and has a bit less impact on how much damage a gun does (but is still a factor).
- Gun Condition: now has more impact on how much damage a gun does; and damaged guns will not fire as fast, are less accurate, and have a greater chance of jamming after reloading.
- Maximum Gun Range reduced a bit.
- Automatic weapons now take longer to cool down.
- Decreased shooting accuracy when arms are crippled (this now also affects NPCs as well as the player; doubled the NPC maximum gun wobble, when their arms are crippled).
- Reduced shooting accuracy when walking or running, and increased shooting accuracy when crouching.- For Melee Damage, skill is no longer a factor in how much damage your weapon does, but perks are sill factored in.
- Strength is now a much greater factor in how much damage a melee weapon does.
- Poor Weapon Condition and having Crippled Arms now have much greater penalties in how much damage a melee weapon does.
- Unarmed Damage greatly increased, and Block Skill increased by a factor of 2.
- Reduced damage bonus during sneak attacks (to offset weapon damages increase).
- Destructible vehicles are now MUCH more durable . . . increased their HP by a factor of 2.5 (and higher ). I also completely redid of all the destructible vehicle damage stages, and even added a few new stages for some vehicles.
- Better MMM Compatibility: During combat, MMM can cause lag (and even CTDs). I've adjusted a number of settings that should reduce both considerably.

4.) Armor Module (Arwen_Armor.esp):

- Increased Damage Resistance for All armor GLOBALLY - armor now absorbs 50% more damage than in the default game . . . this helps to offset reduced HP changes and increased damages from weapons.
- Power Armor only weighs 10 pounds when worn (when carried, there is no weight reduction) - this is meant to offset the Main module's reduced carry weight.
- Maintains 8AR/5WT ratio (AR/1.6=WT) for most armor (exceptions are Power Armor, helmets, and non-armor clothing).
- AR*10=value used for most armor/clothing . . . for some price consistency (But some items have higher value, due to rarity and high health (better made), and their bonus effects.)
- Most armor AR values were left at default. Exceptions are non-armor clothing (reduced AR); Vault clothing (increased AR); and a few pieces of armor that were inconsistently high or low were modified.
- Removed ALL 'enchanted' armor combat skills effects --> Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee Weapons. [Replaced with more logical effects: like increases in Critical Chance, Agility, Charisma, Speech, Perception, Endurance, and Fire Resistance.]
- Removed ALL 'enchanted' bonuses for Science, Medicine, Lockpick, and Luck (exception is for Lucky Shades). [Replaced with more logical effects: like increases in Radiation Resistance, Poison Resistance, and Charisma.]
- Retained default 'enchantments' that increased Repair skill for some Vault Utility Suits and for some Jumpsuits. [Needed in order to keep repair balanced. Logic was that this was sort of like wearing a tool belt.]
- Improved ability to Repair Armor/Clothing: expanded default armor/clothing repair list.

5.) Weapons Module (Arwen_Weapons.esp):

- ALL weapons now do 2 times more damage (GLOBALLY changed to make combat even more deadly).
- Projectile speed increase: most bullets and missiles now travel much faster . . . no more dodging bullets.
- No Tracers for most bullets . . . exception is with some automatic weapons, like the 10mm Bullet (auto) and the Rifle Bullet (minigun), which now use tracers at a reduced 4:1 ratio.
- Impact force increased . . . so that bullets now have a little Havok effect with some objects.
- Tweaked all Explosions in their Force, Radius, ISRadius, and Knockdowns . . . because explosions should be deadly and you should "feel" like something actually exploded.
- Explosions now have a much larger Splash Radius (but their damage multiplier remains unchanged from default).
- Improved Grenade physics . . . much less bounce and will now longer slide like on ice (increased friction).
- More realistic Death Force physics (this was impossible for me to get exactly right, since different bodies react very differently . . . but most bodies should now not fly so unrealistically through the air upon death).
- My Blast Effect is now attached to all explosions . . . anyone within the splash radius will be knocked off their feet and, if not killed by the blast, rendered unconscious for a while. The victim will also suffer from a loss of Perception (PER knocked down to 1), which will last for 20 minutes; and a loss of Agility (-2 points) for 15 minutes.
- My Whack Effect is now attached to all non-blade melee weapons . . . adds ~25% chance that victim will be knocked unconscious, but this relies on the player's strength and melee skills (you will only be able to knock out opponents who have no more than 1 point more STR than you; unless your melee skills are at least 25, then you will be able to knock out opponents with up to 2 points more STR than you . . . and this works both ways). The effect even works on robots. The victim will also suffer from a loss of Perception (PER knocked down to 1), which will last for 15 minutes; and a loss of Agility (-3 points) for 10 minutes.
- My Push Away Effect is attached to all the default shotguns and to some ranged weapons . . . now a shotgun blast at close range will have ~25% chance of pushing the victim away, and if they survive the blast, they will be knocked out briefly (so be careful about turning your back on "dead" enemies). The victim will also suffer from a loss of Perception (PER knocked down to 1), which will last for 5 minutes. [Note: I tried my best to create a realistic effect, but due to the ways that different bodies react to Havok forces, some bodies will fly through the air unrealistically, while others will just fall to the ground.]
- Increased Weapon Repair Lists: my goal was to make weapon repairs a bit less restrictive, while retaining some logical sense of what might be used to repair each weapon. (But you need to understand that I don't really know much at all about real weapons, so this was done mostly through intuition, rather than any actual specs.)
- Most Weapons were not individually tweaked (I may attempt to do more in future updates): the exception are the shotguns . . . which I increased their projectile count, reduced their spread, and reduced their base damage (don't worry, the net effect is still more deadly).
- Increased Burning Effects (after you have suffered damage by flames): now lasts for 30 seconds (default was 5), and now actually causes damage to health of -30 HP (-1*30sec).
- Increased Centaur Spit Radiation Damage: from -50 HP (-5*10sec) to -120 HP (-4*30sec)
- Increased Poison from Ant Sting: from -40 HP (-4*10sec) to -60HP (-1*60); now includes a loss of Agility (-3 points) that lasts for 10 minutes.
- Increased Damage from Mirelurk Shriek: from -50 HP to -75 HP (-25*3sec); damage to Perception now lasts for 5 minutes (default was 10 seconds).
- Increase Damage from Glowing One's Radiation Burst: over 3 times the distance, for 50 RADs (default was 10)

6.) Localized Damage Module (Arwen_Localized_Damage.esp):

- Changes the localized body damage effects . . . in a way that balances out game play, while making strategic hits more effective (such as crippling shots).
- Tweaks ALL 32 unique body types (affects every body in the original game).
- Equalizes the body parts damage effects between the PC and the NPC.
- Super Mutants are now a bit tougher.
- Damage to an arm or leg will now decrease your health much less than damage to head or torso.
- VATS Hit Chance for each body part now more consistant between similar body types.
- Reduced the high chance of the PC receiving head shots.
- Greatly reduces the probability of exploding body parts.
- Robots were also tweaked so that you will now have a greater chance of disabling body parts.

***Single esp Version (Arwen_FULL_Tweaks.esp):

- Included in the download.
- This is the all-or-nothing esp . . . It contains ALL 6 Modules, Merged into a single esp.
- Do not use this unless you want ALL the tweaks; and use this esp INSTEAD of using ANY of the other esps.

Compatibility: I've attempted to make all my mods are completely compatible with all the mods on my FO3 mod list.
- My Realism Tweaks should be 100% compatible with MMM.
- My Realism Tweaks are now 100% compatible with EVE - Energy Visuals Enhanced.
- My Realism Tweaks should be 100% compatible with all the DLC . . . in that they should not cause any conflicts. Most of my mod's gameplay changes are global in how they alter the DR of weapons and the AR of armor. So ALL DLC-added weapons and armor will also be affected by my Tweaks. BUT my mod does not YET address any of the unique items specifically, in the way that it does for all the default Armor and clothing (in areas of weight, value and "enchanted" effects). Also none of the unique DLC melee weapons will be affected by my melee knockout effects. But those minor issues shouldn't have much of an impact on the overall gameplay balance of my mod. [I do intend on eventually releasing a GOTY version of my Realism Tweaks. But I don't plan on making separate patches for each individual DLC, as that would like be way more than I could keep updated.]

Incompatibility:
- Do NOT use my Tweaks with other balancing mod that make changes to the same game elements, as this will unbalance the game play (by making some things too easy, while making others too difficult).
- The Armor module is not compatible with mods that alter the specs of default armor/clothing (but should be compatible with mods that ONLY add cosmetic changes).
- The Weapon module may not be compatible with mods that alter default weapons or default projectile specs . . . although my mod should be compatible with mods that only make cosmetic changes to weapons (the exceptions are non-blade melee weapons, shotguns, and the few ranged weapons that my mod alters).

Load Order: In order to insure that all my Tweaks are being applied (and that other mods are not overriding any) put the esps at the end of your load order. If you keep my esps together, the individual load order between them is not important, as they are all independent of each other (the exception is the Arwen_FULL_Tweaks.esp, which should not be used with any of the other esps).

Known Issues or Bugs:
- If you load a game which was saved while your character was unconscious, your character will likely have to endure all sorts of really weird and humiliating graphic effects (such as their body melting, stretching, falling through the game mesh, or being launched through the air). If they somehow manage to survive this ordeal, their body should return to normal. I know of no way to correct this, as it seems to be a game bug. My suggestion is simple: don't load a game that was saved while your character was unconscious.

Credits:
- Bethesda Softworks, for making Fallout 3.
- IAR80 and taylorsd for CombatEnhanced-Package , which my SmartAI module was initially based on.
- ALL the great guys over on the The G.E.C.K. forums . . . who freely gave of their time to guide a clueless, whining, rookie script-writer-wanna-be.

Download link: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7565

Other mods by Arwen:
- http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7674
- http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7318
- http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7400
- http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9558

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:25 am

I tested Raiders with melle combat, they block very well, and goes backwards when dodging. However i havent seen them dodging to sides when they got mele.

Another thing i noticed is that radius of fragmines are reduced, still im not sure about this, maybe i am wrong...

Will test it with guns combat soon...

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:36 am

I tested Raiders with melle combat, they block very well, and goes backwards when dodging. However i havent seen them dodging to sides when they got mele.

I didn't change melee Raiders, just the Raiders with guns. The beta does include some minor changes that affect the behavior of all NPCs, but melee Raiders are virtually unchanged from my 2.7 update. I am however working on them, and the rest of the NPCs.

Another thing i noticed is that radius of fragmines are reduced, still im not sure about this, maybe i am wrong...

My Realism Tweaks don't make any changes to any explosives . . . yet.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:15 am

My Realism Tweaks don't make any changes to any explosives . . . yet.

I like how that sounds. :hehe:

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:08 am

Quick Question dose your mod reduce how many stimpacks and ammo you can find? Because to me you find way to many stimpacks and ammo

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:37 pm

Hi,

I`d like to have an option with magic properties of armour untouched. I suppose that NPC:s also get to use all properties except science and repair.
And frankly it`s nice to find armour that may help you in the areas you were not able to develop.

What could be changed, OTOH, is that finding and/or paying for armours with magic would be much harder.

Regards, Haldir

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:06 am

Quick Question dose your mod reduce how many stimpacks and ammo you can find? Because to me you find way to many stimpacks and ammo

My Realism Tweaks do not make any list changes.

For the best hard-core Role-playing experience, I highly recommend using my FULL Realism Tweaks with all the mods in the http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods05.htm of my FO3 Mod List. Just install one at a time, and follow my load order guide (in my http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods-order.htm). Those are the mods that I make my Realism Tweaks to work with. I'm using those (and all the rest of the mods on my list) in my own game. If you use my mod with "Real Injuries" (with the Wound System enabled) and "NPCs Use Ammo" and "Ammo Weight," and you'll find things to be much more balanced.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, I`d like to have an option with magic properties of armour untouched. I suppose that NPC:s also get to use all properties except science and repair.
And frankly it`s nice to find armour that may help you in the areas you were not able to develop. What could be changed, OTOH, is that finding and/or paying for armours with magic would be much harder.
Regards, Haldir

If I did that, most of the Power Armor would be unplayable with my Realism Tweaks . . . as my armor mod "enchants" all the power armor, so that it carries most of its own weight when worn.

My Armor module doesn't eliminate Object Effects . . . what it does is adjusts and modifies most of the default "enchanted" effects that are gained by wearing the armor/clothing.
I'm trying to add more realism, but decreasing the effects that just don't make sense to me (or are too overpowering), and increasing (or adding/replacing) those with more believable effects.

For instance:
With the default settings, the Armored Vault 101 Jumpsuit "magically" increases your Skills with Energy Weapons and Small Guns by 5 points, yet it only has a AR of 12, which is 25% less protection than any of the Raider armor.
My Armor module decreases the Energy Weapons and Small Guns bonuses (down to 1 point each), butt it also increases the AR to 16, and it doubles the armor's health (making it more durable).

Another example are the Raider Blastmaster Helmet and Torcher's Mask: they add 5 points to your Explosives and Big Guns Skills ... I can sort of rationalize the Explosives skill gain, but the Big Guns just doesn't fit ... so I replaced that with a 5 point gain in Fire Resistance.

With the default setting, NONE of the Raider's armor is "enchanted" (with the exception some of the helmets) ... my Armor module actually adds some "enchantments" to a some of the Raider's armor.
With the default setting, ALL the Merc outfits are "enchanted" ... and I left al those untouched (for now, as I'm working on another way to address the perks the factions gain from their default armor).

This is only my first release of this module, which I made to balance out armor and clothing, so that it would mesh better with my other tweaks. I'll be making additional changes in the future, as I update this mod.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:39 pm

Hi Arwen,

thx for your explanation. I do not doubt your logic, only think abt. how it meshes with my preferences.
BTW, will you change the added carrying capacity some armours bestow? I hope not.
Some of them come from mods I use, not vanilla.

Regards, Haldir

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:20 pm

Congratulations on the latest update release Arwen :foodndrink:

Staggering excellence of realism! Love how enemies can be aware of the players presence even from afar due to the player making a racket with explosions etc

The stealth features sound perfect and i like how different armors make one have to use different tactics to survive.

It would be cool to see explosive weapons be more lethal. I never did like how i could toss a grenade into a tight area with a raider approaching and not only does he survive but takes no frag damage. In real life he would have been toast along with me if i was close enough.

Thanks for the awesome work! :foodndrink:

bliviongate: :foodndrink:

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:13 pm

I've been playing with the main, stealth and improved AI modules, and there are some problems IMO.

Firstly, the stealth settings outdoors seem fine, but indoors they become quite unrealistic. I was in Jury Street Metro, and raiders down on the train tracks were becoming agitated (presumably 'caution' mode) when I was sneaking on the upper level (note: I was unseen); it's hard to see how even the most clod-hopping individual could make that much noise in reality. Ryan Brigg was also able to detect me sneaking (at walking speed) from within his room, with the door shut! This is on a character with Sneak 50, Agility 8, so a fairly accomplished sneaker.

Secondly, the change in AI settings/detection distance means that in some circumstances you get what I would call 'corpse stacking', a problem that I've seen in other games in the past: namely, if you make a noise, everyone in the building charges down to see what it is. That's nasty when you first encounter it and are not expecting it, but it rapidly becomes easily exploitable - just find a choke point where they have to come at you one at a time and then pick them off at your leisure, thus generating a massive pile of corpses (that does not put off any of your opponents); even better is where they all end up milling around in one location where a few grenades can take practically a whole building's worth of enemies down in one go (this happened to me at the Robco factory).

Thirdly, it's nice to see that traders have a bit more cash now, but I think it's probably gone a bit too far, all the caravans plus Moira have over 1000 caps each now in my game, and I'm only at level 5 (and haven't set up the 'merchant empire').

Finally, I had to put the running speed back to normal - no-one runs at that speed. I know it's beyond the scope of this mod, but it would probably be better to apply a 'tiredness' factor to running, rather than slow it to a crawl at all times.

Otherwise, it's been good fun. With my character having a Strength of 1, I certainly am not carrying around all the rubbish I used to carry! Having enemies look around for better weapons is entertaining, too. Thanks very much for sharing this, I can see what you've done and will try a few tweaks of my own now!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:20 am

... BTW, will you change the added carrying capacity some armours bestow? I hope not.
Some of them come from mods I use, not vanilla. Regards, Haldir

Other than the global change that increases the AR of all armor by 50%, my mod only alters the default armor. I'm pretty happy with my Power Armor increased carry weight settings.

Congratulations on the latest update release Arwen
Staggering excellence of realism! Love how enemies can be aware of the players presence even from afar due to the player making a racket with explosions etc

The stealth features sound perfect and i like how different armors make one have to use different tactics to survive.
It would be cool to see explosive weapons be more lethal. I never did like how i could toss a grenade into a tight area with a raider approaching and not only does he survive but takes no frag damage. In real life he would have been toast along with me if i was close enough.

Thanks! I'm currently working on a Weapons module that makes some changes to how explosions work (among other things).

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:47 am

I've been playing with the main, stealth and improved AI modules, and there are some problems IMO.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a complete review of my mod.

] I've been playing with the main, stealth and improved AI modules, and there are some problems IMO.
Firstly, the stealth settings outdoors seem fine, but indoors they become quite unrealistic. I was in Jury Street Metro, and raiders down on the train tracks were becoming agitated (presumably 'caution' mode) when I was sneaking on the upper level (note: I was unseen); it's hard to see how even the most clod-hopping individual could make that much noise in reality. Ryan Brigg was also able to detect me sneaking (at walking speed) from within his room, with the door shut! This is on a character with Sneak 50, Agility 8, so a fairly accomplished sneaker.

It "sounds" like you must be wearing heavy armor. I have no trouble sneaking, as long as I'm wearing clothing that is meant for sneaking, and I'm careful. You do have to be a LOT more stealthy than in the default game ... which was my intent (and is also why I renamed this module "Stealth").

Secondly, the change in AI settings/detection distance means that in some circumstances you get what I would call 'corpse stacking', a problem that I've seen in other games in the past: namely, if you make a noise, everyone in the building charges down to see what it is. That's nasty when you first encounter it and are not expecting it, but it rapidly becomes easily exploitable - just find a choke point where they have to come at you one at a time and then pick them off at your leisure, thus generating a massive pile of corpses (that does not put off any of your opponents); even better is where they all end up milling around in one location where a few grenades can take practically a whole building's worth of enemies down in one go (this happened to me at the Robco factory).

Well, I can't prevent people from exploiting the changes that I make. In the default game, you can actually shoot an NPC while his buddy just stands there ... not reacting at all ... so you can just take your sweet time, picking off one NPC at a time. Which do you think is more realistic? But I think you have some other conflicts going on in your game that is messing with my changes, because what you are describing is not happening in my own game ... NPCs only respond who are semi-close by ... not everyone in the building comes after me.

Thirdly, it's nice to see that traders have a bit more cash now, but I think it's probably gone a bit too far, all the caravans plus Moira have over 1000 caps each now in my game, and I'm only at level 5 (and haven't set up the 'merchant empire').

Thanks for letting me know about this ... I've only tested this at level 2, so it my be a level up thing ... I'll have to keep an eye on it ... its really easy to change to a lower rate it needed.

Finally, I had to put the running speed back to normal - no-one runs at that speed. I know it's beyond the scope of this mod, but it would probably be better to apply a 'tiredness' factor to running, rather than slow it to a crawl at all times.

I really think that you have other mods (or their remains of them in your saves) messing things up (this has turned out to be what happened to others, who thought my speeds were too slow).

Are you holstering your weapon when running? You have to understand that any movement speed changes also affect the NPC's and the creatures. I've increased the Base /walking speed and the holstered weapon speed bonus, which results in a maximum walking speed that is 19% faster than in the default game. With my other movement changes, my mod only reduces the maximum running speed by 8%. If you're using the default 4X running speed multiplier on top of my other changes, the NPCs (and creatures) must be running around at very unrealistic looking speeds in your game.

How much distant running do you do in Real Life? The thing is that humans do not run at high speeds. A 4-minute-mile is a VERY fast pace (15 mph), and not a pace that can be sustaining for more than a mile or so (even by top athletes). With my speed changes, I can still run from the southern border of the Wasteland to the northern border in less than 10 minutes, so I really don't get why anyone feels that this is a slow pace (other than the game does not truly simulate the "feel" of running very well).

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:17 pm

I'm impressed by your work. I went so far as to delete most of my downloaded mods, loaded more or less your entire list of recommended mods and started a new game. Thank you for the effort! It gives me a whole new experience.

A question: How do you increase the AR? I've tried to figure it out, but I svck as GECK-user.... Does your tweak-esp overwrite all armor, or is it script-based (which could mean it's possible to include ALL armor, even from other mods)?

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:52 am

I'm impressed by your work. I went so far as to delete most of my downloaded mods, loaded more or less your entire list of recommended mods and started a new game. Thank you for the effort! It gives me a whole new experience.

A question: How do you increase the AR? I've tried to figure it out, but I svck as GECK-user.... Does your tweak-esp overwrite all armor, or is it script-based (which could mean it's possible to include ALL armor, even from other mods)?

Thanks! I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your new gameplay experience. :0

My Realism Tweaks increases the maximum armor rating from 1.0 to 1.5. The end result is that ALL armor gains a 50% increase ... including any add-on armor/clothing (as long as it is loaded before my mod). So, if an armor has a AR of 10 (when it is in perfect condition), my mod will increase its maximum AR to 15. This is just a simple value change to fArmorRatingMax, and does not use a script.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:19 am

It "sounds" like you must be wearing heavy armor. I have no trouble sneaking, as long as I'm wearing clothing that is meant for sneaking, and I'm careful. You do have to be a LOT more stealthy than in the default game ... which was my intent (and is also why I renamed this module "Stealth").

No, no armour.

Well, I can't prevent people from exploiting the changes that I make. In the default game, you can actually shoot an NPC while his buddy just stands there ... not reacting at all ... so you can just take your sweet time, picking off one NPC at a time. Which do you think is more realistic? But I think you have some other conflicts going on in your game that is messing with my changes, because what you are describing is not happening in my own game ... NPCs only respond who are semi-close by ... not everyone in the building comes after me.

I agree the original wasn't at all realistic, but now the NPCs are a bit too sensitive IMO. I am adjusting some values to see if I can get a happy medium. (BTW, the only other mods I have running are your reduced XPR and SCC. I started a new game with your tweaks, so I don't think that's a problem.)

Are you holstering your weapon when running? You have to understand that any movement speed changes also affect the NPC's and the creatures. I've increased the Base /walking speed and the holstered weapon speed bonus, which results in a maximum walking speed that is 19% faster than in the default game. With my other movement changes, my mod only reduces the maximum running speed by 8%. If you're using the default 4X running speed multiplier on top of my other changes, the NPCs (and creatures) must be running around at very unrealistic looking speeds in your game.

How much distant running do you do in Real Life? The thing is that humans do not run at high speeds. A 4-minute-mile is a VERY fast pace (15 mph), and not a pace that can be sustaining for more than a mile or so (even by top athletes). With my speed changes, I can still run from the southern border of the Wasteland to the northern border in less than 10 minutes, so I really don't get why anyone feels that this is a slow pace (other than the game does not truly simulate the "feel" of running very well).

The walking speed has clearly increased, whilst running with weapon unholstered certainly feels proportionately slower than in the vanilla game (and is better IMO). Do you think the running in the original game is fast? It seems more like a fast jog to me. I do wish that there was an exhaustion factor, though.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:39 am

My Realism Tweaks increases the maximum armor rating from 1.0 to 1.5. The end result is that ALL armor gains a 50% increase ... including any add-on armor/clothing (as long as it is loaded before my mod). So, if an armor has a AR of 10 (when it is in perfect condition), my mod will increase its maximum AR to 15. This is just a simple value change to fArmorRatingMax, and does not use a script.

Aha! So you're not only a genius, you're an uber-genius!

If I wasn't married already, I'd propose to you!

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:56 am

No, no armour.

Ok, well then you're not being stealth enough. Don't move when they are nearby, and stay in the shadows.

I agree the original wasn't at all realistic, but now the NPCs are a bit too sensitive IMO. I am adjusting some values to see if I can get a happy medium. (BTW, the only other mods I have running are your reduced XPR and SCC. I started a new game with your tweaks, so I don't think that's a problem.)

But what you described doesn't happen to me. One gunshot doesn't alert everyone ... but two or three might ... and an explosion certainly will.

The walking speed has clearly increased, whilst running with weapon unholstered certainly feels proportionately slower than in the vanilla game (and is better IMO). Do you think the running in the original game is fast? It seems more like a fast jog to me. I do wish that there was an exhaustion factor, though.

If your wearing armor and carrying 50 pounds of gear, do you think you could run at 4 times the speed that you can walk? That's what the default movement speed gives you.
My settings are for an average agility, and an unencumbered load.

At a fast pace I walk about 4 miles in an hour, so at a relaxed pace it takes me about 20 minutes to walk a mile. But I cannot run a mile in 5 minutes (the default game running speed:20min/4). At my best time, it takes me 25 minutes to run 5K (3.3 miles) . . . which means that it takes me 7.5 minutes to run each mile, making my running speed 2.6 times faster than my waking speed. So a factor of 3 is still a fast running speed, especially since your character is usually loaded down with gear.

People just do not run over rough terrain at a pace that is 4 times as fast as they walk.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:16 pm

Ok, well then you're not being stealth enough. Don't move when they are nearby, and stay in the shadows.

Being seen isn't the problem - it's clearly noise related. I have adjusted the boot weight multiplier slightly, and that seems to be much better; it's still very hard, but NPCs no longer have bat ears!

But what you described doesn't happen to me. One gunshot doesn't alert everyone ... but two or three might ... and an explosion certainly will.

At Robco, a couple of silenced pistol shots brought every mole rat in the 'cafeteria' section on to me - including the ones upstairs!

If your wearing armor and carrying 50 pounds of gear, do you think you could run at 4 times the speed that you can walk? That's what the default movement speed gives you.
My settings are for an average agility, and an unencumbered load.

Actually, I had the run multiplier set at 3.4, so I guess we're not really arguing about much here after all!

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:20 am

Hello. ^_^

I've only been using the Stealth and AI Modules, but I just wanted to let you know how much of an improvement they really are. Barring a few exceptions, stealth is very intuitive and natural, and the AI has led to many fun encounters - actual ranged firefights, enemies sticking to cover rather than charging madly forward. It's wonderful, thank you.

I thought I might try and comment on a few perceived quirks... I've included my load order, just incase there are any contributing conflicts that I am not aware of.

[X] Fallout3.esm[X] Anchorage.esm[X] ThePitt.esm[X] BrokenSteel.esm[X] PointLookout.esm[X] Zeta.esm[X] CALIBR.esm[X] CRAFT.esm[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esm[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm[X] FaceMe.esm[X] RoadWardens.esm[X] HairPack.esm[X] StreetLights.esm[X] DarNifiedUIF3.esp[X] DUIF3Extras.esp[X] BoSPatrols.esp[X] SniperZooming.esp[X] Overhead3PCamera.esp[X] FaceMe.esp[X] FaceMe-Broken Steel.esp[X] CALIBRxMerchant.esp[X] DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esp[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp[X] CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - UFP Support.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Alternate Travel.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Lvl 30 Balance.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Worn Weapons.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Power Armor Revamp.esp[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Harsher Wasteland.esp[X] FaceMe-FWE.esp[X] WeaponModKits.esp[X] WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp[X] WeaponModKits - FWE Optional Worn Weapons.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp[X] FaceMe-MMM.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp[X] FaceMe-MMM Tougher Traders.esp[X] RoadWardens.esp[X] RoadWardensMMM.esp[X] Arwen_Stealth.esp[X] Arwen_SmartAI.esp[X] DelayThePitt.esp[X] DelayAnchorage.esp[X] DelaySteel.esp[X] delaypl.esp[X] delayzeta.esp[X] GalaxyNewsRadioFix[S].esp[X] 7_HolsterForHandGunsV1_1.esp[X] Less_Blood.esp[X] BlackWolf Backpack.esp[X] Rivet City Realignment.esp[X] Fellout-Full.esp[X] Fellout-Anchorage.esp[X] Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp[X] Fellout-PointLookout.esp[X] Fellout-pipboylight.esp[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp[X] Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp[X] FireLightFix.esp[X] D.C. Confidential.esp[X] eyes_hairpack_en.esp[X] F3Eyelashes.esp[X] FPS Grenade Hotkey.esp[X] MokuPatch.esp

Stealth,
I am not sure how much control you have over the original game's stealth system, and I assume a lot of these likely can't be helped.
- Missed silenced shots seem quite loud. Enemies will rush to cluster where they impact, from a rather wide area. I wonder if it would make more sense for them to simply be alerted and begin searching in that direction?
- Placing mines seems to draw far too much attention, almost as much as unsilenced firearms.
- Lasers seem to be partially silenced, compared to a 10mm Pistol or Hunting Rifle; which makes sense if picking enemies off out-of-sight, but it feels a little too forgiving to miss with a neon arrow betraying my position.
- Audio doesn't seem to discriminate against elevation, or other obstructions such as walls (but that is less noticeable). It can feel unrealistically hard to sneak by enemies directly above or below me.
- As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any accounting for encumbrance. It's not a huge issue or anything, but it would work very well with a container-backpack mod, methinks. ^_^

AI,
I haven't experienced any problems with this at all, so far. All I really wanted to comment on was whether it would be possible to give more of a sense of self-preservation where appropriate.
- Melee opponents still seem to charge forward in a frenzy, which is fine for beasts, and probably Super Mutants, but feels a little 'off' with Raiders and other humans. Is there any way to make them less inclined to engage in a firefight with little more than a wooden spoon? Instead attempting to flank, sticking to cover, preferably attempting to sneak or just hang back, cowering, scrambling for the nearest weapon?
- Similarly, ranged opponents will charge from cover, giving chase when they lose sight of me. It feels a little abuseable, as I can just duck back behind a wall and ready my shotgun as the lemmings line up around the corner. Would it be possible to have them behave more defensively, either hanging back, happy to have driven me off, or cautiously skip from cover to cover as they approach or flank, rather than making a B-line to my last known location?

Edit: Pardon my engrish. ^_^

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:54 pm

Thanks so much for the feedback!

This is what I need the most, as I'm only one person and it is impossible for me to test out everything that my mod changes, at different levels, at all the game locations, with all the various weapons. I generally test in just a couple of locations, mostly in areas where there are a lot of Raiders.

Your load order seems fine, but I'm not familiar with all the mods on your list ... you might try loading my two modules last (just to be sure that nothing else is overriding them).

The issues you have described are things that I would like to improve, but haven't had much success at. Then being detected while being on different floor levels is a game quirk that I would love to fix, but close proximity seems to override the fact that their are solid walls and floors between me and the enemy.

But I have been doing what I can within the game limitations to improve my Stealth module , but stealth and AI awareness/combat are extremely difficult to balance (at least for me). My Stealth module is particularly sensitive to even very minor changes . . . where making a change in one setting can create a problem in another area . . . so it takes a LOT of play testing after introducing just one tiny change. My next update includes a slight reduction in the Sound/LOS multiplier (which is one of those very touchy settings), which makes it slightly easier to avoid detection.

I really don't know how to fix the "silent" weapons sound/awareness issue. I also agree on the laser visibility, but haven't yet discovered any way to make visible laser rays more noticeable to the NPCs. The placing mines high awareness is likely due to a game setting that permits NPCs to be cautious of mines/explosives by using a distance calculation. I hesitate to lower the distance value, as NPCs already seem to stumble into mines way too easily.

The only encumbrance/detection relationship that I can find is tied to armor weight, which is already part of my mod. I think it might be possible to write a script that would factor in your load into how much noise you make (but I'm still very much a rookie at writing scripts).

I've been trying to fix most of the AI issues that you details, and have had very limited success. Many seem to be impossible to alter directly, but other changes seem to have somewhat a trickling down effect (sort of like stealth, where one change in one area often changes/messes up other areas in unexpected ways). Version 2.8, which is nearly complete (one more bug to squash), includes a pretty big rewrite/update to my SmarterAI module. It doesn't directly fix many of the issues you mentioned, but it does somewhat reduce many of them, by speeding up the AI decision timing a bit . . . making AI combat a bit faster (and more challenging). The AI combat now "feels" much more realistic to me . . . it will be interesting to hear what others think of my changes.

As always, I'm open to any suggestion from anyone on how to perhaps fix/reduce any of the above issues (or any others).

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:40 pm

Just a quick post to let you guys know that I'm still trying to complete Version 2.8, and it really is nearly ready (I promise). I was optimistically planning on having this done late last Friday, but then I ran into a couple of really tough bugs that took me most of the weekend to chase down and fix. (This is what I get for trying to make too many changes in a single update.)

Version 2.8 includes a pretty big rewrite/update to my SmarterAI module; expands repair for the Armor module (plus a number of minor tweaks to some of the armor); adds a new Weapons module (which also includes expanded repair of weapons); includes a major update of my Main Tweaks module (with a complete redo of PC/NPC HP calculations); and a bunch of other tweaks/additions.

I completed my updates in the modules last night and made the new FULL merged version this morning. As one last test (just to make sure things are behaving), I just completed my latest play testing with the FULL version, and everything seems to work great! So all I have to do now is rewrite the ReadMe (which takes me forever), zip it all into an archive, and upload it.

The only problem is that I won't have any more free time until much later today. But I should be able to get Version 2.8 uploaded sometime this evening.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:43 pm

Just a quick post to let you guys know that I'm still trying to complete Version 2.8, and it really is nearly ready (I promise). I was optimistically planning on having this done late last Friday, but then I ran into a couple of really tough bugs that took me most of the weekend to chase down and fix. (This is what I get for trying to make too many changes in a single update.)

Version 2.8 includes a pretty big rewrite/update to my SmarterAI module; expands repair for the Armor module (plus a number of minor tweaks to some of the armor); adds a new Weapons module (which also includes expanded repair of weapons); includes a major update of my Main Tweaks module (with a complete redo of PC/NPC HP calculations); and a bunch of other tweaks/additions.

I completed my updates in the modules last night and made the new FULL merged version this morning. As one last test (just to make sure things are behaving), I just completed my latest play testing with the FULL version, and everything seems to work great! So all I have to do now is rewrite the ReadMe (which takes me forever), zip it all into an archive, and upload it.

The only problem is that I won't have any more free time until much later today. But I should be able to get Version 2.8 uploaded sometime this evening.

Great to hear this Arwen, i am thirlled to see the changes, and test them

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:06 am

- Placing mines seems to draw far too much attention, almost as much as unsilenced firearms.

I had this problem too. I could sneak to a location undetected and then have an NPC go straight to 'danger' level as soon as I placed the mine; this seems quite contrary to reality, where I would expect to make more noise moving around than in carefully placing a mine (notwithstanding the animation that has the player tossing the mine to the ground!). To counter it, I just reduced the noise multiplier for 'silent' actions.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:13 am

I had this problem too. I could sneak to a location undetected and then have an NPC go straight to 'danger' level as soon as I placed the mine; this seems quite contrary to reality, where I would expect to make more noise moving around than in carefully placing a mine (notwithstanding the animation that has the player tossing the mine to the ground!). To counter it, I just reduced the noise multiplier for 'silent' actions.

Are you referring to "iSoundLevelSilent" ?
Version 2.8 lowers the default value from 10 to 8, which seems to help a bit (really hard to tell). If you're making changes to another setting (or had good results with a different value), please let me know, as I would like to correct this issue.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:08 am

Just a quick post to let you guys know that I'm still trying to complete Version 2.8, and it really is nearly ready (I promise). I was optimistically planning on having this done late last Friday, but then I ran into a couple of really tough bugs that took me most of the weekend to chase down and fix. (This is what I get for trying to make too many changes in a single update.)

Version 2.8 includes a pretty big rewrite/update to my SmarterAI module; expands repair for the Armor module (plus a number of minor tweaks to some of the armor); adds a new Weapons module (which also includes expanded repair of weapons); includes a major update of my Main Tweaks module (with a complete redo of PC/NPC HP calculations); and a bunch of other tweaks/additions.

I completed my updates in the modules last night and made the new FULL merged version this morning. As one last test (just to make sure things are behaving), I just completed my latest play testing with the FULL version, and everything seems to work great! So all I have to do now is rewrite the ReadMe (which takes me forever), zip it all into an archive, and upload it.

The only problem is that I won't have any more free time until much later today. But I should be able to get Version 2.8 uploaded sometime this evening.

Look forward to the update. It is going places.