Is Ashur Good Or Bad

i'll give my answer once this has been moved to spoilers

That good to know

Ashur is running a forced labor camp where people are intentionally worked to death and kept in miserable conditions, that's "bad" in my book.

Yes he does have positive goals and aspirations but I don't consider this a "the ends justify the means" situation. He certainly could have pursued his research, and building up his community, without resorting to such vile methods and ruthless behavior.

All of this being said I think it's an unfair poll, part of the point of The Pitt is to give us a morally ambiguous situation. That doesn't mean that the 'good' and 'bad' labels are irrelevant, they aren't, but it still over generalizes the situation.

Yes, i agree, most people WILL think Ashur is bad. But he has some kind of point. He reminds me of Hitler: building an economy based on factory work (as Hitler did with war). Too bad he keeps everything for himself and his followers, so that makes him a dictator..

he made the tough decisions for the long term benefits. he wasn't short term self serving like wernher, he genuinely wanted to save the city and make a better future

IMO he is no worse than Wehrner is. Both have admirable goals, but both also use horrendous methods that leave much to be desired.

There is really no way of growing a city in the pitt without getting slaves, the disease and the radiation is too much, so Ashur has really no choice but to get slaves. After u kill Ashur and free the slaves, Meadia says something like " she does not know how Ashur kept the slaves from killing each other" . I believe slavery was the only way of getting things done...

He had no other choice but to get slaves to build up the city, HE has positive goals and aspirations so i believe he is good...

I've always considered him a gray character, you know?

Wehrner wanted to kidnapp/kill Ashur's baby for some monitary gain
and revenge..
Ashur uses slave labour to rebuild Americas Industrial might
and his wife found the cure for the virus within her baby..

thats a huge difference between Wehrner and Ashur.

so Ashur is on the right path, and dosn't bow down to popular
propoganda about slavery.

you gotta understand,, after the great war, its time to rebuild,
by any means nessesary. tree huggers and democratic
bleeding hearts need not apply... they just become slaves.

Having a slave labor camp is not good in my book, and while I disaprove. Ashur never lies to you, he is an honorable man, and he even admits that he feels regret at having slaves but he feels it's just something that needs to be done to rebuild. He makes the steel mill functional, he's seeking a cure to give away to destroy the sickness and pain in the city, and he's trying to restore Pittsburgh, I'd say in the moment he's bad, but in the greater picture, he's good.

I chose neutral because he has good and bad points about him. I personally like him though, he's making tough decisions, that are hard on everyone, but he genuinly wants to make The Pitt better. I think in order for the world to get back on its feet, we need more leaders like him. That aren't just trying to make everyone happy for the present moment, but trying to make the world a better place, and persevering through all the hatred, and everything thrown at him for it. I admire leaders which are willing to sacrifice their respect of others for a good cause, restoring an entire settlement, great cause. Even if it does mean extreme hardship, on everyones part.

I view Ashur's intentions as ultimately good. He wants to turn the Pitt into a production town to get the planet back to where it once was before the bombs.

However, he could improve worker living conditions.

Well in the end he always gets shot by Mr Lincoln's Repeater :wink_smile:

As I previously stated, Both of them use methods that leave much to be desired. Neither of them are good, even though they may have good intentions, neither of their ends justify the means to which they are willing accomplish those goals.

Ashur is willing to use forced labor to rebuild a city; an admirable goal, however forcing people to work without breaks or pay to the point of death is neither good nor admirable. he says he feels regret/remorse over this, but if he truly felt remorse about slavery he would cease that practice in favor of one with more favorable working conditions. Wehrner may have cut corners on the research but did provide the slaves with something to keep the rads down. That is something Ashur did not do.

Werhner is willing to kidnap and an infant, Whether for revenge or not is unacceptable, and is certainly not an admirable trait. Whether or not it was over revenge is neither here nor there, kidnapping an infant is bad no matter which way you look at it. Not only did Werhner Lie to the Lone Wanderer, but was also willing to let Ashur and all the other slavers suffer at the hands of the trogs or let The Lone Wanderer kill him to get this cure.

I stand behind my previous post and now restate that Neither Ashur nor Werhner were good. The choices present are definitely best described as morally grey, Meaning Which of the two choices bothers you the least. There is no a perfect solution in this quest, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Werhner was the selfish one because if you sided with Ashur and convince Werhner to leave, he'll say the "F" word to everybody, including the slaves. That shows he doesn't care about them and wants to promote himself to be the next honcho.

he gives them food, and shelter. more so then if they had remained in the wastes,
he also said he would free them.

Giving slaves food and shelter doesn't make it right or good, and may not even keep them alive given the horrendous working conditions.

Since we never really see the results of completing The Pitt there is no way to tell without a doubt whether or not Ashur would ever free the slaves.

Well 1 he's a boss of the slavers, and 2 he's making a cure for an infection. Neutral for me..

He had good intention, but he had to be stopped.

Good intention, but bad method.

Like when Jacen Solo became Darth Caedus in Star Wars.

That's actually a good anology.. :tops:

Nothing, and I mean nothing, can justify slavery in any form. Both protagonists are power hungry and out for their own gains. To take away a sentient being's liberty for any reason is wrong and can never be justified.

in the fallout world if the end justifys the means,, then yes, slavery is essential.
somebody had to step up to the plate, and thats what Ashur did, brave man he
is.

I think the plantation owners thought the exact same thing.