Yeah, I'm with you. We will get what we get when it comes out. I for one am happy with the what they have added.

not so much ranting as trying to clarify what Game-Informer said, which people can't seem to understand

That sounds like exactly what might have happened. Bringing perks into the game and getting them dialed in and balanced could very well be the driving force behind many of these changes.



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Besides, perks weren't a "fallout thing". Perks were originally in Daggerfall in some incarnation. Then they brought them back with Oblivion in a different incarnation. Fallout just took the perk system to a new level and when it worked out to a point, they are tweaking it even more to make it work for TES in a possibly perfected form. It's been on it's way to us through two TES games already, it's not like it's just showing up and saying surprise.

Are the people preaching that Athletics was a stealth skill forgetting that it is actually a combat skill?

What's with all the people arguing that removing features they don't care about is good? If you don't care about it why say anything, other people do, let them do the caring. The only motivation seems to be that you'd want other people to be sad.

Uh, from what I've heard, Speed is gone, bro.

So without Speed as an attribute, and Athletics as a skill, there will be nothing left to govern how fast our movement is. Therefore, EVERYONE will run at the same speed. And what fun is that?

True...

My concerns stem from the invisible barriers prevalent in New Vegas. It just seemed like such a cop-out to me.

We don't know for sure that attributes are gone. The only basis for that assumption (that I'm aware of, at least) is that they didn't appear in the same screen as the skills in one of the Game Informer screenshots. If attributes are still in, then athletics might have been cut. We'll certainly have to wait for confirmation on this.

New Vegas was made by Obsidian. Bethesda is slightly better with handling invisible barriers and such, hopefully they've improved even more.

I didn't say Attributes in general were cut, just Speed. In fact, I heard only both Speed and Luck were cut, mostly because people focused more on leveling Athletics than raising Speed to increase their, well... speed, and Luck was mostly useless overall in Oblivion. Which it basically was seeing as most formulas in the game didn't even have Luck in them.

I have seen some speculation on luck and speed being removed, but it is still speculation at this point (though there are some valid points raised). It would make make to cut Speed as an attribute and have movement speed based only on athletics, but nothing is known definitively right now.

It would not surprise me if athletics and acrobatics become simply folded into Speed, because they increase over time for every character and with the combat system and exploration everyone uses them. I don't think they will be separate skills though. For all we know with sprint added, running speeds stay relatively constant no matter what kind of character you are.

Sneak might have all the perks for stealthers, but it would probably be adjusted to give a lot of powerful perks but level up slower than it used to as a result. Thus, no unfair sneaking bonuses for warriors since they still wouldn't use it enough to gain good perks. Skills are always balanced to level up appropriately across all of the various character types. It might be a different balance than the past due to not being skills, but it probably would be a big change anyway.

Wow so you never played a stealth class thats cool.

So i liked to hop on top of building while behind pursued and shot at; and sometimes JUMP over an enemy land behind him and go KAPOW; so yes it adds fun maybe not for "im a warrior stomp stomp" be for stealth classes its win.

Athletics could control Sprint amount; Basically how fast your stamina reduces when sprinting HIGH athletics it reduces slowly. So if you have high stamina+high athletics your an Olympian sprinter.

ALSO before you go well herp the durp we can just combine those all, yeah we could also combine all the skills into three groups; stealth, combat, magic then you might as well call the game fable at that point.