I agree with this. Maybe even more difficult.

If you want to cheat that badly (and it is a cheat, as it's an extremely powerful ability with the game not designed for it), use mods. If you're on a console, then hope they'll allow user mods or the in-game console, or consider the PC version instead.

I also wouldn't say it takes no development time... you have no idea what it would take to make sure A) that it even works (isn't buggy), B) that it doesn't leave the game in an uncompletable state (eg, the game moved you forward in a quest assuming you have a set of perks, but then you switched them out afterward, then later you need them and can't go back to change them), and C) that it will even function as you expect (I've already mentioned a problem: perks have skill requirements, so to even switch to another set of perks you have to have other skills levelled, but the game encourages specialization so that's not likely to be the case; plus, once you reach level 50, leveling slows dramatically).

Can't be bothered to read 5 pages of posts, just giving my twopence worth :

Re-assigning perks, huh? Why not re-assign skills, get a chance to redo all failed quests, and change race halfway through as well? I would hate to spend good money on a game that actually offered replay value, why not do absolutely everything in one play, decisions and consequences, who needs them? What if I am a master of conjuration, then find out the creatures I summon don't one hit everything I come across, why can't I spend all the points in it on destruction instead? Oh no, still not one hitting, I want to change it all to backstabs, why should the game punish me for not being bothered to start a new character? Obviously there must be too many games with choices, detailed character progression, and variable narrative these days, what we are lacking is a game that allows you to all things without consequence. Role playing, what is the point? As long as the system allows your character to gain all advantages and be as powerful as possible, sounds good.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

NO!

t's no more cheating than the re loading a save because things didn't go your way or changing the difficulty because your finding a battle too hard. Who exactly am I cheating any way? it's a single player game doing any of the above has no impact on anyone else.



It's an extension of the level up screen plus a skill editor. It's already part of the in game console anyway allowing access to it through an in game menu shouldn't be too problematic.




Simple you either allow it only to be used when there are no active quests, or you allow it to be used more than once. besides it would make sense if my new mage character couldn't finish what my old warrior started



I'd expect to edit my skill points also and then have my choice of perks restricted based on the skills I set.

The kind of organisation who finds someone who managed to diagnose and cure every plague he meets despite no one knowing how he did it.
The kind of army who finds someone who just seems to be incapable of losing a battle despite him in theory being a bad tactician.

Qualifications are nothing compared to accomplishments. Qualifications are just pieces of paper; it is what you are able to do that matters. I cure the sick? I am a doctor. I win wars? I am a military leader. Lack of qualifications hardly matters when results are obtained anyway.

Yeah.. right.
Im really dont like two word posts in other people or I would leave it with those two words.

Yeah.. right.
Reaching for straws really doesnt give your argument validity.
In the game there are guilds for many different skillsets. Thieves, fighters and mages being three of them.
It makes absolutely no sense to advance in the mages guild if you are a lvl 1 and have no skills of the guild.
Its bad design and no amount of corkscrew logic can change that.

Fortunately this is the feature of Oblivion most criticised apart from level scaling so I have absolutely no doubt that for Skyrim we will go back to a system that actually makes sense. Where you need to advance the skillset associated with the guild to advance in the guild.

Reloading because things simply didn't go your way is a cheat (the Daggerfall manual even recommends against doing that), but the ability to do so is a necessary evil. Changing the difficulty because it's too hard is a completely different issue. The game is designed to work with the lower difficulty, and it would be required for you to be able to play at all.


Having access to it and making sure it works properly are two separate things. The game is designed for perks and perk selection to work a certain way -- being able to bring up the level-up screen at any random point doesn't mean it'll work, and just because the in-game console is more flexible doesn't mean it'll work (quite a few things you could do in Oblivion's console would lead to a completely broken game, if not crashes). And before you say anything, the reason the console is allowed to work that way is because it's a debugging tool left over from development. It's used during development to see what works, what doesn't, and to help track down bugs. They simply don't remove it.


So now you have to think about how, when, and where it can be used, and make sure it's designed in such a way to not break from that, and test it to make sure it works that way. So much for no development time...


... seriously? In the core game that they want you to play... seriously?

I believe you must live with the consequences of your decision.

I can't go to college for 10 years to learn about medicine only to decide that I should be an engineer and just erase my memories and start over.

So the game already allows players to cheat that was my point. And the game is not competitive anyway so the issue of cheating is moot. me cheating doesn't affect you at all.



Come to think of it this was already in main game Oblivion and Fallout 3 after the tutorial dungeon you get the option to remake your character so will this likely be in Skyrim also, all i'm asking for is access to it mid playtrough as starting from scratch is tedious and time consuming.


Guess you missed the "or make available more than once" I.E make it a permanent fixture in the options menu to use as often as one desires



I don't see any good reason why not. it would allow me and those to experience various play styles with out the massive investment in time and boredom starting again entails without detracting anything for the experience of those who would not use it

I could live with opening everything up after completing the main quest. Then you can play around with perks a little and make decisions about which perks you should get the next time you play through. I don't think you should be able to change them mid-game though. It's just too easy a way out. Or you should be able to do it at some high cost in terms of money or perhaps skill.

Lots of "they should force people to play how I want them to" vibes in this topic. I never understand that. If you don't like a feature like this then... don't use it? If someone is a doctor in real life they can never learn to be an engineer? It doesn't work that way.

I think the feature to re-pick them should be implemented even if it's not in the standard game, such as a console command. I'm a fan of the idea of questing to do it as well. I wouldn't be hugely disappointed if you can't, since I'm sure the console could fix any huge mistakes, but Bethesda has said many times that you can play their game however you choose and if you want to make many different character's that's fine and if you want one character that's fine too.

Why are people so extreme about everything. Why just don't do like D&D? Every level when you pick a new perk, you can re-assign ONE old perk. In real life you can get bad at stuff just as you get good at new things, so it is not an immersion breaker. Sounds OK and it is not too powerful or too unobtainable.

It does if it takes time out of their development schedule that could be used to do other things, like, say, finish werewolves or spell combos or mounts or something.


Different. For one, that's very early in the game, and for another, 2/3rds of what it let you modify is no longer an option (class and birthsign). Those were drastic, game-changing decisions you had to make at the start, so they gave you one final chance before actually starting the game, in case you made a mistake since you couldn't change it afterward. Skyrim no longer gives such drastic choices early on. A few bad perk choices are not on the same scale.


Are you really experiencing the play-style if you just respec yourself to maximum? Part of the experience is in levelling with it, going through the dangers and becoming better. If you reach level 50, decide you don't want to be a mage anymore and switch it all over to warrior, you missed the majority of the experience of playing a warrior because you're already maxed out; you're already "done". The experience is in the journey, not the destination.

I doubt it would take that much time out of the schedule at all since it'll likely be in there anyway under a different guise.



It's the same concept and demonstrates that it is already been tried and tested in previous games.



The point is i've already done the journey it's not as fun that second time around as the sense of discovery and surprise is gone, I know how the dungeons are laid out, i know how where things/places are in the world, i know the story, i know the quests. Yeah maybe there will be a few places I didn't visit first time through or some quests i can do a bit differently but much of it will dull repetion and a waste of my time. If you want start from scratch you still can if that's what floats your boat..

^ the only productive one of us so far

I doubt it would be as simple as you're suggesting, whether or not the base functionality is there. If it's not properly designed and tested, something like this is easy to break the game -- to make it crash or be unplayable.


It's not the same concept. It's 3 major game-changing choices in the first hour or two of gameplay, and it gives you exactly one chance to change it when you complete the tutorial. It was done by necessity (which is no longer a necessity as those choices are no longer there in Skyrim).


Luckilly Skyrim is going to help change this. With Radiant Story, quests can be modfied and tailored to your play-style, and who you know, like, and dislike. A good mage can have a different experience than an evil fighter, which can be different than a self-serving thief. Encounters you have as one character, may be skipped completely with another, or play out differently by knowing different people. Quest targets and even quest givers can change.

Plus, you'd be surprised how much of an effect changing up your play-style has on gameplay. Yeah, you may know where things are, and you may be familiar with some dungeons, but again, it's in the journey. How you get through it, what your tactics are, what you loot (different character types want/need different things), and stuff like that makes for very diferent experiences. Skyrim is taking this up a notch.

Too bad that nobody (especially developers) is going to read 120 posts of negative answers or about what is cheating just to see one smart thought.

I don't really want to see this. In games like Mass Effect it's OK, but still somewhat jarring, even though everything stays within it's own "class" (Biotics can't become Soldiers in this manner). In Skyrim it would be so ridiculous to play for 200 hours as a Knight, who's spent his entire life learning skills and tricks (AKA Perks) for his trade, to then wake up one morning and forget everything he knew about being a Knight and became a Master Thief instead.

I'm sorry, but it would just be too ludicrous.

You would have a combination of skills and perks, lots of perks would depend on skill levels, getting the top perks would require that you have invested a lot of time raising the skill, chances that you have another skill with high level but few perks on is low.

Yes people might want to switch from blade to blunt perks or similar inside the same skill, I say start another character or use a console command. Do not think this fits in the game.
Perhaps a undo functionality who let you choose the last perk again if you don't like it.

Not necessarily. The character could just be someone who likes stirring up trouble, pitting each faction against each other to fuel the fires of the conflict. In that case though, the quest should take on a different nature and be quite different than the two where you choose a specific side. It would basically have to be a different quest altogether.

As far as I know you can choose not to assign perks, you are not forced to spend them on level up like in Fallout 3.

A very good idea since you might look for a perk who require archery 75 and levelled up while it was 74, so you could not select it and none of the other perks look as interesting. Perhaps the next perk you want is also another you don't qualify for either.
This was not a huge problem in Fallout 3 as you assigned skill point and set them so you could get the perk.
In Skyrim this would give much of the forced gameplay in Oblivion where you not trained skills and avoid using other to get over the perk level at level up.

Agreed.

What the hell are you talking about, you've never been able to do that in D&D. Once you choose a feat, you're stuck with it. In fact I can't think of a single game where that kind of thing was possible. Having that ability would result in a wimpy game that no one would be able to take seriously.

I'll believe that when I see it.



I have actually tried second characters in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. I'm lucky if I get any of them to level 10 or so before the sense deja vu puts me off.