Hey Arwen,

Great job on v4.0! Here are some comments.....

Since, as usual, there are soooo many great things, I will just speak of the few odd things I have noticed.

As far as 30 sec knockdowns, I haven't seen that. Mine are about 5-10sec. I have noticed that the pc can get killed after getting knocked down. for example: My pc was shot, knocked down and continued to be shot at with an assault rifle. Not sure if this is intended, but it is realistic.

My Vats numbers seem high relative to my skills. For example I have a Per of 4 and SG skill of 17; with a Chinese pistol I get about 40-60% to hit in Vats from about 20 feet. However it is lower using a hunting rifle??? The only thing I did was lower the spread on the Chinese pistol. Could that affect Vats?

Absolutely love what you did with the perks! Great job on both the new and old ones!! Related to this I wanted your opinion. Just to add some variety, what do you think about any of the add-on perk packs out there? Yes there are some very overpowered perks like radiation healing and such, but removing those (or not using them at all) can you recommend any that work well with the spirit of Arwen's Realism??

Lastly sneak: Overall this is excellent. Much tougher at the time that it should be. The pipboy light really is a bad thing for stealthy types finally. Now obtaining some type of night-vision is a must, esp. when I use Fellout. Easier to sneak in the dark! The enemies do seem to find you easier in the daytime, even if you are a hundred yards away hidden under a bridge.

Now you get to play huh?

Mahalo,
Nemesis.

Thanks Mez! As usual, this one morphed into a much bigger update than I had intended. Now I can get back to being able to play my own game.

Hey Nemesis, Thanks for the GREAT feedback . . . especially for confirming that the 30-second knockdowns are not happening in v.4.0! I was beginning to wonder if something weird was going on that I missed.
Being attack after being knocked down is not only intended, it is the norm (part of the original game) . . . I just increased the affect for many of the default ranged weapons.

I'm pretty sure that spread changes directly affect VATS hit chances. Plus 20 feet is pretty close. I don't know what spread you are using for the pistol, but the Hunting rifle spread is pretty high at 3:3 (That's the default spread, which I haven't changed . . . yet).


Thanks! I haven't looked at any add-on perk packs, so I have no idea what might be a good fit. Personally I would rather just add more of my own perks to future versions. If you or anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know, and I'll see what I can do.


The PipBoy sneak penalty is something that I've wanted in my own game forever! But I was stumped at how to make it happen, until I stumbled upon a really simple solution (which I included in v.4.0).
The Perception that seems to be hard-coded into to the game doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between LOS and solid walls (or floors) . . . it is more like x-ray vision than anything else . . . so I haven't been able to do much about this . . . other than just tweak to perception values/ranges.


Yes. I am playing again (finally), but I'm also re-writing (and adding to) my FO3 Journal's fantasy story as I play, so I haven't gotten very far yet.

Did you change the MMM patch with your 4.0 version? I should just re download it see that does anything.

But as for now. I played for 3 hours. Every rifle (not laser/energy/explosive) after being shot regardless of armor type. I was knocked down for 30 seconds. As for the pop up message I viewed that incorrectly. I get knocked out, in a new game. Old saves. All dlc area's. Only when I have the weapons module loaded. I turn it off I get get shot a million times and nothing happens...apart from dying of course. Heh =)

If others wouldnt mind trying out this effect, load these modules and test it please.

-Smarter AI
-Survival
-Weapons
-Localized Damage
-Armor
-MMM patch

Find anyone with a rifle, non-explosive/energy/flame/hand gun. Get shot (and obviously live) at least 5 times. Do you you slump to the floor? If so, how long for?

Thanks in advance =)

The same thing is happening to me in 4.0....I get hit by Rivet City guards with 10mm pistols and I go down for 30 seconds. Then, they whale away on me until I'm dead. Very frustrating

Would it be possible to just move the knockdown effects to a separate ESP for testing, and also so that we can choose whether or not we actually want to use it? I'd like to stay with your mod, but the knockdown is making me want to abandon the mod altogether.

Thanks for the info green.

Maybe its related to fatigue?

If it makes any difference I like the weapons module. Just whatever is causing us to drop for 30 seconds is to much trouble which is kinda sad since I want it for the bullet speed and the explosion knockouts =/

Anyone else please make note of it here if its happening to you also

Did some more testing. I shut off everything except the dlc's and modules. Same stun effect 30 seconds. Turn off weapons mod. I can get shot a million times, nothing happens.

No. There's only one MMM patch.


The 10mm has NO effects even attached to it. So if you're getting knockouts from the 10mm, it has nothing at all to do with my weapon effect scripts. This makes no sense at all.

Just don't use my Weapons module if you don't like it, or if you are having trouble with it.
My weapon effects are a big part of my Weapons module, and I already have 9 modules.
I would have to remove the effects from all the explosions, from all the melee weapons, and from all the ranged weapons.

I've play tested my weapon effects for many, many hours . . . and I have not had a single issue with 4.0's effects in my own game.
I'm sorry that this is happening to you, but what you guys are describing is just not happening to me, and I can't seem to reproduce it.
If I can reproduce it, I can try to fix it, but I cannot fix what I cannot see.

Ok, I may have figured out a way to make a hot patch to alter my Gunshot effect . . . give me a while to test it out.

Well I'll still enjoy the game, just would like to use your mod's. But thanks regardless if you do or do not get something working for us. I do really like the faster bullets and explosion knockouts as I keep saying. Hope I don't seem rude. But I wouldn't post a problem that wasn't real. Is the fatigue scale related to the weapons module? I'm hoping I give accurate enough info is all, so I don;t have you chasing around for nothing. =/

On the bright side, I do see the other mods working damn fine. I can't believe the natural behaviors of the npc's I run into. People get scared when I unload a clip at them. They actually run and hide! 0_0

Its really funny to watch. Sometimes I get a suicidal raider. Then I lob a grenade at them and they're all like "HOLY CRAP !!" and they run like hell or get cover to shoot back at me. lol ^_^

Ok, I was finally able to reproduce the Gunshot 30-second knockout bug (which seems to varies from 20 to up to 45 seconds or so). What I did was attach my Gunshot effect to most of the pistols as well, so my fatigue would be damaged by nearly every kind of bullet that hit me. The bug seems to only happen when several NPCs were shooting me at the same time. What happens is that too much of your character's fatigue becomes damaged at once, which messes up the script. I had a similar bug happen when I was trying to make endurance a factor in my Blast effect. I think I have found a fix for this, but need to play test it a bit more. What I need to do is force an unconscious state for the victim for 5 seconds, so that I can then force the conscious state. Once I make sure that the fix works in my own game, I'll release an optional Weapons module replacement esp. (as soon as within the next hour or so).

So sweet. Obviously I know it isn't fun when you bang out something and hope it works and doesn't. But Kinda glad before I lose my internet connection I could track this bug for you so others can maybe play your great work ^_^

Thanks again for trying so hard =)

I wasn't thinking about it, but yeah I usually get nailed by talon company AND a pack of raiders at the same time up to like 8 npc's shooting at me. Kinda makes sense since you put it that way.

I keep popping back in to see the forum anyway, Thanks much ^_^

I appreciate your quick efforts to get this resolved too Arwen! Your dedication is unmatched.

Looking forward to trying out the new fix.

My replacement Weapons Module (v.4.01) is now available (under Updates: Arwen_Realism_Tweaks_Gunshot_Fix).

From the ReadMe:

This is a fix for users who are experiencing the 30-second knockout bug when being shot, with v.4.0 of my Weapons module (or my FULL_Tweaks version).
If you are not experiencing the 30-second knockout bug, you do not need this replacement module. (With v.4.0, your character should not be getting knocked out when shot . . . just knocked down for a few seconds.)

Details:
=========================================
The bug seems to only happen when several NPCs are shooting at your character at the same time. What happens is that too much of your character's fatigue becomes damaged at once, which messes up the script. The only difference between this replacement Weapons module and the 4.0 Weapons module is that I've changed my Gunshot Effect. The new script uses a different method to determine how much fatigue to damage (if the victim's fatigue >= 10, 50% of their current fatigue will be damaged. When their fatigue < 10, the script forces an unconscious state for the victim for 5 seconds.) I also added a new Gunshot popup message (v.4.0 did not have any Gunshot message, since your character was only supposed to be knocked down): "That last bullet really HURT, which causes you pass out for a few seconds." This will also help trace any other possible fatigue bugs (just in case this isn't the last one that needed squashing).


Installation:
============
If you're using the Arwen_Weapons.esp, just replace the v.4.0 one with this new one. If you are using the Arwen_FULL_Tweaks.esp, just put this new Arwen_Weapon.esp below it in your load order (so that it will load later, and the new Gunshot Effect will overwrite the earlier version).


I Need Your Feedback:
=====================
If you were experiencing the 30-second knockout bug when being shot, and try out this replacement esp . . . PLEASE posts your comments about it. I need to know if my new Gunshot Effect has actually eliminated this bug.

Checking in and downloaded. I'll get back with the results =)

Ok, I checked it out..........ITS GOOD !! heheh had ya for a moment didn't I? =)

I just got tired of finding bad guys to test run it. So I went psycho in the brotherhood lab lol

Rifles, bazookas, hand guns you name it and it went off in some lag happy mayhem. I get the gunshot pop up and I dropped and got back up after 2-3 seconds. NPC's seemed similar. I exploded a few things in side and around 8 npc's all going nuts. They were knocked out by the normal explosion and lasted longer for player actor as well (this was good). Gunshots 2-3 seconds; explosions a little longer but all looked good.

So thanks much arwen and I'm super enjoying the mayhem =^..^=

If anything else goes wrong I'll post. But seems like its all ok =)

I've only been testing for about a half hour now, but the situation seems much better now.

I'll post later after I can put some more time in. Thanks again.

Could some answer me whats better. FWE or Arwens?

Read the mods respective ReadMe's and decide what features you like better...

"Better" is pretty subjective. It all depends what you want exactly. Read the descriptions in the two [RELZ] threads. The nice thing is that you have a choice between two solid overhauls, that go about game play changes with a bit different focus.

My mod is smaller, but it is made to work with most the other mods on my Fallout 3 Journal's mod list. My mod also focuses on enhancing FO3's role-playing aspects, and on balancing the gameplay (Leveling out the playing field, so that the PC and the NPCs are more equal), and on making the Wasteland more deadly (while making it so the PC initially has just normal stats overall, instead of starting out well above average). You can also read more about my mod on http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods04.htm

I started a new game last night with your mod. The last time was several months ago with an earlier version. What a suprise when I knocked down one of the security guards and he was still alive! What a Bigger suprise when I got knocked down from melee fights! Looking forward to more suprises and I like what you are doing with this mod.

Hey Arwen or anyone,

Does anyone know how to remove a negative effect from a stat? I.E> (-). I was playing along and somehow my Perception went from 4 to 1(-). I have no known effects. No poison/radiation, no critical damage. I have slept 24 hours. I removed all clothing and weapons... etc
I was able to get Per back to 4 using the console, but I can't get rid of whatever the negative is? My last save where I wasn't affected is pretty far back, so I hope there is another command to correct this. If not, oh well I guess. I can't say how I got this or if it has anything at all to do with Arwens mod. I have several other mods...


Mahalo,
Nemesis.

Thanks so much for the feedback! I'm glad that you're enjoying my little 'surprises.'



Nemesis, it is normal to have your stat give stuff like PER 1(-) with my mod (if that is what you mean). What this means is that your PER is now at 1 and a negative modifier (probably from my Whack or Blast effects) being applied to it. If is being caused by my weapon effects, it will last for 5 or 6 REAL minutes, so sleeping won't help. Don't use the console to 'fix' this, just wait for the effect to wear off. [Of course, this will only be helpful if the (-) is the result of one of my weapon effects.]

Hey Arwen thanks for your info. so I have to wait 5 real minutes. Ok I will try that. However should the blast "effect" be listed in the character status screen, like poison or armor effects? Just curious as nothing is shown, and I am not sure if it is your mod, but it might be.

I will try what you suggest...
Mahalo,
Nemesis.

Yes, it should say "Blast" or "Whack" in the EFF box . . . and the penalties should be given when you highlight the effect.

I'm guessing that something else is causing this, and quite likely it is not my mod, as I don't have anything else in it that would knock down your stats.

Yes, I think you are correct Arwen. It doesn't appear to be your mod. The effect is not listed and I also waited about 10 min, so I will have to figure it out. I just wish I knew a console command to remove any negative effects, or to get rid of the (-). Oh well, more research....;)

Mahalo,
Nemesis.

Hi Arwen.

Glad your PC is Fixed :celebration:

A quick question.

Is your Mod OK to use with FOOK2?

Reason for asking,I saw earlier the repair system is altered.I think FOOK2 also alters the repair system making use of the Scrapper Add-On for the Work Bench.

Thank you for any Info.

Regards,

James

PS I'll be asking another question in The Forum

Hi Arwen.

This slightly off topic!

I'm reading your instructios to install the Foundation mod.

You say Run the WaystedResourcePack.exe to the temporary directory.
Do you mean all 3 please?

I think i've done it correct.How do I Zip these files into a new archive please?

Thanks.

James