I was wondering what ashlanders might have been called before there actually were any ashlands.

Velothi

Clans, Tribes. Something along those lines.

Ashlander means more then just the name for people who life there. When the Ashlands weren't there the Velothi tribes hadn't quite consolidated into the Great Houses of today. The tribes that stuck to the traditional ways were more or less pushed into the least desirable parts of Morrowind.

So in a sense, the Ashlanders were more like everybody else before there were Ashlands.

As far as can be seen anyhow. It is reasonable that they themselves have also changed greatly since those times, probably making social rituals more ingrained and extreme because of their isolation and being themselves pushed into one extreme of Dunmer culture. Velothi is a very acceptable term for them then, as all the Chimer that settled there had followed Veloth. Although you could probably still apply the term to the House Chimer at the time, they were the ones who changed, and so they then are given a new term. So like a square can be called a rectangle, we still think of rectangles and not squares when we use the term. I hope that makes sense.

I don't know about pre-Ashlands, though I'd have gone with Velothi or just plain Chimer, but Velothi is actually a very specific term in modern Morrowind: it refers to those Ashlanders who have become 'Settled Peoples'. The Dunmer in Gnisis are a good example, you can see they all have the old-style names like the Ashlanders do.

source?
I just use it as a general cultural term for all Dunmer. Like calling Iranians Persians.

MW dialogue. It's in the "Ashlander culture" topic.

...The Velothi are people of Ashlander stock who have abandoned nomadic life and settled among the native Dunmer; the Velothi are despised by their Ashlander cousins as weak and soft, while the Dunmer look down upon the Velothi as an insignificant underclass.

Huh, maybe that's why I always attached that label to the West Gash region.

I don't understand why that term is applied to those people in general. In the prophecies and a few other places, Velothi is used to refer to the Dunmer in general. Since the Chimer were never called Chimer until they actually changed, they were called Velothi back then, as followers of Veloth and not a separate race.

Perhaps Velothi is the term House Dunmer apply to those Ashlanders who come to live amongst them, as they are considered to have lived closest to how their ancestors once did, but those who continue to live in the Ashlands they still call Ashlanders.

Possibly just words gaining extra meanings and connotations over the centuries, like 'Bohemian' or 'Vandal'. Especially as the Dunmer generally call themselves 'Dunmer', 'Houseman', 'House Dunmer', etc. Perhaps 'Velothi' carries connotations of backwardness. Veloth is a respected Saint but his old teachings aren't really followed, the Psijic Endeavour seems largely forgotten and the Daedra sidelined.

Could be self-appelation too. "We're not Ashlanders anymore, we're Velothi." And they make such a big fuss out of it that the term is forever associated with them.



Good reasoning, that one's possible too.

Or in the Grazelands, Molag Amur, or West Gash.

I think the Velothi are the egg miners and commoners in places such as Vos, Ald-Ruhn, and Gnisis with ashlander-like names. As for the term Velothi, it seems the only real term that can be used to describe them; they're not really ashlanders anymore, but they're still distinguished by their Velothi ways.

I hope this isn't considered necromancing a thread, but what would you call Ashlanders who were exiled and formed their own tribe over in Summerset Isle? The Ashlanders worship their ancestors, right? And weren't their oldest ancestors once denizens of Summerset?

Ashlanders worship daedra and saints, right? http://www.imperial-library.info/zeph/TES_Tre_3.shtml#Ancestor%20worship

They're probably branded with the term "Velothi" in a degrading sense, the way a modern human refers to a thuggish brute as a "troglodyte" or "neanderthal", a previous form of the human lineage. Velothi culture is probably thought to be inferior to modern Temple Dunmer culture, and almost pagan or infantile in a way.

It's funny, but in another topic (about fifth trial):

The Ashlanders are sometimes called the Velothi, for the prophet Veloth who guided us to this land many, many centuries ago...

When you say "The Velothi are people of Ashlander stock who have abandoned nomadic life and settled among the native Dunmer", that sounds like they are more civilized than Ashlanders but not quite as refined as regular Dunmer who worship the Tribunal, so to speak. Ashlanders and Velothi are the same thing, except that the former is more barbaric and primitive than the latter. Is that right?

EDIT: Actually, I guess a bunch of Ashlandic Dunmer who moved to Summerset Isle to continue living like their ancestors and amongst the spirits of their oldest ancestors would neither be Ashlanders nor Velothi, huh?

So actually, the first usage of Velothi applies to High Elves. Chimer were High Elves before they moved to what became known as Resdayn (Morrowind). And the High Elves that wanted to to continue worshiping the Aedra as their ancestors stayed in Summerset Isle and the High Elves that wanted to worship the daedra, particularly the 3 good daedra (based off of Veloth's teachings), traveled with Veloth. Is that the whole reason why Veloth and his followers went to Resdayn, so they could establish their own way of religious beliefs and lifestyle?

As a little titbit (prompted by Paws' comments about the Chimer being called Velothi until they 'changed'), it's also worth (or is it?) noting that Savants in Morrowind will tell you that Chimer means "People of the North", not "Changed People". Interesting? Or not?

Where is it hinted that "Chimer" might mean Changed people?

Isn?t "Dunmer" what means Changed People?

ThatOneGuy told me in a PM that Ashlanders deny the Altmer philosophy that the Aedra, are in fact, direct ancestors of the Mer. Or that if they uphold it as true, they don't care to consider themselves as relatives anymore. And that's why Veloth led those Altmer out of Summerset into Resdayn, to worship what he believed were the 3 good daedra and also, since they were in disagreement with their fellow High Elves, to give them the middle finger, in a sense.
I'm paraphrasing him but that's basically it, right?

Regarding Chimer as Changed People, that's generally the accepted thing. Dunmer is Dark/Cursed People. But like I say, Savants have Chimer as Northern People.

( e.g.: http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/changed_ones.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/races/dark_elf.shtml - see Boethiah entry )

Oh I see... thanks.

I always thought The Changed Ones was in reference to Trinimac?s people, who would eventually become the orcs.

That's Pariah Folk, orsimer