Arwen . . . what do you mean by this? What lighting needs to be accounted for that isn't already by the gamesettings? just curious what you're thoughts are on this.

Also, I posted this in gurachn's sneak mod thread, but I found a way to get detection levels in game. Open up the console, select an NPC, and type:

getdetected player

Or, if you write down the REF ID displayed when you click on an NPC, you can use refID.getdetected player which is helpful for testing line of sight related factors. Needless to say, the result of that command displays the detection value from the actor to the player, along with a report of, I believe, the "targets" light level (in this case the player). Stand in total darkness, the value will be around 0-5, stand in a well lit area, and it pushes upwards of 100.

Hope that this is helpful for your tweaking =)

Hey Mez,

What I would LOVE to be able to do is take those light levels (for where your player is) and use them to directly script sneak penalties/bonuses. I know of no possible way to do this. (If anyone does . . . please enlighten me!)

I did this very indirectly and in very arbitrary way with my outdoor sneak penalties/bonuses. Since I could not svck the game light levels (the 0 to 100 values) into my script, I spent a lot of time viewing the lighting changes for various times of day (by anolyzing screenshots). Then I created my own daylight multiplier that I applied as a sneak penalty for 13 different time periods (with the middle of the night as my base point). And then I created a weather modifier that checks for the current weather and applies a sneak bonus when the weather would likely decrease visibility.

So you want to get the current light level for the player, and use that value to determine a bonus or penalty to your sneak skill?

The thing is . . . the formula is already taking light into account, and if you do the above, you're effectively double counting the light factor (since it's part of the base detection formula and would now modify your sneak skill, also part of the formula) and you're not accurately reflecting your sneak ability (since a poor sneaking individual can hide in the dark even if they might be terrible at sneaking / loud / etc . . . )

I think it might make more sense in the outdoor scenarios you describe, but even then, I don't know. What would actually make more sense to me, would be to rig up a script that dynamically adjusts the fsneakmaxdistance based on weather/environmental condition (or via the exteriordistancemultiplier). That way, during a thunderstorm, the effective perception range of everyone is a lot lower than durnig a sunny afternoon, for example.

In testing, I've found that the "distance attenuation" factor has a significant effect on the range that the detection formulas work, but really a rather mild influence on the actual detection formula itself. Anyway, that's another way to maybe approach it =) You'd have to use FOSE though to be able to change gamesettings in game.

Yes, it is "taking light into account" . . . but does a pretty poor job in my opinion. Turn on your PipBoy light in a dark area . . . and it makes hardly any difference in how visible you are. And there is not nearly enough difference between sneaking in daylight and during the middle of the night. At night you should be able to get a LOT closer before you are detected. With the default game, the NPCs basically all have night vision, while you're not only blind, but you stand out like a beacon to them.


I'm doing both. With weather, you have a choice between cloudy, rainy, snowy, and pleasant . . . there is no "sunny" or no "moonlight." Plus a person is generally a LOT less visible at sunrise (when it is technically sunny), than an hour after sunrise, and you should be extremely visible in the middle of a sunny afternoon.


Are you referring to the "fSneakDistanceAttenuationExponent"? If so, changing that can cause other problems . . . I have found that if you set it lower than default, you won't have any warning time between when the enemy is alerted and when they lock on to you . . . it becomes almost instantaneous . . . which is not a good thing.

I'm using FOSE to script this. I'm dynamically changing both the fSneakBaseValue and the fSneakExteriorDistanceMult. You need to alter the two together, or you end up picking orange compass alerts from enemies that should be way off your radar. Unlike a lot of players, I feel that you need the compass markers just to compete . . . since they are how the NPCs know where you are (which is why they "see" you when you are on the other side of a building.) The tricky part is balancing this so that the alert markers only appear when an enemy should be in range if they were in LOS (I wish there was a better way to make you and them both invisible when you do not have LOS).

Nope, I'm also lurking silently and watching as things develop. Unfortunately, I had to RMA my GTX 280 back to PNY and only have my old backup card to use right now until my new one gets shipped out. So basically I can only work on my own mod and somewhat play test it until then. But, as soon as it gets back, you can bet I will be playing some more! (crosses fingers for next week!)

Hey Balok,

Sorry about your graphics card. I can certainly relate . . . after being without my computer for a month (tough way to end the year).

Getting a bit off track here: but you mentioned that the one thing you didn't like about my VisionFX mod was that you had to take off your Lucky Shades when you are inside. Are you sure you are using my mod? Because it doesn't darken interior lighting . . . it just reduces HDR glare and alters the saturation a bit.

Is there any chance of an FWE/FOOK compatible version of this mod in the future?

Yup, absolutely sure. I have a decent 24" monitor that renders well lit areas beautifully. However, in dim and poorly lit areas the screen just washes out horribly. So, it's not that it really darkens the interiors so much as it seems to just make things wash out a little worse than normal. I actually bought that monitor because of the delay time and no input lag. But the backlighting leaves a little to be desired when it's dark. I got it for my other hobby of online simulation racing and most of the tracks we race on are set up for day time racing. But I do love the look of the FX mod. It really reminds me of wearing the old "Blue Blocker" shades from years ago!

FWE already includes an earlier version of my SmarterAI module.

As far as FOOK goes . . . perhaps . . . in time. But I haven't even considered trying to make one yet. A few of my independent modules, like the SmarterAI module can be perhaps used with FOOK, without causing too much of a problem (but I would suggest loading mine last . . . at least as a test). Some users claim that this module works fine with FOOK . . . I just can't confirm that.

The first thing I need to do is get my full Realism Tweaks to a 'final' state, where I feel that I have fixed the largest gameplay problems, as best as I can (the problem is that I'm still learning how to do things). Version 3.3 was close to finally addressing all the biggest issues, with all the changes in my new Skills module. Version 3.4 should be very close to what I consider to be a 'final' version. My next project is to make a GOTY version of my mod (or a patch . . . it will depend on which one is easier to do and keep updated).

Yeah, I was more interested in the Main Module. Oh well, getting a complete version of the mod should certainly be your priority.

You can try loading my Main module (Arwen_Tweaks_Main.esp) after FOOK . . . it might work ok. The biggest incompatibility will likely be my Weapons and Armor modules.

Having a lot of fun with this Arwen!

But it seems like I'm instantly detected when entering buildings, even if I'm sneaking and have a sneak skill > 50. Is it supposed to work like that?

This is one of the sneak issues that I'm trying to fix in v.3.4 . . . and it looks like I have figured out a way to mostly solve this.

The problem is that there is only one set of sneak settings that are used for both interior cells and exterior cells. The only difference is that when you're in an exterior cell, a 2X distance multiplier is applied . . . so you are not detected as soon outside as inside (as in the NPCs detect you from twice as far away when you are outside). But all the other detection settings use the same value for both outer and inner cells . . . so any change affects both . . . which means everything is a compromise between what works best inside and what works best outside.

My solution is part of my new stealth script, where I can now use independent values for inner and outer cells . . . so I can now tweak my indoor stealth completely separately from my outdoor stealth. Sorry for the long explanation . . . the short answer is that this should not happen nearly as much in my next release (I'm still tweaking my script, but things are looking VERY promising so far).

Arwen,


things keep looking better and better for the next version! Any estimate on when it may be out? Not that I am trying to rush it in any way. Ok, I admit, I am like a kid on Christmas morning. Hehe;);)

Two things:

What does fNPXMaxGunWobbleAngle do? If I raise it 5 will it just make NPC's less accurate with weapons?

Just an FyI...I noticed when I clean your mod in FO3Edit I get rid of several Identical to masters. Not sure if you want to clean it first?

Mahalo,
Nemesis.

Not exactly, that value just increases NPC spread when their arms are crippled.

So the only way to make NCs less accurate is to set Limb HP of the arms to zero? That svcks.

I'm pretty close to having v.3.4 ready for release . . . all I really need to do is finish balancing out my stealth changes (which can be rather tricky).

But las night, while play testing my latest changes, my graphics card quite on me . . . to the point that I cannot even boot up my computer. So I'm afraid v.3.4 is going to be delayed for a while.
If I'm lucky my card is still under warranty . . . if I'm not so lucky, well it's going to be awhile, as I just paid off two of my student loans, which means that a new graphics card is not in my budget.

Did I mention that I really despise computers? :brokencomputer:

Wow! Serious? That stinks. You are having a tough time with hardware lately! I have an old Nvidia 8800GT if you want it. I don't use it. Not the newest but it can run FO3. Maybe someone else can do better?

Hopefully things will work out and it will be under warranty!

Mahalo,
Nemesis.

i had the 8800 GTX and that card was a beast. i put that card second after my ati 9800 pro for longevity. i currently have a 285 but its already been made obsolete by the new ATI cards and it hasnt been out that long. good thing i did my taxes. :celebration:

Yeah, it been a really tough couple of months. Who knew I was so hard on computers? I guess I missed my calling as a PC stress tester.
That's a really nice offer! And I may just take you up on it. But I'm hoping that my card is still covered under the warranty (I'm pretty sure it is covered under my PC's 3- year warranty . . . which is still good for like 4 more months). I'll find out tomorrow.

If my card is covered, I may be able to talk the company into an upgrade, where I would just have to pay the price difference (assuming it's not too expensive). My current card is and XFX NVidia GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB DDR3 @500MHz . . . so I'm wondering what might be a good step up for me. Should I stick with NVidia, or switch over to an AMD's Radeon? I'm not really very good at PC hardware, and what I read on the Internet just confuses me. So any help from some of the hardware savvy here will be greatly appreciated.

At the moment ATI is the way to go, there is currently no good reason to get a Nvidia card.
Best you get a card from the 58xx series. My personal recommendations would be a Radeon 5850 or 5870, but I dont know your budget.

As for manufacturer you can't go wrong with Sapphire or MSI.

Kai is right. ATI is the way to go. I recently got a 4870 1GB VRAM which runs FO3 great even with 2048 terrain texture replacers. So, if money's an issue, I can recommend that card as well as the better series he mentioned.

gothemasticator

Arwen,

In terms of bang for your buck, the previous posts are correct about the Radeon 5850 series, but they are going to be in the $300 range for a good one. If cost is a major factor you can get a Radeon 5750/70 or a Nvidia GTX 260 core 216 for under $200.

The Radeon 5770 generally use less power. Since I don't know your power supply wattage, this might be a good choice. Also make sure you have room for a possible longer card than you have now.
Here is a possibility:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858

Keep in mind that you already have a Nvidia, so the transition may be easier to go with that maker, unless you are comfortable with clean driver uninstalls/installs. In the end it will come down to what your warranty is and what upgrade options you will have available to you.

Bottom line is this: ANY of these cards mentioned will perform better than what you have now. Just make sure you get about 1GB of RAM on the card. (Don't worry too much about manufacturer. XFX, ASUS, Saphire, MSI, EVGA all make good cards in general)

Here is a link that you can see cards and what buyers rate them:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=48&name=Desktop-Graphics-Video-Cards

Mahalo,
Nemesis.

[edit] Sorry, nevermind, this is an issue with something else entirely. I tested with CEP and also witnessed the same behaviour. I suspect the issue is with MMM MZ support plugin.

This is terrible news Arwen... Hope you get something sorted soon!



/Looks at own 8800 GTS - hang in there fella, hang in there!