[RELz] Arwen's XPR : Fallout 3

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:06 pm

Arwen's Reduced XPR:

Updated 10/14/09: Version 2.2

Why I Made this Mod:

When I first started playing Fallout 3, I soon found that I was leveling up way too fast ... which was surprising, since there are only 20 levels in the default game. There are now several mods that allow you to reach higher levels, but my mod takes a different approach, while adding a bit of RPG balance. My mod reduces the Experience Points Rewards (XPR) that you receive in the game. You earn XPR for killing creatures; solving quests (and sometimes for doing sections of a quest); disarming mines and traps; picking locks; hacking computers; and passing speech challenges. Once you gain the required amount of experience points, you level up. My mod does not alter the require number of XP you need to advance to the next level ... it just reduces the amount of XPR that you gain during gameplay, by reducing the number of points awarded for individual tasks/challenges.

Version 2.2 Changes:

- The archive now contain two esps . . . a regular/slow leveling version, and an extreme/very slow leveling version. (Only active one at a time.)
- Both versions are balanced for Normal Difficulty gameplay, but I adjusted the Difficulty Modifiers a bit differently for each (which should futher enhance their differences).
- With the game set on Normal Difficulty, the regular esp will likely result in a slightly faster leveling up pace than with version 2.1. (the extreme esp will result in a considerably slower pace).
- Reduced XP for Speech Challenges, from 75% default to 60% (40% with extreme version).
- Reduced XP for Disarming Traps, from 75% of default to 70% (50% with extreme version).
- Now also reduces XP for Secret Area Discovery by 60% of default (40% with extreme version) [This had been left at default in v.2.1].

Concept:

- This mod slows down how fast you will level up, by reducing the default Experience Points Rewards (XPR), for all difficulty levels.
- It also brings a bit more balance, by reducing XPR for killing a factor of 3 (5 with extreme version), while reducing XPR for most other achievements by only a factor of 2 or less (2.5 or less, with extreme version).
- There are however, certain events that will cause you to level up, even though you are receiving fewer Experience Points. For instance, when you leave Vault 101, you level up to Level 2 (I only had 19 out of the required 200 XPs when I exited the vault, yet I still leveled up, since you receive 200 XP when you exit the Vault).

The differences between the two esps:

- Regular version (Arwen_XPR.esp): reduces XPR for killing by 75%, and reduces XPR for most other achievements by 25-50%.
- Extreme version (Arwen_XPR_Extreme.esp): reduces XPR for killing by 80%, and reduces XPR for most other achievements by 40-60%
- The differences between my two versions may not seem like much, but I've been using the extreme version in my own game for a while, and gaining experience points is noticeably slower.
- As a test ... I played the game for nearly an hour with each esp (with virtually identical gameplay, each starting at the beginning of Level 2.
Using the Arwen_XPR.esp: I gained 169 XP (31% of what I needed to reach Level 3).
Using the Arwen_XPR_Extreme.esp: I gained only 104 XP (19% of what I needed to reach Level 3).

Changing the game Difficulty Level will still change experience gained from killing enemies (just like with the default game):

- With Default game: On Very Hard you will receive 150% more XP for a kill, while a kill on Very Easy will yield 50% less XP. For example, a Deathclaw is worth 25 XP on Very Easy, 50 XP on Normal and 75 XP on Very Hard.
- With the Arwen_XPR.esp: On Very Hard you will still receive 150% more XP for a kill, and a kill on Very Easy will still yield 50% less XP. But now a Deathclaw is only worth 7 XP on Very Easy, 15 XP on Normal and 22 XP on Very Hard.
- With the Arwen_XPR_Extreme.esp: On Very Hard you will still receive 150% more XP for a kill, and a kill on Very Easy will still yield 50% less XP. But now a Deathclaw is only worth 5 XP on Very Easy, 10 XP on Normal and 15 XP on Very Hard.

Better RPG balance:

- XPR for killing was reduced roughly by a factor of 3 (5 with extreme version)
- XPR for Lock Picking, Computer Hacking, Speech Challenges, Map Marker Discovery, Secret Area Discovery, and most Quest Solving was reduced only by a factor of 1.67 (2.5, with extreme version).
- XPR for and Disarming Traps was reduced only by a factor 1.4 (2.0, with extreme version).
- In the default game: killing a Deathclaw (on Normal Difficulty), and Hacking a Hard Computer were both worth 50 XP.
- With my Reduced XPR mod: killing a Deathclaw only gives you half the XP, as you gain by Hacking a Hard Computer terminal. [Normal version is 15 vs. 30 XP; and Extreme version is 10 vs. 20 XP.]
- So the speed that you level up will greatly depend on your gameplay ... but no matter how you play, you'll still level up much slower than with the default game.
- with the normal version, players who focus on killing will take 3 to 4 times longer to level up; while players who focus on a minimal amount of killing will take 2 to 3 times longer to level up.

This mod should work ok with all DLC, as it only touches the XP multiplier.

You should be able to use this without starting a new game (I did, but I was still at a low level).

Switching over from other mods that affect Experience Points:

Deactivate your current XP mod
Start your game and check your XP (in your stats)
If your current xp is higher than the amount that you need to level up (example: 800/550), enter the console and type in: "rewardxp -XXXX" (without the quotes) - the xxxx is the amout of xp you want to remove to get somewhere below the required amount you need to level up (in my example, I would enter "rewardxp -300", which would give me 500/550).
Make a CLEAN save (do not overwrite a previous save)
Install my xp mod
From this point on, it will take you 5 times longer to gain Experience Points.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7674

EDITED July 10, 2010: My Reduced XPR mod should no longer be used with my Realism Tweaks (v.4.7 and later) since my Realism Core module now globally reduces ALL XPR by using my XPR Multipliers (which can be easily changed in my Options Menu).

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:41 pm

I'm currently working on reducing (possibly as a separate esp) the XPR that are not affected by the multiplier.

So far this is what I have:

iXPRewardHackComputerVeryEasy = 20 --> 4 (or 5)
iXPRewardHackComputerEasy = 30 --> 6 (or 7)
iXPRewardHackComputerAverage = 40 --> 8 (or 10)
iXPRewardHackComputerHard = 50 --> 10 (or 12)
iXPRewardHackComputerVeryHard = 60 --> 12 (or 15)

iXPRewardPickLock = 20iXPRewardPickLockVeryEasy = 20 --> 4 (or 5)
iXPRewardPickLockEasy = 30 --> 6 (or 7)
iXPRewardPickLockAverage = 40 --> 8 (or 10)
iXPRewardPickLockHard = 50 --> 10 (or 12)
iXPRewardPickLockVeryHard = 60 --> 12 (or 15

iXPRewardSpeechChallengeVeryEasy = 5 --> 1
iXPRewardDiscoverMapMarker = 10 --> 2

Does anyone know of any other XPRs that are not affected by the XPR multiplier?

Also is my reduction of 5 too much?
It seems to work well in my own game, but I'm only using the version that changes the XPR multiplier.
I'm thinking that a factor of 4 might work better when I include the above XPRs.

I could really use some feedback here.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:27 pm

Version 2.0 is now available.

But, since no one gave me any feedback, I was force to rely totally on my intuition in making my Version 2.0 changes.

Changes from Version 1.0:
Version 2.0 now reduces XPR for Lock Picking, Computer Hacking, and Map Marker Discovery (version 1.0 only reduced the XPR multipliers, which only affect XPR for killing and quest solving). XPR for Speech Challenges remain unchanged.

* Better RPG balance:
XPR for killing and quest solving was reduced by a factor of 5 (the XPR multiplier)
XPR for Lock Picking, Computer Hacking, and Map Marker Discovery was reduced only by a factor of 2.
In the default game: killing a Deathclaw (on Normal Difficulty), and Hacking a Hard Computer were both worth 50 XP.
With Arwen's XPR: killing a Deathclaw only gives you 10 XP, while Hacking a Hard Computer gives you 25 XP.

iXPRewardHackComputerVeryEasy = 20 (default) --> 10
iXPRewardHackComputerEasy = 30 --> 15
iXPRewardHackComputerAverage = 40 --> 20
iXPRewardHackComputerHard = 50 --> 25
iXPRewardHackComputerVeryHard = 60 --> 30

iXPRewardPickLockVeryEasy = 20 --> 10
iXPRewardPickLockEasy = 30 --> 15
iXPRewardPickLockAverage = 40 --> 20
iXPRewardPickLockHard = 50 --> 25
iXPRewardPickLockVeryHard = 60 --> 30

iXPRewardDiscoverMapMarker = 10 --> 5

In general, if you install my XPR mod, it will take you roughly 4 times as long to gain XPs, but the speed that you level up will greatly depend on your gameplay ... but no matter how you play, you'll still level up much slower than with the default game.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7674

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:34 am

Changing the Difficulty Level will still change experience gained from killing enemies (just like with the default game)

With Default game: On Very Hard you will receive 150% of the regular experience for a kill, while a kill on Very Easy will only yield 50%. For example, a Deathclaw is worth 25 XP on Very Easy, 50 XP on Normal and 75 XP on Very Hard.
With Arwen's XPR: On Very Hard you will receive 150% of the regular experience for a kill, while a kill on Very Easy will only yield 33%. But now a Deathclaw is only worth 5 XP on Very Easy, 10 XP on Normal and 15 XP on Very Hard.

I always thought the default settings were backwards from what they should've been. I makes more sense to me to earn more experience the easier the difficulty and less the harder the difficulty.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:30 am

I always thought the default settings were backwards from what they should've been. I makes more sense to me to earn more experience the easier the difficulty and less the harder the difficulty.

On easier difficulty it is MUCH easier to kill your enemies, so if you received more XPR for killing them (than with the harder difficulty settings), you would make the problem of leveling up too fast even greater at easier difficulty settings.

My mod reduces the default XPR multipliers by a straight factor of 5. I made typo in my earlier post (I have previously played around with other settings):
"With Arwen's XPR: On Very Hard you will receive 150% of the regular experience for a kill, while a kill on Very Easy will only yield 33%."
It should be: "... a kill on Very Easy will only yield 50%"

Thanks for pointing out my typo (it also looks like an earlier setting for the Very Hard XPR multiplier snuck into version 1.0, which I corrected in version 2.0).

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:11 pm

I was looking for a good slower leveling mod and found yours, so far it's working great.

I'll post back if I encounter any issues past level 20+.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:43 am

Thanks, I'm glad it is working for you.

Unless you have Broken Steel (which allows you to level up to level 30), or a level uncapper mod, you will not be able to level up past level 20. My mod just slows down the speed of leveling up, it is not a level uncapper mod.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:55 am

Any way that you can allow us to set the leveling rate? I want to reduce the leveling rate but 1/4 of the normal experience seems way too low to me.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:07 am

Thanks, I'm glad it is working for you.

Unless you have Broken Steel (which allows you to level up to level 30), or a level uncapper mod, you will not be able to level up past level 20. My mod just slows down the speed of leveling up, it is not a level uncapper mod.

Yes, that is what he means. A lot of slower leveling mods crash the game when you start leveling over 20 with Broken Steel, so he is going to report on how your mod works over level 20.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:39 am

I must admit that I didn't read the entire post about your planned changes. I just read that it reduces xp rewards and thought "woohoo, I'll give this a shot". I think that giving people options is always good. So maybe you could make a version that doesn't reduce xp gained from quests and doing lock picking and hacking (I guess that might be version 1). And then a third version that just lowers the xp reduction amount. So instead of a factor of 5 it would be lowered by a factor 3 all around, for everything; killing, quests, hacking, and lock picking. If that makes sense?

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:13 am

On easier difficulty it is MUCH easier to kill your enemies, so if you received more XPR for killing them (than with the harder difficulty settings), you would make the problem of leveling up too fast even greater at easier difficulty settings. [...]

Yes, I know. It just makes more sense to me to earn more XP on easier difficulties (making the game easier through faster leveling compared to the harder difficulties) and less on harder difficulties (making the game harder through slower leveling compared to the easier difficulties). Earning less on easier difficulties and more on harder difficulties does the exact opposite of what the difficulty settings are supposed to do in my opinion. :shrug:

Easier to kill + more XP = easy! :snoring:

Harder to kill + less XP = hard! :ahhh:

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:37 am

I must admit that I didn't read the entire post about your planned changes. I just read that it reduces xp rewards and thought "woohoo, I'll give this a shot". I think that giving people options is always good. So maybe you could make a version that doesn't reduce xp gained from quests and doing lock picking and hacking (I guess that might be version 1). And then a third version that just lowers the xp reduction amount. So instead of a factor of 5 it would be lowered by a factor 3 all around, for everything; killing, quests, hacking, and lock picking. If that makes sense?

I only began making mods because I wanted to add some specific changes to my game that was not available in an existing mod. I've been using my XPR mod in my own game for a couple of weeks, while tweaking it until level speed was "right" for me. Version 2.0 is the result. But, in the short time that I've been releasing my mods, I've always been open to optional versions, since not everyone has exactly the same needs. But I'm new to modding, so I'm still learning, and am very much a novice in my modding ability.

XPR rewards for quest are tied into the XPR multiplier, just like killing . . . adjusting the multiplier affects both. There may be a way to reduce the killing XPR without changing the multiplier . . . I just don't know how to do that yet. (Although there is a change that I want to try out, that might do this . . . I just need time to test it out.)

My mod has two goals: to slow down level up AND to add some balance to the role-playing XPR. In the default game XPR for killing is way too high, which means that players who focus on killing level up way faster than those who focus on the less-action (less-FPS) parts of the game. But both player still level up too fast, especially when there's a 20-limit level cap (or 30, with BS). So, in my opinion, simply adjusting the XPR modifier is not enough, because it doesn't change XPR for Lock Picking, Computer Hacking, or Map Marker Discovery. But I only reduced those XPR by a factor of 2 (instead of 5), to add some balance against the killing XPR. And I haven't reduced XPR for Speech Challenges, or for Trap Disarming at all.

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but you really need to understand my changes (and my reasoning) in order to understand how my mod is affecting your game.

Because my changes do not reduce all XPR by the same factor, my XPR mod will slow down leveling up speeds differently (based on gameplay). A player who focuses mostly on killing might find that they are now taking nearly 5 times as long to level up. While a player who does a minimal amount of killing will only find that it is only taking 3 times as long to level up.

I am certainly willing to release a "lite" version of my mod, but I need to wait until I have received enough feedback to know what others actually want, as I only plan on creating one "lite" version.
My main concern is that people are not giving my XPR mod a chance. You need to use it in your game for awhile before you can tell if your new leveling rate is actually too slow.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:47 am

Just wanted to drop in my 2 cents since you seem like a nice person and your mod isn't getting much attention. As good as it may be there are a couple of mods already out (huge ones at that) that modify player experience gain as well as a bunch of other things (balance overhauls) so unless the player experience gain part of their mod gets broken most players will probably be too lazy to give your mod a chance. Looking at it from their perspective if its not broke why fix it? Since the primary reason you're modding is for you keep at it and maybe more people will come around later.

I would try the mod but I hate the concept of leveling slower for a variety of reasons.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:13 pm

Yes, I know. It just makes more sense to me to earn more XP on easier difficulties (making the game easier through faster leveling compared to the harder difficulties) and less on harder difficulties (making the game harder through slower leveling compared to the easier difficulties). Earning less on easier difficulties and more on harder difficulties does the exact opposite of what the difficulty settings are supposed to do in my opinion.

But if the multiplier was increased for the easier difficulty settings (instead of being reduced) you would also increase the speed of leveling up, so that you would hit the 20-limit cap way even sooner. It would NOT be a good idea to increase the leveling up speed for easier levels, when you already level up too fast.

Look at this like economics . . . supply and demand:
On easier settings, kills come easier, so XPR come faster, and leveling would happen way too fast if the XPR multiplier was not reduced some.
On difficult settings, kills are more difficult, so gaining XPR is slower, so leveling up would be much slower if the XPR multiplier was not increased a bit.

The intent in the default game seems to be to keep leveling speeds roughly the same, no matter what your difficulty setting is.
I tend to agree with that philosophy . . . which is why my XPR mod reduces the default XPR multipliers by a factor of 5 for all difficulty levels.
You still get 1/2 as many XPR at Very Easy (than at Normal) . . . and 1.5 times as many at Very Hard.

Rad666a's Less Experience mod reduces the default XPR multipliers differently . . . which does (in my opinion) throw this balance off a bit . . . in the wrong direction.
With the LE mod, you get 2/5 as many XPR at Very Easy (than at Normal) . . . and 2 times as many at Very Hard.
This would make you level slower at Very Easy and faster at Very Hard (as compared to reducing the multipliers by the same factor for all levels).

I'm not saying that my XPR mod is better than Rad666a's Less Experience mod . . . just that they are a bit different in how they affect XPRs.
I made my own mod when I couldn't find another mod that changed XPR exactly the way that I wanted. And I wanted changes that went beyond just the XPR multiplier, such as a 50% reduction in XPR for Map Marker Discoveries, Computer Hacking, and Lock Picking.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:12 pm

Just wanted to drop in my 2 cents since you seem like a nice person and your mod isn't getting much attention. As good as it may be there are a couple of mods already out (huge ones at that) that modify player experience gain as well as a bunch of other things (balance overhauls) so unless the player experience gain part of their mod gets broken most players will probably be too lazy to give your mod a chance. Looking at it from their perspective if its not broke why fix it? Since the primary reason you're modding is for you keep at it and maybe more people will come around later.

I would try the mod but I hate the concept of leveling slower for a variety of reasons.

Thanks! (And I am a nice person, no matter want anyone thinks of my modding ability.)

My mods are not for everyone. The only reason that I took the time to learn how to make some basic mods, was because I wanted to make some very specific changes in my own game, and became frustrated at not being able to find any mods that gave me the results I was looking for.

Personally, I don't like the huge overhauls, as they don't give me the control over the changes that I want in my game. They do too much ... often in directions that I don't want to go.
I prefer the control that I get from adding my own selection of mods ... that way, if I find a mod that does something better, I can easily swap mods.

My own mods are meant to use with the mods on http://amito.freehostia.com/Fallout/FO-mods.htm, so they are 100% compatible with all the other mods on my list. I just figured that, since I took the time to make them, that I would share them with others.

I don't view modding as a popularity contest, or as a competition. If others enjoy my mods, that's great, that's why I took the time to package them up . . . and I really do appreciate any feedback that I receive. My mods are not meant to be mainstream, but to make some small changes in ways that no one else has done. If I wanted to make a mod that got more attention, I could just make a bikini-armor mod (which I personally think are silly).

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Thanks for the explaining everything. I don't know anything about modding for the most part... besides how to use them that is. :rofl:

Anyhow, the mod is still working great. I'm using version 2 right now with MMM and I think it compliments it very nicely. But I still haven't made it past level 20 yet (I do have broken steel).

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:04 am

I am certainly willing to release a "lite" version of my mod, but I need to wait until I have received enough feedback to know what others actually want, as I only plan on creating one "lite" version.
My main concern is that people are not giving my XPR mod a chance. You need to use it in your game for awhile before you can tell if your new leveling rate is actually too slow.

No offense but I'm not sure I need to use your mod to determine a reasonable leveling rate. I can tell based upon where I have gotten in my own prior gameplay. I used another mod that reduced my leveling by 1/3 and got to level 16 without any DLC, doing most of the optional quests (I think I have about 2 or 3 I haven't done), and just getting ready to enter the vault at Little Lamplight. I figure the DLC"S, and the the Vault, Raven Rock and the Final Battle would put me at 22, give or take a level or 2. That's why I think your mod as is would be too slow. I think I'd like one that's about 1/2 of normal.

That's my estimate anyway.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:26 pm

Thanks for the explaining everything. I don't know anything about modding for the most part... besides how to use them that is. :rofl:
Anyhow, the mod is still working great. I'm using version 2 right now with MMM and I think it compliments it very nicely. But I still haven't made it past level 20 yet (I do have broken steel).

I'm pretty new at this creating mod, as I only make my first FO3 mod a few weeks ago, which is why I need people like you to give me feedback. Please do let me know if this still works well past level 20.

===================================================

No offense but I'm not sure I need to use your mod to determine a reasonable leveling rate. I can tell based upon where I have gotten in my own prior gameplay. I used another mod that reduced my leveling by 1/3 and got to level 16 without any DLC, doing most of the optional quests (I think I have about 2 or 3 I haven't done), and just getting ready to enter the vault at Little Lamplight. I figure the DLC"S, and the the Vault, Raven Rock and the Final Battle would put me at 22, give or take a level or 2. That's why I think your mod as is would be too slow. I think I'd like one that's about 1/2 of normal.

Thanks for the feedback. As far as I can tell, no other leveling mod changes the XPR exactly like mine does, so you really need to try it before you can judge it. I'm also really curious, as to what the downside of leveling too slow might be. I mean, people are using mods that let them go way past level 20 . . . so how is that any different than staying below level 20 and just slowing down the speed at which you level up? I do understand that leveling up allows you to increase your skills (and perks), but isn't one of the problems of the game the fact that you tend to get too powerful too fast?

I would not release a version of my XPR mod that just reduces the XPR multiplier by a factor of 2, since the Less Experience mod does that already. What I would consider doing is making a version that reduces the multiplier by a factor of 3 and also reduces most of the non-multiplier XPR by a factor of 1.5 ... as that would still be different enough from other leveling mods ... while still keeping inline with what I did in version 2.0. What are your feelings about those factors?

===================================================
I did figure out how to reduce XPR for NPC kills without changing the multiplier. Now I just need to figure out how to do the same with creature kills.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:37 am

I've finally managed to figure out how to reduce XPR for killing both NPCs and Creatures, without changing the multiplier (it wasn't difficult, once I figured out what to change). What this does is I can now reduce XPR for quest solving by a factor of 2, while having a greater reduction for killing.

In my next update (version 2.1) I'm currently planning on reducing the XPR multipliers by a factor of 2, along with reducing XPR for kills by an additional factor of 2.
The result would be that XPR for quest solving would be reduced by only a factor of 2 (instead of 4, in version 2.0), and XPR for kills would be reduced by a factor of 4 (instead of 5, in version 2.0)
XPR for Computer Hacking, Lock Picking, and Map Marker Discovery will still be reduced by a factor of 2 (unchanged from version 2.0)
But I'll also reduce XPR for Disarming Traps and for Speed Challenges a bit (which I did not reduce at all, in version 2.0).

The end result will be that it should take roughly 3 times as long to level up. I had a number of complaints/suggestions that version 2.0, slowed down leveling up a bit too much (as it takes roughly 4 times longer to level up).
If people still want more options, I'll consider adding an optional slightly slower version (3.5 times overall) and a slightly faster version (2.5 times overall), along with my 3.0 slower default version . . . the sweet spot seems to be around 3 times slower overall (slow enough, without taking forever to level up).

I'll try to get version 2.1 completed in a couple of days (probably released on Wed.), so if you don't like my planned changes (or if you like them), please let me know soon.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:07 pm

The changes sound good. Looking forward to testing it out.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:37 am

Is it possible to only activate the mod after getting out of the vault or would that cause problems? I started a game with this plugin installed and when I complete "Escape" I don't level up to 2 but only get halfway. The mod is doing its job, but I'm used to getting that extra level. Other than that, I'm really liking this mod.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:13 am

I'll give your mod a look when I get my new soundcard installed tomorrow. I've been running FWE + MMM, but I was leveling too fast. I added a mod called slower leveling, but it didn't feel quite right. This seems like a better approach, although the somewhat arbitrary decrease for skill based actions (hacking/lock picking etc) and exploration seem a bit iffy. I personally think slightly more XP should be granted for exploring, but not for running around killing everything. Actual kills I think should be based off of the relative difficulty of the creature, and its level in comparison to your own. If you somehow find yourself taking on a chaingun wielding supermutant at lvl 2 or so, and you manage to defeat the creature, you should be rewarded proportionately I would think, whereas low lvl raiders and such would hardly offer much (1-2 xp). In my current game, actually killing creatures hardly offers any XP - I'm rewarded more for exploration and taking on tough enemies. Something like this I think is where XP overall should go, but more fine tuned like what your mod appears to be doing.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:35 pm

Is it possible to only activate the mod after getting out of the vault or would that cause problems? I started a game with this plugin installed and when I complete "Escape" I don't level up to 2 but only get halfway. The mod is doing its job, but I'm used to getting that extra level. Other than that, I'm really liking this mod.

Yeah, I started using it with a character that was level 17 at the time, and it's been working just fine since. He's now level 20 and I haven't ran into any issues.

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:32 pm

Is it possible to only activate the mod after getting out of the vault or would that cause problems? I started a game with this plugin installed and when I complete "Escape" I don't level up to 2 but only get halfway. The mod is doing its job, but I'm used to getting that extra level. Other than that, I'm really liking this mod.

You can activate my mod any time. The only problem might be if you had been using another mod that altered experience points, but that shouldn't be a problem if you follow my ReadMe Instructions (Using with a Current Game).

I'm wondering why you didn't level up after escaping Vault 101. I've ALWAYS leveled up to level two at that point. You need 200 XP to level up to level 2, and I've always received 200 XP when I exited the vault (right after making it to the outside for the first time. What difficulty level are you playing on? (although that really shouldn't stop you from leveling up.) Are you possibly using another mod that is altering your experience points?

» Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:02 pm

I'll give your mod a look when I get my new soundcard installed tomorrow. I've been running FWE + MMM, but I was leveling too fast. I added a mod called slower leveling, but it didn't feel quite right. This seems like a better approach, although the somewhat arbitrary decrease for skill based actions (hacking/lock picking etc) and exploration seem a bit iffy. I personally think slightly more XP should be granted for exploring, but not for running around killing everything. Actual kills I think should be based off of the relative difficulty of the creature, and its level in comparison to your own. If you somehow find yourself taking on a chaingun wielding supermutant at lvl 2 or so, and you manage to defeat the creature, you should be rewarded proportionately I would think, whereas low lvl raiders and such would hardly offer much (1-2 xp). In my current game, actually killing creatures hardly offers any XP - I'm rewarded more for exploration and taking on tough enemies. Something like this I think is where XP overall should go, but more fine tuned like what your mod appears to be doing.

I'm not sure that you completely understand what my mod does. It decreases experience points rewards (XPR) for both killing and for most skill-based actions (Version 2.1, which should be available tomorrow, will alter all skill-based actions).

With version 2.0, what I did was use a higher factor (as a divider) on XPR for killing, reducing kill rewards by a factor of 5 ? which gave you only 20% of the XPR that you received in the default game.

The only skill-based XPR that I changed in version 2.0 was Lock Picking, Computer Hacking, and Mark Marker Discovery. I used a smaller factor on their XPR, reducing the default values only by a factor of 2 ? so you still received 50% of the XPR that you received in the default game.

Look at these two examples:

1.) In the default game: killing a Deathclaw (on Normal Difficulty), and Hacking a Hard Computer were both worth 50 XP. With Arwen's XPR: killing a Deathclaw now only gives you 10 XP, while Hacking a Hard Computer gives you 25 XP. Both types of XPR were reduced, but the biggest reduction was for kill rewards.

2.) In the default game, killing 2 Mole-Rats gave you the same XPR as discovering 1 new map marker (10 XPR). In version 2.0 of my mod, you have to kill 5 Mole-Rats to receive the same XPR as discovering 1 new map marker (5 XPR). [With version 2.1, you would only have to kill 4 Mole-rats, but you will also receive 2 times more XPR for solving quests (than with version 2.0)]

When I released version 2.0, I reduced the XPR multipliers for all the difficulty levels. The XPR multipliers only affect XPR for kills and for solving quests (they do not affect any skill-based rewards). I did NOT want to reduce XPR for quest solving as much as for kills, but changing the multipliers affect both. At that time, this was the only way that I knew how to reduce XPR for kills. I have since figured out how to alter kills separately from quest solving (which will be included in version 2.1).

Just like with the default game, kill reward points are based on the level of the creature or NPC that you kill, which is then factored into the difficulty level that you are playing the game on. Your own level is NOT factored in with the default game, nor with my mod (I do not know how to do that ? at least not yet).

I'm doing my best to balance the XPRs . . . but I'm pretty new at modding, so I'm still learning as I go here. If I decreased XPR for killing, and increased XPR for skill-based challenges (as you seem to be suggesting), any player who did a minimal amount of killing would actually see their leveling up speed increase (which would not be good for them). My XPR mod slows down leveling up rates for all players ? it just slows things up more for players who focus on killing.

With version 2.1: if you focus on killing, you should find that your leveling up will take roughly 3 to 4 times longer; if you do a minimal amount of killing and rely more heavily on the skill-based challenges, your leveling up should now take 2 to 3 times longer. So the average player should find that they will level up about 3 times slower with version 2.1 of my XPR mod.

(Sorry for the long explanation, but this stuff is a bit complicated for me to explain briefly ? due to my language issues.)