In the elder scrolls it is possible to become a lich, werewolf, or vampire. All of which are inherently evil, there is no denying it, yes you can rp a good any of them but their nature is dark. I was wondering if there is a higher being that a good guy could become? Are there angels or benevolent spirits of some sort? Perhaps a demi god can be born from the aedra? Idk anything of that sort. Any answer would be appreciated

Avatars. *nods* and saints. Probably reincarnations too, if possible.

So other than being particularly vitruous, how would one become one of these higher beings. Lichcraft is a process and vamp/were are diseases. Would the gods grant you this power? Who are previous individuals who had these blessings bestowed upon them?

in the TES universe, Good and Evil are subjective and relative. There is no universal Truth and no universal Morals. In fact, the "afterlife" doesn't even contain any Cosmic Justice.

So, I wouldn't say vampires, liches, and werewolves are evil. They are, however, not part of the "natural" world order of the Mundus, since these affliction were created by Daedric Princes (Molag Bal/Vaernima, and Hircine), or by usurping some of the ground rules laid down by the Aedra (Arkay vs. Mannimarco).

The closest thing to becoming a being of a higher power (subgradient?) seems to be mantelling and doing an enantiomorph. The whole "walk like them until they walk like you" sort of thing. Rather a destructive process... it isn't so much as being saintly and helping people as it is a method to reinforce the Mundus (?) against bleeding away and disintegrating. There's also CHIM, but that's not as common.

I could be wrong about some of the specifics.

I mean more as how they live. Vamps and wolves must feed off others to survive. Liches I suppose are kind of in the grey area, the whole severing your body and soul from one another just seems an evil act. Although as you said there really isn't much on afterlife so who is to say the soul is worth anything to anybody but the individual.

It just seems that any godly qualities are given in the form of armor or weapons. Never actually changing the state of the individual. The only transformation I can really think of is the blind moth priests. After obtaining so much knowledge they are struck blind but still can "see" I suppose through some higher sense. At least they do when they attack And even that isn't really a godly quality or in anyway associated with them

So do animals. Herbivores kill plants, carnivores kill creatures, omnivores do both. Mortals need to consume (kill) other organisms in order to get the nutrients they need to survive.

Vamps (since feeding alone doesn't spread the desease) aren't always evil. A
lich who manages to do the transformation properly also isn't evil, since it would keep it's
sanity. The only truely 'evil' thing mentioned would be lycanthropes. But Avatars and reincarnations can also bend either way, depending on who they are. For example, Pelinal managed to murder thousands of elves.

Pelinal also slaughtered the Khajiit before someone told him they weren't elves.

As for Lycanthropes - I dunno. They are rabid beasts when they transform, but in human form they retain their faculties. I guess it depends if transformations occur in a predictable fashion such that it can be manipulated so that, say, a person transforms in a bandit hideout or something to kill the bad guys. I dunno.

They were oppressing the human race though, sending people into slavery. And Pelinal only had the Crusader's armament, he wasn't a higher being to my knowledge? Although he does return as a spirit, usually spirits are around due to unfinished business though, so I wouldn't call that an evolution of any kind

Pelinal wasn't a simple mortal with armor. He was some sort of avatar-thing of one of the Aedra. I forget which one, I'm not really that good with the KotN lore. Shezzar, I think? So, no, he isn't the usual mortal.

And as I mentioned, Pel also butchered the Khajiit until someone told him they weren't elves. He's a crazy dude. Better to have him as a friend than an enemy, if only because you are somewhat less likely to be eviscerated.

Okay, I just went to wikiOblivion or whatever its called. Apparently Pelinal was an avatar. I think it was Shor/Akotosh one of these gods. Reminds me a bit of Hercules, does great deeds, but it a bit of a #$%! up lol. But, an avatar is a god actually taking residence in the mortal plane. How can a mortal take residence in the godly plain is what I'm asking?

Go to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page or http://www.imperial-library.info/ for your lore needs.

There is no godly plane. The Aedra "died" and they became Nirn. They do not have a plane. The "plane" of a Daedric Prince is actually the Daedric Prince itself; it doesn't inhabit a world, it decided to make itself resemble a plane[t], but it still is the plane[t].

The Aubris is like a wheel. The hub is the Mundus, the spokes are... I forget what they are. The spaces in between the spokes are empty space, collectively called the void of Oblivion. A lot of that stuff is in Vivec's Sermons, which I haven't really fully read. I'm just recalling info I've soaked up from previous threads on the Lore forums. There's the Aetherius, too, but I'm not sure where that goes in a spatial arrangement of the universe (which is probably impossible anyway). I think it's just raw magicka or something? The Dreamsleeve is the mechanic by which mortal souls go through and get stripped of their memories; it is a big soul recycler.

The spokes are the aedra, the spaces represent the daedric princes, and the aetherius can be seen in the wholes in the sky known as stars and the sun. Also, the beings living in the aetherius are not some holy being and such. They're just a bunch of spirits who fled before Mundus (the world) was created. The sun was made when Magnus fled, even though he was the architect.

And Alaisiagae, I'd remove the UESP as a source, since many misconceptions and misunderstandings seem to be linked there. Great for gameplay and quick hints. Horrid for lore.

I would say that a Saint would be the "good" version of something like a Lich. But it sort of plays to a dichotomy that doesn't exist in Tamriel. There's no true ultimate force of good or evil. The two major forces in the universe are essentially Stasis and Change. That's pretty much it. A great Divine Crusader or other such person is only good in that he opposes the forces of Padomay which seek to remake the world in a different form. In a manner of speaking the champions of Anu are upholders of a status quo. This is considered good by some and deplorable by others. The one thing that I really admire about them is that they often are the ones defending the innocent and the weak from marauding monsters, but not always.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. So basically the answer to my question is no, there is no "good" ascending there is only ascending or appearing divine/evil through action. Depending on whose viewpoint it is dictates the circumstance of the change.

O and are saints always dead before they are considered for that honor lol?

No...a lot of people are considered living Saints.

Saint Jiub of the Dunmer Temple drove the cliffracers away, which is how he became a Saint. He was later killed defending his people against the Daedra, but he was already a saint at this point.

An Altmer pilgrim named Errandil is widely regarded as the living saint of Arkay. He serves the Chapel in Leyawinn as of the events of Oblivion.

Of course there's the Divine Crusader.

Okay, I wasn't really even thinking of oblivion terms at that point lol. I was trying to think of a living saint in real life, at least for my particular religion. Closest thing would be the pope I guess. I'm sure other religions regard people as saints or incarnations.

The real world really doesn't have that much to do with Nirn. There are superficial similarities between the religious structures because they're loosely based on real world religions, but some of the rules don't apply.

I doubt the Cliffracers consider him a Saint. And I doubt the men or mer in the place where the cliffracers fled to are happy about the whole event either.

@Hellmouth: UESP is good for game-specific stuff, especially some of the quests. That's sort of Lore right there. It also has pretty pictures of people, places, and artifacts. But, yeah, TIL definitely has the most up-to-date stuff. UESP isn't rubbish, it just sometimes has a few errors or things taken out of context a bit.

Now they do Remember what happened to Vvardenfell?

Oooh, too right! Haha, there's a bit of dramatic irony. The Cliffracers would have been wiped out if Juib hadn't evicted them.

Was there any accounts of something good from lich, werewolf or vampire?..

not that I can think of, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


Oh wait, there is the Draugr Aesliip who was using his powers to maintain a barrier that prevented Solstheim from suffering the wrath of a bunch of Frost Daedra.

There's also Barilzar who allegedly turned himself into a lich to make sure nobody would fo something untoward with his enchanted ring (Barilzar's band).

On the vampire side, count Hassildor seems to be a considered as a fair an competent if reclusive ruler.

I wouldnt agree with Lycanthropes being evil -- they are primal, their intelligence reduced to an animal like state during their transformation, they are simply hunters. Is a bear or mountain lion evil because it's a predator?