Oi, need to clear up something... When I said, 'early on when I first started trying out your mod', I meant your mod about 2 revisions back, so this was before the AI module. And yes I was using Location Damage, as well as all other combat mods on your list at the time. So instead of your AI module I was using the Combat Behavior mod, etc.

I still tend to take more damage to the head then other areas though. Usually after a fight if I bring up my pipboy my head tends to be in the worst condition, just not nearly as so as in that early run of the game. This happens with FWE too though, so this is either a general problem with the game, or from some common mod you both use (You both use the Location Damage mod).

Rathious - The differences wouldn't show up too well in a video as both mods achieve a similar goal with the use of similar mods compiled together. Probably the biggest difference is FWE is an all in one package, Arwen's can be more of a do it yourselfer, giving you more room to come up with your own list of mods to use. Though I highly recommend going with her list on her website as a base (there's some on her list I don't use, but most of the ones I added myself are mainly cosmetic).

I also initially tried messing around with the iCombatTargetPlayerSoftCap values, but I never noticed that anything changed . . . does anyone have any idea of what it does/is-for?
I've been trying another setting, under Body Part Data, which seems to reduce the high rate of receiving head shots . . . but I need to test more before I can tell if it actually makes a difference, or my character was just getting a lucky break from the Raiders. Once I'm fairly sure I'll share what I did.

Does anyone know how NPCs actually target the PC (and other NPCs and Creatures)? I have to wonder if they are using using the game VATS targeting, which could explain a lot of what is happening.



Thanks! I really respect your opinion, since you have LOT more experience at modding and balancing this game than I do.


Do you mean "fNPCMaxGunWobbleAngle"? As I understand it the fNPCMaxGunWobbleAngle setting only kicks in when the NPC's arms are crippled. So this helps some, since the ones who have injured (right) arms won't be nearly as accurate (increases spread ... I think.), but I don't believe this has any effect on NPCs with uninjured arms.


I don't recall anyone mentioning this . . . but I HAVE noticed it in my own game (not sure if this is from my own mod or from one of the others that I'm using . . . I'm blaming it on my mod until I can rule it out). I'm guessing that the numbers are waaay off, as I'm hitting way too often when the given percentage is in the single digits.

Edit/update: I figured out what it likely causing the low percentage numbers: Gun spread is apparently the main way that weapon skill affects VATS accuracy ... and I've doubled the default fVATSSpreadMult from 0.5 to 1.0 (which makes it the same as with regular combat). I don't recall if CEP also altered this setting. But this is not part of my SmarterAI module ... it is part of my VATS module.

Can you definitly confirm this? Because that's the part I see missing from your mod and loading CEP after your SmartAI(which will of course overwrite almost all your changes) will definitly make a difference in NPCs headshottiness(I just made this word up)

No, I can't ... which is why I prefaced this with, "As I understand it . . ."

Either use my SmartAI module or use CEP ... don't use both, because that is bound to mess up things, balance wise. As I've learned in the past (the hard way), just removing a mod doesn't mean that all the changes will automatically be reset to default. What happens is that saves seem to retain some of the old mod's settings, even after it is deleted . . . and these changes are passed on to any future saves. That's why you need to do a clean save between uninstalling one balance mod (like CEP) and installing another one (like my SmartAI). I'm using my mod in a new game and I'm having less of a problem with receiving head shots than I ever did with CEP. CEP is a good mod, but mine actually goes a bit further in some areas, and in pretty different ways in others. Try uninstalling both mods, doing a clean save, and then install both my full mod ... or at least the SmartAI, Survival, and my Sneak modules (as these three all affect the way combat works).

The main reason that you are taking more damage to the head is that head shots (which include melee whacks) to the head have a damage multiplier of 2.0 (with Locational Damage), which is the same as what the NPCs receive. In the default game, the damage multiplier for the player's head was only 1.0, while it was 2.0 for the NPCs. Locational Damage just evens this out.

My next version will not be compatible with Locational Damage, as it will include my own Body Parts Data edits (for a number of reasons). My edits also uses a PC head damage multiplier of 2.0, but it also includes some other data edits (not in Locational Damage) that should reduce the percentage of head shots that your character receives (I'm trying for a 50% reduction).

I'm still a bit undecided whether I should just add my Body Parts Data edits to my Survival module (which is where it really belongs), or make it a separate module. Having a separate module would give people more options, but my Survival module is so much more complete when these edits are added to it, that I hesitate to make them optional.

I had the same idea. I tested it on some bloatflies with a 10mm pistol, taking a shot and then reloading the game and doing it a second later or whatever. I had a 3% chance to hit but I was still hitting quite a lot.

I'm not using the VATS plug-in by the way (just all the others), and the only VATS tweaks I did myself was the zoom in speed of VATS and damage percentage to the player during VATS.

I'm trying to finish up my localized damages edits and could use some help:

Does anyone know if it would break the game if I made Liberty Prime a little less invincible? I'd really like to change it so the robot actually takes a very small amount of damage with each hit. My change would make it possible for him to be destroyed ... but it would take a LOT of hits to do so.

Would my changes break the MAin Quest if he was actually destroyed?

I found out what was causing extremely low hit percentages in VATS.

It was my changes to the fVATSSpreadMult value (default was 0.5 and I had changed it to 1.0). My change should have made gun spread the same in VATS as in normal combat (which it perhaps did), but it also reduced the hit percentage points by a factor of ~3.
My next update sets it back to the default value, which is fine, since my next version includes new changes that alter the hit chances of the various body parts in VATS (some will now be higher, so will be lower, some are unchanged).

I'm close to completing my update . . . but I really could use some help on my above post on Liberty Prime, as I would like that to be included if it wouldn't break anything.

I'm wrapping up my next update (version 2.6), but since no one seems to know the answer to my Liberty Prime questions (quoted below), I won't be including those changes (as I really don't want my mod to break the Main Quest). I think it would have been cool (and would have added more immersion) if Liberty Prime could have sustained a little damage from each hit.

I'd assume actually killing him would break everything - every bit he's in looks really heavily scripted to me. Part of the "oh my god he is so awesome" bit was nothing scratched him - I'm not sure if that's worth taking away

Version 2.6 is now available! This is another MAJOR update . . . the FULL esp jumped from 23KB to 82KB.

Major changes in Version 2.6:

1.) New Localized Body Part Damage module (Module #5: Localized Damage Tweaks) . . . This is my biggest module yet (it is more than twice the amount of code as all the other modules combined)!

2.) Reset gun spread in VATS back to default settings (VATS module). My earlier change should have made gun spread the same in VATS as in normal combat (which it perhaps did), but it also reduced the hit percentage points by a factor of 3 . . . which was not a good thing.

3.) Removed my previous attempts to slow down speed a bit more when encumbered (Main module). My encumbrance tweaks did not seem to have any effect on the PC and might be responsible for some of the BoS slow motion problem.

Details on my new Localized Body Part Damage module: (Arwen_Tweaks_Localized.esp):
- Changes the localized body damage effects ... in a way that balances out game play, while making strategic hits more effective (such as crippling shots).
- Tweaks ALL 32 unique body types (affects every body in the original game).
- Equalizes the body parts damage effects between the PC and the NPC (in the default game, head shot damage was set twice as high for NPCs).
- Damage to an arm or leg will now decrease your health much less than damage to head or torso.
- The VATS Hit Chance for each body part should now be much more consistant between characters with similar types of body parts.
- Reduced the chance of the PC receiving head shots by 50% (the frequency was set way too high in the default game).
- Greatly reduces the probability of exploding body parts (use with my Gore_No_More mod, if you want even less exploding parts).
- Robots were also tweaked so that you will now have a greater chance of disabling parts of a robot (now possible to destroy the targeting chip in turrets, which will then target nearby NPCs).

I've updated the first post in this thread to reflect the changes that Version 2.6 makes [see opening post for more details].

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7565

Thanks, looks like a very good release!

I've been using your SmartAI tweaks with FWE and found them to be awesome. So this past weekend I decided to start a new game using all of your tweaks instead of FWE. My complements on a well thought-out set of changes. I'm using the Arwen_Tweaks_FULL (version 2.5) in conjunction with Arwen_XPR, MMM, WMK, and a few other mods that were integrated into FWE that I just can't play without such as Pointiac, DK_BulletTime, Sprint Mod and FWE Alternate Travel. I never use VATS and love sniping so I also use Auto Aim Fix - Headshot Deluxe Edition. Perhaps this is an area that you want to try you hand at tweaking.

I find the reduced carry weight one of my biggest challenges especially when using the WeightAmmo and WeightMed mods. I don't think that you tweak the weigh of items but I want to mention that the weight of some raider armor, like the Badlands armor, seem way to heavy.

I like your approach to slowing leveling in Arwen_XPR because it makes completing quests the only major source of XP. At five points per location dicovered I'll have to discover sixty locations to earn that much experience or kill 50 Super Mutant Brutes. I'm not sure I will be able to achieve level 30 but it will be fun trying.

I just read the changes that you made in version 2.6. The local Localize Damage mods sounds nice but I've seen difficulties with attempts like this before. The problem that others have had with reducing damage taken for hits to the limbs (arms and legs) is that NPCs usually have their arms in front of their chest holding a weapon. This significantly impacts on the effectiveness of shotguns since many of the pellets hit the arms instead of the torso. So to compensate the shotgun spread was altered and number of pellets increase. I don't know if this will be a problem here but its something to keep an eye on.

Congrats on another release!

Given the cross-fertilization of ideas going on between the various gameplay mods, I may follow your lead on the VATS hit % changes, I.E., restoring fVATSSpreadMult back to .5 (FWE also used 1.0) and tweaking the specific body part %'s to control specific changes.

I don't remember if your tweaks adjust this value or not, but there is a fVATSDistanceMult gameplay setting (or something like that) that FWE adjusts as well. Lowering this value makes it possible to use VATS over much longer distances, but doesn't dramatically increase the hit % up close.

Anyway, just some food for thought. Thanks,

edit:



Yes, this will likely be an issue. Without the tweaks to body part data, the shotguns had 9 projectiles doing their full damage to limbs/torso, and double damage to the head. With these kinds of changes, if you want the shotgun to retain it's damage output, you'll have to increase the damage / projectile count so on average you're dealing the same amount of damage / shot. In FWE, we ended up nearly doubling the number of projectiles (I think it's set to 16 now) for the shotuns, decreasing the spread by 20% or so, and increasing the damage an additional 10-20% or so.

Hi Arwen. I plan on using you Smart AI module with MMM. Will the modules "Hunting & Looting" or "Natural Selection" conflict at all?

Thanks!

Thanks! I put a LOT of work and testing into the Smart AI module ... that was a very difficult balancing act, but I've been very happy with the result in my own game, and it's nice to here that others are enjoying my changes. I also use MMM and Pontiac, but I don't like the sprint mod, as it feels too much like a cheat to me, since it only affects the player.


It's meant to be a challenge. And I didn't change the weight of any items. There are mods that do make realistic changes to the weight of some things, with should work fine with my mod.


Thanks . . . I mod that mod because I hate leveling up fast. For me, the lowest levels in Bethesda's rpgs are always the most fun.


I tested my new Localized Body Part Damage module while using the shotgun and see how this was a minor problem, but it works both ways, and the shotgun's DAM still seemed about right when compared with the 10mm. I really don't want to tweak individual types of weapons and armors, but I may haver to at some point. But so far no one has informed me that they felt like the shotgun was now underpowered. Give it a try and let me know what you think. I don't believe that any other Localize Damage mod has gone anywhere near as far as mine does ... I think you will enjoy the ability to destroy the targeting chip in turrets, without them always blowing up (when successful, they will then target nearby NPCs). Plus this module reduces that chance of the PC receiving head shots by 50%

Thanks! My mod doesn't change the fVATSDistanceMult value, as I felt like VATS was already overpowered.


I just tested the sawed-off shotgun and it seem to kill Raiders in just a few shots ... but I was pretty close, which I think is how that weapon is meant to be used anyway. If I get enough complains, I'll like tweak it, so thanks for letting me know what would fix it.

Thanks for this very immaculatley fine tuned work of hardcoe balance Arwen and the continued fixes along with taking the time to read and comment on all the suggestions etc. Cheers :icecream: :cake: :cake: :icecream:

I'm using MMM, with both of those optional esps ... to my mod and MMM are very compatible.

Hi,
I've a problem (using localized, AI and main modules). I added the localized module a few days ago.
when not using VATS, lots of my shots do not cause ANY damage.
now, I know it might be a miss, but I have 2 weapons with a knock-back effect, I had several time when my enemy was knocked down, I check him in VATS and see that he took no health and limb damage at all.

so, can the localized module cause something like this?

Are you sure that:

1.) you're shots are not causing some damage? (If you hit just an arm or a leg, it could result in very little damage to their overall health).

2.) the knock-back effects are not causing this lack of damage?

My Localized Damage module greatly reduces the Damage Mult for arms and legs, and it also reduces their Health Percent, and the greatly reduces the chances that body parts will explode when damaged.

What this means is that, when an NPC (such as a Raider) is at full health, it should now take more shots to an arm or a leg to kill them. And hits to the torso and head are now a lot more deadly.

My mod also alters the Hit Chance ... mostly just to make things more balanced between creature that have similar body parts, but had vastly different hit chances assigned to them in the default game. In the case of NPCs, the Hit Chances were actually left at default or they were increased a bit.

1. I'll take a closer look at the health values using getav health .

2. I didn't look into how the effect is done but it's the vanilla victory rifle effect, so if that's the case there's still have problem.

Hello there, top work on this mod, Ive not tried it myself yet but I fully intend to after my first playthrough(well, fourth, but the first three were on my old 360 without any DLC so they don't count ). Seeing as you've done some work on the gore settings, perhaps you could advise me on something.

I quite like the level of gore in FO3, however I'm not enamoured with the way some of it works, specifically heads. How possible would you say it would be to mod the gore parameters to set beheading as only for melee criticals and "head'splosions" only for ranged criticals? It's never sat right with me that shooting someone with a pistol can result in their head cleanly separating at the neck :/ This is something I would work on myself, but Im not experienced enough to know whether it's got a good time invested vs effect ingame ratio, heh.

Thanks!

The only way that I know how to do this is by making edits to each individual weapon that you want to change (I'm no expect, so there could be an easier way).

You would have to change the "Hit" flag (under DNAM), from "Normal formula behavior" to either "No Dismember/Explode", "Dismember Only", or "Explode Only" (those are your 4 choices).

well, I looked into the health values, and I seem to have a zombie problem... http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/742/zombiege.jpg :shocking: