Fixed that for ya.

Don't pick those perks then.

I think that your stuck in the mentality of Morrowind. Everyone wants acrobatics back to Morrowind so that you can jump over the empire state building when your maxed out.... As for athletics, it has definitely outlived it's usefulness also. You can have other things in the game that are tied to something else increase your run speed and jump height instead of taking up an entire skill slot. You can still alter your run speed and jump height, but now you don't have to waste skill points to do that.

I hope with open cities and towns they have brought Acrobatics more in line with Morrowind, where you could actually use it to get to a better position for sniping or escape a pursuer, rather than just for silly extremely situation perks like water jumping.

What are you talking about? Dude said Acro and Athletics were pointless, which they are not.

Yeah, I quite liked hopping around at break-neck speeds as an Argonian in Oblivion, it really gave the character a nice distinction from my other characters, and as others have said, it is useful for escaping enemies or getting a vantage point.

What? The point is, the speed and jumping height and stuff should be an ADVANTAGE to stealth characters. If combat characters and magic characters also can have them, then there's much less point to being a stealth character. Why don't we also make perks for spells so that a combat-based character can do everything a mage character can, eh?

Another misleading thread title. <_<

Interesting.

As for Acrobatics' demise, I shudder to think that would be the way to keep nosy players from reaching places on the map where Dev's wouldn't want us to see the cracks in their beautifully landscaped world.

I'm thoroughly disturbed by this, as a predominately stealth player.

You choose the perks you want. If you are stealth than pick stealth perks. You can even upgrade your stamina pool upon level ups which in turn should increase your speed/jumping ability? What's the problem?

I wouldn't want increasing my stamina=increase in jump height.

Why not? Perks will not harm the level system. You could be a warrior character but still choose sneak as a major and max it out before so its not like there has ever been a barrier on what type of xharacter you play. You want a stealth character and you don't want jumping to be affected by stamina increase? Pick perks then which will raise speed and jumping. There will be plenty of stealth perks I'm sure.

They said you can go anywhere you see, so I don't think that willbe an issue.

Just because I have a high stamina doesn't mean I'm automatically a good jumper, that would be stupid.

I agree with you completely. Being able to go anywhere and do anything is the mark of a sandbox game, and that is part of the reason so many people hate invisible walls.

Stealth has so many great elements for me. Being able to sneak by many opponents, being able to run away if you are caught and being able to kill enemies without being spotted are all wonderful aspects. I would truly hate for one of my options to be taken away. I can imagine the situation now:

:stealthy stealthy stealthy:
:gets caught:
:loads earlier save:

Pick perks people. They are your friends. There will be plenty of perks foe you stealthy characters. What's the problem?

Because if you choose sneak as a major skill, than that's using up your effort on skills, which are and will continue to be THE MAIN FOCUS of the game. Under that idea, you could make a total warrior character who still has the advantages of a stealth character without sacrificing any level of warriorness. I don't want all the stealth stuff to be put into perks. I want to dynamically get better at jumping the more I do it. Combined with athletics, it's MORE than enough to warrant a skill spot. You won't see them putting things like blade and blunt as perks (or I'll be very annoyed if they do). Athletics/acrobatics is a big part of being a stealth character. Running, sprinting, jumping, swimming, falling. This deserves it's own skill.

You can't make a stealthy character entirely out of perks. They should be for minor things at most (personally I don't like them anyway, I prefer it all be level based), not things that deserve entire skill slots. This will make less and less reason to choose stealth skills because it'll be such an incomplete playstyle and you'll need to use up all your perks to get stuff which should be a part of it. How are they going to make 6 stealth skills if they cut acrobatics/athletics out, given that they'd also have to join speechcraft and mercantile to stop them from being useless?

The problem is that you aren't solving our problems, we want stealth characters to be notable faster than combat/magic oriented characters unless they make sacrifices in other areas. We don't want everyone to have an equal speed, we want to be fast because that is one of the defining attributes of stealth.

They are useless...as skills. The bonuses they gave are useful and can/are repurposed in the game in other ways.



That is solving the problem. To get speed perks you have to lose perks somewhere else. It's not like as you level up everyone gets the same perks. Perks diversify characters even more than they did in the past because it's an entirely different aspect of stat changes. Also, if you say that "Well everyone is going to pick the speed perks so we are still just as fast" well the same goes for stats, everyone is just going to pick athletics and Acrobatics and everyone will have the same speed. I for one will not be picking speed perks because I don't need speed when everyone falls before me as a pile of ash.

They're not useless as skills even individually, which is why I choose them, and if combined, could be perfectly good skills. They are too major bonuses to be given to perks and if that was done there would be much less purpose in choosing a stealth path skillwise.

Well, athletics and acrobatics weren't really a stealth path in the first place. They are pretty much "Get them on every character" skills, which is what I think Bethesda wants to get rid of. If every character gets them then that's two less skills of diversity.

This. Exactly what I've been trying to say.

No, they're not. They're stealth skills. Putting them as perks is what will make them "get them on every character" aspects. A thief should be faster than a barbarian warrior. An assassin should be able to jump higher than a conjurer.

Yes, but unless they have heavily revamped running speeds versus alternate methods of transportation, I can see everyone picking up the speed perk. Fast characters should be able to move roughly 50% faster than the slow ones while running. Can you seriously say that you wouldn't run 50% faster all the time at the cost of only one perk? Especially when we're getting 50 of them, a single perk would be trivial compared with the bonuses increased speed would grant.

If they are making perks have many levels, I could see this issue being balanced. If each rank only gave 10% and could be taken 5 times, I can see how taking that would be a serious sacrifice when they could be taking many other perks instead.