Stop accusing people of discouraging Arwen just because they don't like a few of the mod's features. Statements like mine should be viewed as "constructive criticism". My constructive criticism was that I wished that the mod were more modular, the reasoning being that I do not like certain features.

Of course it's Arwen's mod and so it's up to him to fix it as he sees fit. I did not imply otherwise.

It isn't really you, but it's just about everyone else who is criticizing (in a way that isn't constructive).
BTW, this is an early wip, there will be three more modules. The core is just one of them, and it's the only one posted as of yet.

Thank you Arwen, both for your work and for taking the time to answer our posts!

I have shelfed the game for now and will go back to it when your mod will be complete or close to complete and will redo a new character for it. Take your time, and remember internet is full of idiots who do nothing but whine and pretend they know everything while sitting idly behind their computer, just ignore them and focus on what you like and the people who love your job.

Cheers,

K

When you have reduced the Carrying Capacity, have you then also fixed the weight on all items??

Thanks for all the GREAT support.

I would have replied sooner, but my internet connection as been very quirky the last few days, and for some reason Bethesda's forum format always seems to make the problem worse. I've begun a response a number of times, only to have my internet connection severed before I can post my reply.

I'm working on v.1.3 and I'm going to likely release it late this week. I feel like I have an obligation to support my Realism Tweaks. A LOT of people are apparently using my mod and they are rightfully expecting me to release updates as I complete them. And I feel that I need to release this next update sooner than later, as it fixes a few bugs in v.1.2 and balances out a few things much better. If the NVSE is available within the next few days, I'll also be including my missing scripts (like my Dynamic Stealth quest script).

I cannot possibly reply to every individual post from the past day or so. Writing is very difficult for me, due to my brain damage. It takes me FOREVER to type out even a short reply. But I have asked for feedback and it is not fair to ask for something and then just ignore it, just because it is a bit difficult for me. Right now I feel that I have to address the discussion about Realism a bit (plus I just responded to the same topic on my NV Nexus thread, so I can cut and paste most of it).

My use of the word "realism" in my mod's name is meant to be taken within the context of the game. The Fallout world is not based on our reality any more than Oblivion was. Plus this is a Role-Playing game, not a combat simulator, and I've clearly stated that my main goal is to make NV a better RPG. In a RPG your weapon skills are a major factor in how effective you will be with a weapon. If you can kill every opponent in the game with 2 or 3 head shots with only a Guns skill of 10, there is no incentive to improve those skills. So, while this may not seem very realistic, it is a necessary function of the game, and it is an essential element in my goal of making FO:NV a better RPG. If you don't like this . . . don't use my mod. I'm NOT going to change this. I am NOT going to remove the skill factor in the amount of damage you can do with a weapon. So please stop[ whining about this. Personally I feel that adds to the realism/immersion of the game, as it feels right that my character should be able to be more competent with a weapon as her skills improve. You don't have to agree, but this is not something that I'm willing to compromise on.

But my mod does make the game more realistic in MANY ways (most are not even in this first module . . . remember this is still only the first module . . . and this one is still not complete or fully balanced yet). For instance: all weapons do 25 to 100% more damage than default (depending on your weapon skills), armor is much more protective, I removed most weapon skill enchantments from clothing, reduced the carrying capacities (and based it more on strength), reduced the weight of armor when it is worn. leveled out the differences between PC and NPCs, made movement speeds more realistic (including slower speeds when running backward, base on your agility), reduced falling distances (you will be hurt if you fall more than 14 feet), reduced the movement speeds when crippled, improved the combat AI of the NPCs, made pain have more impact on the player, increased radiation damage, increased burn damage, reduced the damage modifier for stealth attacks, increased the deterioration of armor and weapons, removed many of the VATS cheats, greatly improved localized body damage (so that head shots would reduce way more health than shots to arms and legs), made strength a much greater factor in melee combat, plus a whole slew of other little tweaks that I cannot recal right now.

No. Of course not. Do you have any idea how long that would take?

My reduced carrying capacity changes in my Realism Core are pretty minor, unless you created a character with less than 5 STR. A character with 5 STR can still carry 150 pounds (default was 200). Ok, here's an example of game play vs. realism and why it is so difficult to balance out both (and why it is impossible to please everyone). In real life I hike, so I have a pretty good idea about what a realistic load is. I can carry like 50 pounds of gear in a backpack and still climb a mountain (perhaps I could haul as much as 60 or 65 pounds, but I would have to rest pretty often). In the default game and average player (5 STR) can carry 200 pounds, and they don't even need a backpack! So they must have some pretty amazing magical pockets to do that.

The funny thing is (and this is NOT directed to you, Ceano) is that many of the uses of my mod that complain that my mod isn't realistic because it based damage on skill, also complain that my mod reduced their carrying capacity (even though my changes are a bit more realistic).

Ceano, what my mod currently does do (since v.1.2) is that any armor that you wear is reduced to 50% of its non-carried weight (and PA is reduced to 25%). Plus I did make a LOT of weight changes to armor and clothing (a bandanna no longer weighs 1 pound). I will be slowly adding more weight changes. but in most cases this will result in weight increases (currently stimpaks weigh 0). My Hard-Core module (once it is released) will further reduce the carrying capacity. I'm hoping to eventually add backpacks to my mod.

Excellent news on the 1.3 Arwen. I may have said you should take a rest but the selfish gamer in me still wants the updates!

Regarding the RPGness of skill affecting aim not damage:

Some RPGs have skill affecting damage, while others have it affect the ability "to hit". So one isn't necessarily more RPG than the other. Specially since the classic RPGs (D&D and FO1 and FO2) and even the VATS system of FO3 and NV (a glaring inconsistency in the game imho) have skill affecting "to hit" and not damage.Perhaps at best, its a matter of personal preference and not one being more RPG than the other.

As to incentive to raising skill, even when 3 headshots can kill as easily at 1 skill as at 100 skill, its not very likely you'll make those headshots unless at very short range. so the reduced accuracy does offset the increased damage. And, as others have also posted, bonus critical chances at higher skill levels provide additional incentive. Again, it comes down to preference which no one can impose on a mod author.

That said, lots of us, specially those who've used ART for some time now, understand and respect that you made the mod for yourself and are only kind enough to share it with us (I wouldnt want to tweak everything you did no matter how much I felt it needed it!) and even consider our suggestions, So do what you feel is right for the game. We certainly appreciate it! :goodjob:

I can't think of a single non-video-game RPG that has skill impact damage rather than the chance to hit. There are some where skill can impact both, but the impact on damage is usually minimal compared to the impact on hit chance. Skill impacting damage instead of to-hit chance is purely a video game thing, and even then most video game RPGs have skill impact to-hit chance instead of (or possibly in addition to) damage, and the reason they do it that way is for purely gameplay reasons and has nothing to do with realism.

Question: Has anyone figured out what game settings control the increase in weapon spread due to not having the required weapon skill level? It might be that the spread skill multipliers are hooked into that system now, with the player having minimum weapon spread at the weapon's skill requirement and maximum spread at skill 0 or something. Might be something to look in to if you want to make weapon skill impact to-hit chance outside of VATS.

@langy

action rpgs usually have damage tied to skill. didnt diablo and sacred work like this? though i believe diablo also had skill affect to hit chances. and spells, of course, dont usually have accuracy settings.

in FO3 i was satisfied with my tweaks to fGunSpreadSkillBase and fGunSpreadSkillMult. even NPCs were'nt too inaccurate at low levels. tried messing around with the same settings in the NV geck but setting them to extreme high and low values didnt produce any effect that i could see.

i thought about making a perk for the player to give weapon spread in increments according to skill but i couldnt think of a way to implement the same for npcs. perhaps effects? but i realized i didnt know enough about the geck for that

Im not that far advanced in the game yet, but I noticed that my enemies dont use AP ammo, are you going to address that too?
Maybe not the low tier troops, but others should have access, and maybe even let them change it depending on the situation. players wears only his sunday suit ? time for hollow point :flamethrower:

I don't think Diablo actually has 'weapon skills'. It has 'strength' and a few other stats, but you don't have 'How good am I at swinging a broadsword?' At least, if I remember right. Been years since I played it. But yeah, as I said, some video games do use skill=damage rather than skill=to-hit or skill=to-hit+damage.

When you were testing those game settings, did you use a weapon that you had the minimum required weapon skill for? That 'required' weapon skill is set up so that when you've got it you're firing at minimum spread, so there's something controlling how much spread you have anyways when you've got less than that 'required' amount.

What are your plans for drugs, Arwen?

I'd really like to see the Magical Addiction Remover doctors removed, fixer just suppress effects of withdrawal, and some kind of system of highs and lows, where drugs give you a big kick immediately, but then a penalty equal to their bonus a few hours afterward, and the effects of withdrawal heightened. Probably not possible without NVSE, but adding in a feature that only allows you to spend money on drugs when in withdrawal would be neat.

On a similar note, what are your goals with radiation?

I really don't want this thread to be so much of a discussion on hit chance vs. damage increase. My point was that an essential element of a RPG is that your character begins the game at a lower (generally at the lowest) level, with a modest amount of skill points, and that improving your skills improve you abilities. In the case of weapon skills, higher skill equal more success with that weapon type (whether it is hit chance or how much damage is done). I remember how wrong it felt for me to play Morrowind, where low melee skills meant that my character rarely made contact with her target . . . the damage done to her opponent was like there was not contact at all made, while the visuals showed that the opposite was true. Using just a hit-based-on-skill chance in the Fallout games totally ruins immersion just as much for me (since my opponents rarely even hit me when my own gun skills are low). My Tweaks uses a combination of hit chance and damage multiplies tied to skill, since (in my opinion) this adds the most immersion, while keeping skills important all the way up to their maximum amount,


Yes, but it seem to result in increased gun sway, not increased spread. The default settings for this are so low that it is has no effect at all unless you are using a scoped gun (and then it is pretty minor). I'm increasing the penalty a bunch in v.1.3. Not having high enough skills to use a weapon should mean that you are not going to be very effective with that of weapon. There is also a strength requirement for many weapons, but this appears to be broken, as I cannot seem to get any change at all by increasing the modifier.



I don't yet know if this is something that is fixable.

Any changes to drugs, including healing drugs, will be handled in my Med-Tec module, along with other ingestibles and my injury overhaul.

I've already increased Radiation effects by a factor of 4, and increased the effectiveness of wearing some armor and helmets in reducing the amount of radiation.
My FO3 Med-Tec module adds radiation sickness (different than the default radiation poisoning), where you cannot eat or drink (without getting sick) when your Rads are too high.

I was under the impression that gun sway was directly correlated with weapon spread - sway is just the game's way of showing you the weapon spread while in iron-sights mode. Does it not impact non-aimed shots at all?

The way things sound to me, by the time the hardcoe module is posted, you'll have really nerfed the sniper build. Thank god. I love playing my sniper character (in every roleplaying game I play, the main character I play with is either a sniper for modern games or an archer for fantasy), but all the special points I get in combination with how easy it is to aim and the invisible wall remover mod I use that allows me to get to places enemies can't go (those walls totally screw with my immersion) make it pretty much a god build. The challenge is something I'm looking forward to.

As a side note, it would be awesome if NPCs could switch ammo. I'm just not convinced that the engine will let them get that smart, I mean, they can't even jump. Jeez, won't the Gamebryo engine die already? Hopefully TES V will be on something newer.

i like the idea of NPCs switching ammo, if it can be implemented.

@Langy
i didnt put any points into guns and i was already using ART w reduced points so i doubt i met minimum skill reqs

@Arwen

What settings affect gun sway? i'd like to take a look at them. i guess i mistakenly used sway and spread interchangeably

Depends what weapon you were using, Norb. The majority of the early-game weapons don't have any skill requirement, for example.

This may be the product of two mods interacting, haven't tested yet, but is it intentional that the Brush Gun is now significantly more powerful both in DAM and DPS than the Antimaterial Rifle?

[EDIT]
That wasn't entirely accurate, Brush Gun does about 40 less per shot, but its DPS is 4!!!! times the AMR.

Spent a bit more time with the new version. The armor changes are great. Crippling limbs is somewhat viable against high armor targets now, and combat overall still feels much more lethal than base. You plan on doing anything like ACE from Fallout 3 with the severity of the combat effects of limb damage? The movement speed on leg damage is a start in the right direction.

The anti materiel rifle has a low DPS because of its rate of fire. Kind of like the sledgehammers.

Yeah, I know, that is its role. I was questioning whether the Brush gun's DPS was appropriate given its versatility.

No. The two are separate. If I greatly increase the spread of the 9mm, the gun is still rock steady when I aim at a target, but it is very hard to hit anything. With increased sway, the gun wanders back and forth when I aim, but I can still hit my target if I time it right.


The Brush gun does 75 DAM in the default game, and the Antimaterial Rifle does 95 DAM. So it would depend on the condition of each weapon and on your weapon skill (as a greater skill would increase the damage multiplier).


Thanks! My mod already does more than just increase the movement penalty when crippled. Pain now has 4 times the effect on player - you will now feel like you're actually in pain, and I've increased the Head Cripple Penalty, and there is a much greater stagger chance when you are hit in the torso, and less damage with melee when one or more arms are crippled, and more decrease in shooting accuracy when your right arm is crippled. But I will be adding more, like I did in my FO3 Tweaks, including some weapon restrictions when crippled. I need NVSE to do some of those things.

Yeah, when I embarked on implementing my design document, I quickly realized that about 80% of what I wanted to do requires the script extender, so I held off entirely. But judging from the direction you're headed my mod would have been virtually redundant.

You know, there's something I want to ask. How are you going to change energy weapons? I mean, as per vanilla they really svck, eat too much ammo, and overall just don't compete with guns. In out post-apocalypse 1950s-esque world, they're supposed to be formidable killing machines. currently, I'm using this mod: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35240 , but when you start messing with individual weapons, that might be a problem.