One of the fun things in a game such as an RPG is a sense of progress. Level up too slowly and that sense of progress is impacted. I'd also hate to finish the game at level 15, missing out on some fun perks. There also missing the sense of becoming more powerful if your progress is too slow.



Sure on the problems is that you level up too fast, but I don't want to replace it with it's opposite - leveling up too slowly. I also don't want to feel like I have to grind things out in order to raise my level - it should come naturally, not be a chore. Let's not trade one mistake for another. I'd like a balance, though admittedly that's a matter of taste and personal preference and not easy to reach regardless.

Hi Arwen, I used to use a different XP slowing mod, but I removed it and started anew with yours. I am playing on Normal. I'll let you know what else I find.

That's great! I'd be interested in your take as to how fast/slow you think your leveling is vs what you think it should be. Please post updates here with where you have been and what you have done and your level so that Arwen can hit that sweet spot.

Hmm, this is strange. I have 215xp clocked in on my xp meter, yet I'm still level 1. I do know that my game crashed while in the Beginning Shack that FWE introduces, but only once. After I reloaded the game progressed. I am guessing there's a conflict somewhere, but I can't be 100% sure.

Thanks for the updates, and please keep them coming. I'm still play testing what I hope are my final changes to version 2.1. If all goes well, I'll try to release it later today.

MouserKrieg, my mod only changes XPR values for individual actions . . . it does not make any changes to how many XP are needed for each level. So I'm guessing some other mod is causing a conflict . . . perhaps it's the result of how the other XP slower mod worked. Did you follow my instructions (in my ReadMe) on switching over from another leveling mod?

Well, my xp visual meter is half-way to 2, but for 215 xp I should be at level 2. I'm sure it's something I am doing wrong. I read the readme but I didn't think it would matter if I started a brand new game. I'll look more carefully.

Actually I'd rather level slowly than too fast. This is the problem I had with the vanilla game. I pretty much took a hiatus from the main quest, and went around exploring as much as possible. I hit the level cap, without the main quest being finished, and I just quickly lost interest. It's an RPG afterall, and without the incentive of leveling up and gaining some new perks or abilities, it's just not as interesting.

That's not the issue I'm raising. Would you be happy if you only reached level 10 after playing the entire game plus DLC's? I think not The issue is what is the sweet spot between too fast and too slow.

Ok, I didn't realize that you had started a new game AFTER you had installed my XPR mod. To be honest, I hadn't tried that myself, as I didn't think it was necessary (I did however test my mod with an earlier save, while I was at level 1, just before exiting the vault).

I just started my own new game ... just to be sure that my mod wasn't doing something weird. But I leveled up just fine when I exited Vault 101. I had 14 XP, and then received 200 XP for completing the Escape quest, and instantly leveled up. And I'm using version 2.1 of my XPR mod, which affects all the skill-based XPR.

My mod should not be causing any leveling up problem, once you have the required number of XP ... all it does is award you less XP for each successful task completion.



I tend to agree with you, as I LIKE playing better when I'm at the lower levels. I'm just not into power playing. I play RPGs as myself (or as close to myself as possible), so I try to create a character who has my strengths and weaknesses. If I'm learning something new, like using a gun, I expect to be really bad at first ... and then SLOWLY become a bit more skilled. After a couple of weeks (game weeks), I should be somewhat competent at using my gun, but I should not become an expert for a very long time.

RPGs all seem to make it way too easy to excel at any task, after a very short period of time. That's totally unrealistic, but the developers are marketing their game to a generation that demands instant-gratification.

But Grifman is right about the sweet spot ... where there's a leveling up speed that "feels" right. This is what I'm trying really hard to find. My feeling is that both versions 1.0 and 2.0 leveled up a bitt too slowly. Version 2.1 is now a bit faster, but it still really slows down the speed of leveling up. I'm nearly done testing version 2.1, and it seems to work really well so far. I just have to make sure that the disarming traps XPR is working as I want it to.

So keep the feedback coming, as I can still tweak things a bit before I release my new version.

Version 2.1 is now available: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7674

I promised that I would try to release this update today, but it took me longer to play test it than I planned.
I tried it with several of my oldest saves and even began a new game, just to make sure that my game would still level up when I exited Vault 101.

Version 2.1 Changes
===================
- Leveling up will not be quite as slow as with my previous versions (now roughly 3 times slower than default)
- Added XPR reductions for Speech Challenges and Disarming Traps (although it doesn't seem to reduce XPR for disarming Frag mines).
- Reduced XPR for kills by a factor of 4 (was using a factor of 5)
- Reduced XPR for Quest Solving by a factor of 2 (had previously been reduced the same as XPR for kills; but I figured out how to reduce XPR for kills, without also reducing quest solving).


I'm hoping that this version meets the needs of most users.

My goal was to create a single esp version that would slow the level down to an acceptable rate for most users who feel that their game levels up too fast . . . no matter how they play the game or what level of difficulty they are playing it on.

PLEASE give me feedback on this version.

I'll try this out today. One thing I've noticed and I think it's something that MMM is doing is that sometimes for kills I'll get a lot more exp than normal. Every once in a while I'll kill something that gives me 60 or 70 exp(highest I noticed was 81). As I said, I think it's something that MMM is doing and not with your addon. I don't know if it'll make a difference but I'll try loading your addon after MMM.

I'm regretting taking the increased exp perks early in the game now.

I guess if I feel this is too slow, I can always use MMM and increase the spawn rate to compensate

This is probably the best level slowing mod out now. I don't know how anyone plays this game with the regular pacing. You can cap out, even with Broken Steel's level cap increase, before you are even 30% done with the game.

My dudes level 22 so far and it's all good. I haven't noticed anymore large amounts of xp like I said I was getting earlier...but that may be because I'm doing The Pitt. I don't know if that's because I have it loading after MMM or if it's something that was changed since v2. Anyways, this new version is great.

The current version is not quite as slow as either of the previous versions . . . so please let me know how it works out for you.


Thanks for the great endorsemant! I tried really hard to find a rate that would work for most everyone, while making the reward points a bit more balanced.


Great! It's good to hear that my mod actually works past level 20 (I knew it would ... ok, so I hoped it would, since I've never been even close to level 20).

This mod works quite well alongside MMM. It's subjective, but it feels just about right to me.

just from the discussion in this thread, it seems most tweaks made by this mod are done by editing game setting variables.

any chance you could just pop up a little dialog that allows the user to pick what overall multiplier to set (give some choices x2 slower, x3 slower, etc), then when he/she says OK, it automatically edits the variables in a script.

Then everyone can adjust all they want...

My mod changes a lot of variables . . . and changes are not static, but vary quite a bit . . . some involve multipliers, some are additive, and some involve global edits. So it would be a pretty difficult script (at least for me to write). It would be easier to just make the edits and release a couple of versions.

Since releasing Version 2.1, all the feedback that I have received has been positive. No one who have actually installed my mod has yet written that it levels too slow or too fast.
With version 2.1 particularly, a person's game play has a major impact with how fast they gain XPR.

*suddenly stumbles in from nowhere*

Hey, Arwen has started modding? Good for you! I hope everything goes well

I wholeheartedly agree with your ideas, I may in fact decide to overwrite FWE's levelling changes with yours. Whenever I get back to playing that is, in other words: I can't test it at the moment, sorry

*slips back into the shadows*

Will try. I want a good leveling mod this may be the golden ticket.

Hey DuggeDank!

Yeah . . . after getting totally frustrated because I just couldn't find some mods that made the *exact* changes that I wanted, I "borrowed" the keys to the GECK, took a deep breath, and started messing around on my own . . . and I didn't even blow up the place.

I'm very much a rookie at this modding stuff, but I've already been able to make many the changes that I wanted in my game . . . so my hours (days actually) of messing around have definitely been worth it to me. I just took my "hey, I wonder what this does" nature and gave it a whirl . . . and sort of succeeded (there were a LOT more failures than successes in my methods).

My XPR mod is now where I want it, as my latest version finally does exactly what I wanted it to do, in slowing down my leveling up speed . . . in a way that adds some balance to the game.

I'm currently working on a major update to my Arwen_Realism_Tweaks mod . . . which mostly tweaks weapons and sneaking. It should be ready to release soon, if I can get my act together and finish the thing.

Are you doing any modding for FO3? (I'm hoping so, as I've been a big fan of you OB mods.)

Hi Arwen,

This mod looks rather interesting indeed! I've been using Slower Levelling up until now, but I might give this a shot as it seems far more intricate than just adjusting the iXPbumpbase as other mods do.

:)

I use this in conjunction with MMM with increased spawn. Its the only 2 mods I need thank you sir and I hope you keep working on it. B)

Hehe, well I'm glad to hear you are at least modding for yourself, and managing to keeping the ideas simple and effective. I've always had way too many ideas and too large visions to really KISS all that well (oh my, wasn't that an interesting way of expressing it ), which is also why I've been on a long modding break.

There's still many updates planned for my Ob mods, and even several new ones in the works, but I fear they will never be completed
So I've been trying to keep Fallout modding to a minimum, not that I can, but I'm at least trying to limit myself to only modding for the specific character I'm going to play, it helps a bit.
My big wish for Fallout is to include dozens of new funny weapons with schematics, making homemade weapons the rule rather than the exception. I consider it silly that such a massive amount of weapons have survived all those years, especially in the hands of supermutants... But that includes 3D modelling, and even though I've already learned some new tricks in NifSkope, it's not nearly enough.

Of course, right now I'm in a transitional state, with a new computer and Windows 7, so I haven't even bothered to install games or hook in my old hard drives yet.


Aaanyway, I'll stop rambling now, gonna have to check out your tweak mod as well then!

Sorry for resurrecting a long dead thread, but I just found this through Mod Detectives, and some searching on Arwen's site.

What's the load order for this if I wanted to use MMM as well as this modification?