Skills are redundant. Who needs them? All this talk about assigning/reassigning and getting stuck with picking the wrong perks just reeks of a spreadsheetyness that is totally against the new way of TES thinking.

There should just be one skill. And for the sake of cutting out the all hints of redundancy this skill can also be all of your attributes and your health bars wrapped into one! This will be natural evolution at its most pristine!

This skill/attribute/health bar will naturally be called Flatulence.

You will have one Flatulence meter and 400 perks to guide you in making the most flatulent character around. You only get to pick 50 of these flatulent perks, but don't worry, you can pick them in any order and trade them out for new ones whenever you want.

There will be perks for tone, odor, rapid fire, silent but deadly....the whole gamut will be covered, except for the oft-desired levitated fart, that one stumped us.

It isnt an excessive reaction because it IS a core philosophy, [Having to make choices and having to live with the consequences of the choices you make] If you knew going into it that you had absolutely no consequences



Also agree with this 100%




this must seriously be a joke

It impacts everyone else GREATLY in the fact that the whole point of including consequence in the game is suddenly destroyed/erased right from the beginning.

also after reading "I'd expect to edit my skill points also and then have my choice of perks restricted based on the skills I set." it seems that sarusa might just be trolling everyone thats kind of ridiculous.

or wait i have an idea, if you want to reset all your stats entirely as well as your perks and everything youve ever done in the game, you could...dun dun dunnn make a new character and play the way you want to play (ie: the point of the game)

it does ruin it for everyone else by eliminating that thought of consequence

this doesnt make much sense, accomplishments or not you would never be granted those positions without qualifications unless you were dealing with people who had nowhere else to go

In 4e you can make one change when you level up if i remember well, but its really not important whether that is true or not. It is a fine practice

say hello to the end if the biggest reason for a character restart.... A different playtype. this would essentially make the one character you make be able to do anything. what's the point if making a new character then?

Reassigned perks < greater replayability.

I just had a look around and didn't see anything about being able to do that. Granted the sources I examined where somewhat limited, but I'd very surprised if that were the case. It would be very poor game design if that were true.



No it's not, it's a wimpy one meant only for people who want to make some sort of munchkin build. It would make the whole concept of character creation meaningless.

D&D 4e Players Handbook, page 28, Retraining

It is not wimpy. What if a given perk doesn't work you thought it works, or something like that.
Lets say you are lvl 10 and you want to change your character from a warrior to a mage. You would need to reach lvl 20 to change all perks from warior to mage, that is a lot of time. It is not bad, and has sense in RL
One change when you level up is a very little change in a sense of character at that point, but will be very important later on.

you should be able to, but there is a price for actually doing it

It's not a joke. you can still live with the consequences of your choices as you don't have to use an optional feature, the same way you don't have to fast travel (i don't), or reload your save, or turn the difficulty down. It has no impact on you what so ever.

And the whole reason I'm for this is because starting a new character is an exercise in tedium for me.

It doesn't make the least bit of sense compared to real life. As I mentioned earlier, if I get a history degree from a university and decide I want to switch to biology, my knowledge base doesn't suddenly change so that I have an immediate understanding of my new field. I have to start from scratch, all the while still retaining my historical knowledge. If D&D is moving in such a munchkin direction, I can fully understand why so many people are complaining about the 4th edition changes, and I will never want to play another D&D game again. It's a really bad game design and will result in completely mindless games that pose very little challenge.

C'mon man! That's too much innovation all at once! Suggest it for TESVI: Whichever European-like Province is Left.

No.
and saying it should be implemented as an option, well the same can be said for all the other ideas put on these forums.
You can always get it for PC, and mod it if you want.
Particular perks should only be available depending on what your character has been doing, skill-wise. That is a good enough game mechanic since we are not choosing a class anymore.

you should– for a exorbitant price.

I see, so youre just lazy then and thats it lol.

And your argument can go the same way for you, you can choose not to be lazy and just make a new character as the game is designed for that.

And its not the same as fast traveling or reloading game saves its about the entire feel of the game (your actions and decisions have consequences and affect the way you turn out.) Knowing that feel the game is suppose to be going for is taken away right from the start sort of detracts from the play.

but i think ill probably stop replying now because you stated your reasoning for wanting it was because other methods that allow you to do exactly what you want were (an exercise in tedium)

Yes, just like it would be easier to eliminate all of the objectives in a quest and replace all weapons with a "win" button that you press to finish everything.

Agreed.

I'm not lazy I have a fulltime job and a family. I play games for fun the moment it becomes a chore I stop, second characters involve exploring areas i've already explored, doing quests i've already done, meeting characters I've already met and so on, it is tedious, a waste of my time and a chore.

And no the argument does not work both ways a second characters are already available in the game.

Except for the new radiant story taking you to different areas and youd be experiencing a whole different set of perks and you could play the game a completely different way because of the new radiant story alone exponentially increasing the replayability, and i think most all of us have full time jobs and families so im not sure why you keep using that as an excuse.

I can't see any reason to leave the option out for those who want it. People here seem to think it'd be all about changing your entire character - yet your skills wouldn't change which would limit that. It'd be mainly for those who feel they made a mistake in picking up perks they end up not getting enough use out of - in FO3 and NV some perks looked good on paper but weren't so great in practice, the same could be true for Skyrim. Plus who cares if some people decide they want to change playstyle without re-starting? It won't force you to do so.

I'm very sceptical about radiant story, I highly doubt it'll be a whole new experience the quest will just have randomised locations/givers and if i've already been to all the locations and already and done the quest already it's not going to add much at all. Not to mention radiant story doesn't affect the layout of the world.

oh having a family and job is not an excuse it's perfectly good reason why I don't want to/am not able sink several hundred hours into a second character after already sinking several hundred hours into my first. I'd rather respec my first when i'm finished with him.

Character development:
The change in characterization of a dynamic character, who changes over the course of a narrative.

Character advancement:
Increase in scores and other changes of a game character.

Well, I want character development. A mage turning into a warrior, very intriguing...

Also starting clean and keeping racial differences is possible:

1. Hidden attributes. They are there but invisible.

2. If there are no attributes at all. A simple mechanic. Different H/M/S multipliers for each race, two level 50(even 2 actually) characters from different races will be different even if they choose everything the same way. (same H/M/S ratios, same perks, even same skill progression which we're talking about 18 skills and 0-100 range... Close to impossible.)

Skyrim should have laser guns. If you don't like them, you can choose not to use them. Also there should be cowboys and aliens. If you don't like them, don't look at them. They won't affect you in any way. There should also be a big red button to kill any monster instantly. If you don't like it, don't press it.

Valid argument, or not?

I understand that you have time constraints. I understand that you want to see and do everything there is to see and do in a 200+ hour game ... in 30 hours. I understand that once you see a dungeon or town, you never want to see it again. I understand that there are valid and good reasons for you to want a respec feature. Honest! I'm being a little sarcastic about it, but I get it.

But you have to understand that the inclusion of a feature does have implications for those who don't like it, and that there are good and valid reasons for some people not to like this one. Once you can admit that, then the conversation can proceed. Until you do, your argument can make no progress.

Good luck

I was talking about one change per level, that is not sudden total change! That is a slow change.

OK, It is not realistic to be lvl 25 pure warior and end up lvl 50 pure wizard of course but that is just a extreme that no one is going to do, and you gain nothing by doing it. It is a reality breaker as is the fact that taking a bath is not necessary (or possible) in the game
However if you start playing a spellsword and you decide that you want to be pure mage, you can become that in a number of levels that is equal to amount of perks you want to change (which is in at case a lot)
But you have to realize that nobody is going to turn his character around completely, they are going to recycle a few perks and thats all. If you try to turn character around you will face enemies your level and have skill at much lower level so it will be hard and boring to do so.
What we want is not to have to exploit save/load to change some mistakes.
This is a feature which doesn't exist if you don't need it, and you probably wont need it

To me, this is incredibly key. Leveling in Fallout was always great, of course, but often it was also annoying. You couldn't even save the game before choosing a new Perk. I often went back to a previous save just to avoid leveling when I wasn't prepared!

I don't like the idea of respecs, and I don't think they should be in the game. But I DO like the idea of being able to think over a leveling decision before being forced to choose.

I'm hopeful that the whole constellation thing will mean that we don't level anyway until we take the time to stop and look at the sky, and that we'll be able to leave that interface without committing to anything if we like.

Not even remotely anologous.



I'm well aware people may not want to respec their character for various reasons: roleplaying, realism, wanting face the consequence of their choices, etc. In fact I will likely stick with one character un-edited for much of game for those very reasons also. However when finished with that character I like the option to try a different one with having to go back square one and repeat much of what I have already done. I really can't see how this impacts anyone else's playthroughs at all. The inclusion of point and click fast travel had no effect on my Oblivion play through as I did not use it, it's the same concept.

All I see in this thread is spiteful people demanding that everyone should play with the same set of rules they do without any option to do otherwise.