The difference mostly is that Ashur actually got the Pitt working. A few years back he would have been just another Wasteland upstart trying to found a nation but he actually did it. The Pitt is probably the only faction with heavy industry, I imagine the Pitt could net lots of money by exporting steel and other metals to neighboring societies. Ashur also has a loyal army behind him. Ashur is probably around his 40's so he still has plenty of time to live. He has a very healthy child who will take over after his death. The Pitt is isolated and does not have any real enemies. All is set.

It's very unfortunate that Ashur uses slave labor, but unlike Legion he is putting them to good use. I know I wouldn't want to be a slave but as a 3rd party observer I'd say Ashur is doing everything right. After two centuries of total anarchy, little is truly evil. For all it's worth Ashur shows a lot of remorse for using slave labor, reluctantly declaring "it's just what needs to be done". By the time New Vegas happens, I imagine the Pitt's slaves have already been freed.

Besides, Ashur's motivation is in rebuilding the Pitt, finding a cure to mutations and perhaps found a more centralized, standing army, unlike Caesar who massacres thousands and enslaves the rest just to prove his point. He builds unlike Caesar who just conquers. There is a difference. Like Ashur says it, it's easier to loot a dying city because there isn't a machine that builds it for you.

Again you hit the nail on the head.

Which is great but doesn't change the fact that the Pitt is an unlivable hellhole where a fifth of everyone who inhabits it eventually turns into a ravening monster and reproduction is impossible. You simply can't build a country there no matter how much steel you make. It's a crazy pipe dream. Ashur has the ability and strength to build a functioning society one that wouldn't even need slave labor to survive but he won't because he's obsessed with a steel mill. Heavy industry isn't a necessity for rebuilding civilization.



Slavery has a way of perpetuating itself within a society. I'm sure Ashur regrets having to use slavery. I'm equally sure that between using slavery and clinging to his dream of turning the Pitt into a functioning state he'll keep bringing in slaves until he dies and those who take over won't have his moral compunctions about it. It's what they've always known. Even assuming slavery was somehow abolished the tensions between the former slaves and their masters won't suddenly go away. That's going to end in blood sooner or later.



Caesar thinks he's building too. Both want to see a better society develop out of what they're doing. Both have plans that are insane and don't make much sense outside their own heads however. Ashur's is slightly more reasonable but that's not saying much in comparison to Caesar.

Your starting to sound like the "economists" that contributed to the Recession. The fact is you can't have a sustainable strong civilization without manufacturing. One of the reasons Carthage almost destroyed Rome was because of their mercantile muscle, not their Numidian mercenaries.

I like Caesar but Ashur was incredibly done.

He hates what he is doing but he's doing it for the good of his slaves and his daughter.

Caesar: He built the second largest faction in the known wasteland.

Ashur is just a crazy guy that would wish he could be Caesar if he knew about him.

What? I don't even understand what most of this in reference to. Yes it's good for developed societies to have industry. But Ashur doesn't have a developed society yet. He's neglected everything beyond running a steel mill. Ashur's built a factory that's reliant on continual infusions of slave labor to survive not a nation. Societies don't develop around factories factories develop around societies.

Ceaser just thinks he can take anything he wants, while Ashur is more realistic.

The votes for Ashur have been steadily been 2-1 throughout the whole voting process. I think its safe to say Ashur fills a void that Caesar fails to fill.

caesar pwns

Well if you free the slaves it's not like they depart from that place. So obviously it has some appeal.


Actually I don't think they are similar in role.

Caesar is hoping to create a unified US-spanning nation without the differences of old, while Ashur just wants to build a prospering nation.

Which is why Ashur's plan is saner and more likely to work. Marcus said it best when queried about the Legion... it basically amounted to "Been there, done that... didn't work the first time."

I voted for Ashur only because he is a more interesting character because of his motivations and problems he faces. Caeser and his Legion svck but aren't really that odd in the Fallout universe. I mean come on, we have mutants running around because of a forced evolutionary virus, a faction of techno-religious nutjobs living in bunkers, zombies from 200 years ago running around, and of course a Legion of robots under the command of a 235 year old CEO in a chamber. So now are you all saying that the Neo-Roman slaving organization is to much? Come on. The breaking point shouldn't even been that. In any case I dislike the lore of the Legion only because we weren't given a proper look into cilivan areas, otherwise it might be a different story.

Clearly not enough to attract willing labor. Which is pretty understandable considering you have a 1 in 5 chance of turning into a monster, are guaranteed to contract some form of a disfiguring disease and cannot have children. All the steel in the world doesn't change that.

It's not that it's simply ridiculous. It's that ridiculous in a different way. It's ridiculous that we have giant scorpions running around with deadly venom. But that fits perfectly well with the post-apocalyptic Science! nature of the Fallout universe. How do Romans fit into that?

Honestly Pistolero beat me to anything I could have possibly said on the subject. Ashur is more "agreeable" in almost every way than Caesar, and to this day I've been unable to side with Wehrner. I would have loved to have helped the slaves at the same time but when the entire premise of doing so is handing a baby over to an unqualified imbecile, unfortunately I must choke down a section of my moral code and let Ashur stay in command. Advancements in radiation sickness therapy and medicine, a problem besetting the entire nation in places and the fact that he feels legitimate remorse about what he's forced to stoop to in order to get it done sits better with me.

Plus as always, it's a single player game and only my world matters to me in the end so I'm free to envision that the Lone Wanderer of mine tells Ashur that he can continue - for now - but if things start to run in a disagreeable fashion again, he can kiss his sub-faction goodbye.

Hmm my votes for Ashur, definitely not the big power house Caesars legion is in its prime. But his priorities are more realistic and down to earth. Imagine Ashur with all the resources of caesar and all his slaves and power. He would definitely put it to better use than Caesar slaughtering half his slaves. He could have probably built a functional sufficient nation. Caesar just wants to conquer everyone and destroy anyone in his path.

Right....how many delusional men have raised an army? Too many to count.



*cough*....Joshua Graham...

If you really went onto the wiki and read 5 pages of lore about each person, im sure id have decided, however for now im just going to say i Caesar beacause i just know more about him.

Sure, he thinks he thinks hes a "god" and some crap about mars, but thats what lore is. I mean, thay added so much story behind Caeser, however messed up it may be, plus it Caesar seems alot more familier to me, plus iv been playing Fallout NV more then Fallout 3, so iv been learned more about Caesar.

The NCR has a considerable heavy industrial base...they are building railroads and the equipment to refurbish Hoover Dam. Ashur mentions that Ronto has a strong military, they probably have at least a small industrial base. The Pitt most likely has the largest industrial base East of the Mississippi, though. He;s gotta be using that steel for something...if not trade goods perhaps to make machine tools, ect to lay the groundwork for a sustainable tech and industrial base before the Pre-War facilities fail.



Eddie wants to build a Totalitarian State that will condition future generations to blindly worship him as a God....Ashur is trying to build a society that will give future generations the luxury to condemn his methods. I found Ashur more compelling as a leader...he started out with nothing but a battered suit of T-47d and a family of scavengers, while Eddie more or less got to where he was via treachery. And who would you rather follow....a guy who takes out enemies by killing thier leaders in single combat or some cos-player wannabe "God" hiding behind his bodyguards.

If Ashur had Caesar's numbers, they'd probably just haul all the stuff they need to rebuild away from the contaminated hellhole that is The Pitt. Caesar, if he had seen and wanted the Pitt, wouldn't have given a [censored]. He'd have just gone in, taken it, and made people suffer and die for his benefit with none of Ashur's remorse - "Oh well they're gonna sicken and die, that's the way of all flesh, no attempts to save the lives of anyone - except for the Narcissistic Nonce-Queen Edward Sallow.. hey, that's me!"

While my conscience cannot fully agree with Ashur's actions, I can at least understand what he is doing. I understand that most emerging societies were built on slavery, although I detest it. His desire to end the slave cycle could be combined with the view that the people he's buying were already enslaved - at least here they have a chance.

He's a much more sympathetic character than Caesar, lore or no lore. In fact, the Lore makes Caesar into even more of an insufferable human turd. It speaks volumes to my loathing for the character that I chose to retire my only attempt at a legion playthrough after choosing the Elijah end of Dead Money.

Absolutely lol about Caesar hiding behind his body guards comment. The guy is all mouth and no balls.

Pitt slavers have nothing on the Legion. They have a larger army, are better organized and have a much larger goal and purpose.

I never did figure out the psychological profile of Ceasar....from the followers to tyrant..seems a wierd road.

and it would have been nice to know why caesar picked rome over the mongols who sacked rome. My guess is he liked the boys in skirts thing!