Yea, it totally will, so wha, assassins and stuff can be longer be acrobatic and jump from rooftop to rooftop? god dammit >.< that was like one favourite way of playing. And even if they do make perks for it, it will be like 3 set degrees of jumping instead of a slow progression. That is absolutely terrible, why even remove the darn skill whats the point if you're gonna make it a perk anyway? to make it worse? And if there isno way to increase these things, why on earth would you restrict characters like this if not simply to make lazy dungeons designs?!

I'm sure they could tie speed and jump height into fatigue. I mean, being able to ninja-jump onto rooftops is pretty important. haha

Perks are associated with a skill. With Athletics and Acrobatics removed, what skill would jump and movement perks be associated with? (The answer is none.) All we are gonna get more stamina so we can run MORE or jump MORE, not better.

There can also be perk trees related to attributes. Health, magicka, stamina.
And those associated with governing constellations. Mage, warrior, thief.
And special ones from quest rewards or various other ways.

Thief, stamina and special all could have a perk or perk tree related to speed or jumping height.

I don't really care about Athletics & Acrobatics Removed

I like the Sprint Option more Especially when they have Acrobatics Combo like Free running

Your on a Roof of a House or whatever Jump to another House or Whatever but you failed jumping on the other side you have a chance you hang and you can then Jump Back Jump Up or Climb

Or when you are standing against a wall you Sprint and press jump when running to the Wall you do a Wallrun and when you jump backwards you then make a Backflip (Imagine doing this when a Dragon Attack you and your Standing against a Tree you just Wallrun on the tree and Do a Backflip so you get at the back of the Dragon and when your at the back of the Dragon you can easily Shoot or Slash the Dragons Head)

And many more Freerunning Tricks with Sprinting & Jumping

i don't care about Athletics & Acrobatics Removed as long there is Sprint and Acrobatics Combo(Tricks)

Adding jump height and possibly a general speed increase as perks would be the best thing ever. Anyone really miss having to jump around the map 10000 times to get your acrobatics to 100? not me.

I think i can see a way of having progressive speed and jump without having any attributes or skills related to those actions. Race will determine who starts where and after that your characters abilities are determined by overall level increasing each level based on a race specific multiplier with different ceilings for different races. See we don't need attributes anymore.

Ummm... the numbers you're talking about - the "who starts where" and "abilities... determined by overall level" ARE attributes. Exactly what you've done is to propose attributes of speed and jump height. Not calling them that doesn't alter the fact that that's what they are.

Speed and jump height should be determined by a combination of factors - including but possibly not limited to race, height, weight, encumbrance and the amount of time one has spent running and jumping. Increases should be entirely in the background - as your character runs more, s/he gets faster. As s/he jumps more, s/he comes to be able to jump higher and further. Those abilities should start at a particular point, governed by race, height and weight, and should have caps also determined by race, height and weight. And they should always (and I mean always, no matter what your skill level might be) be modified by encumbrance. Stamina shouldn't enter into it at all, really - that doesn't determine how fast you can run or how far you can jump, but how long you can continue running or continue jumping.

I don't expect that it'll be even vaguely like that though.....

Did you play fallout 3?

Attributes as everyone see's them are tangible numbers that you can see in game. It's utterly foolish of everyone to assume that the apparent removal of attributes means that those mechanics they were tied to have been completely removed from the game. Especially in light of the fact that it has been officially stated that those mechanics are still present. And honestly removing 2 skills from the UI and leveling them up automatically is not the end of all things when you couldn't avoid leveling those two skills before even if you wanted to so they leveled automatically already.

I'm not sure when I last saw a nominal response that had less to do with anything I actually said......

The answer is Stealth, obviously. I mean, Silent Running, Pickpocketing and Dagger perks won't be enough to fill it's perk quota, would they?

Is any kind of climbing in, BTW? At least something like in Crysis 2? Jumping without ledge-grabbing in first person is _sooo_ tedious....

We aren't the only ones here you know, i was speaking for the most part to all posters in this thread about the general consensus here. You picked me out but now I've said all i have to say. There are plenty of other people i'm sure would love to argue with you though.

I see alot of people dont understand what todd said.

In SKYRIM early on there were atributes... there NEVER were athletics nor acrobatics.. they never existed neither did mysicism.

As SKYRIM progressed they relized that in SKYRIM NOT OB the atributes were all mostly just doing something else they could do or already were doing directly... so they merged it all.


Why? Because perks are funner then atribuites acrobatics or athletics. Grinding those skills was never fun... but picking some perks to be more acrobatic or speedy.. that IS fun. And its 1000000000000x easier to do then to code up an acrobatics or athletics skill that actualy is fun for most people.

Most people..... accessiblity.... less grind.... DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not about making things dumber or simplier... its about making it more entertaining.

You never convince those that find spreadsheets entertaining.

Grinding is irrelevant and fun is irrelevant. Running and jumping are things we have done all the time, and will continue to do all the time, whether we have skills for them or not, and whether we have any fun doing them or not. Since running and jumping are activities we will be performing regularly, it would be a shame to have no payoff.

Indeed.
On Morrowind and Oblivion when I was just lazily exploring I always had in the back of my mind that I was at least training acrobatics and athletics, even if I didnt do anything else.
On other games where you have to run around alot Im used to thinking: I wish this was a TES game, so this useless running around back to the beginning of the level would at least train my acrobatics and athletics.

Ill be quite upset if there is only one speed and jumping height the entire game.
But I dont think that will happen, because, well, it would be boring.
I really hope I can affect those with both spells and perks.

How is that less grind, so instead of training 1 skill to jump higher I have to grind something like 10 unrelated skills?

I have to agree with what Merari said about exploring with the passive skills raising in the background made looking for nirnroot or just exploring different areas of the map feel like less of a waste of time if you didn't really find anything.

Threads like these make me more excited about prototype2 coming out than skyrim. seriously outgrowing these old RPG archtypes of typical steroid hulking warrior or emancipated archtypical weakling mage that couldn't weild a butterknife competently. Would be 10 times worse if I had to choose a specific race to be able to even jump competently talk about a game ruining decision in the first hour.

I picked "Other", since it was the only option for "I have no opinion / don't really care".

I never purposely leveled my Athletics & Acrobatics in MW or Oblivion to go faster / higher. I only ever leveled them because skills contributed to stat bonuses when you leveled.

(And they leveled so slowly, that I honestly never "leveled" the skills - I just had to keep track of the rare occasions when I got a point in one, so I'd know what bonus I'd have on leveling....)

Its less grind for most people because whatever they would already be doing will get them there sooner or later.

Having high athletics and acrobatics certainly matters in Oblivion IMO. The problem with these two skills is rather that they're not improved in a controlled manner. They're used constantly by pretty much every character type (especially athletics), unless you fast travel or ride everywhere, and so is not really defining for ANY character type. Morrowind had the same problem. I definitely hope there will be room to improve jumping/fall damage to be able to make acrobatic characters though, and I guess athletics is worked into stamina?

Bethesda: Removing gameplay elements in favor of shiny graphics since 06.

Disclaimer: Warning this product may be over hyped and over simplified. Recommended ages 6-14.

I really do hope they have perks or something. I really like playing as a thief, ninja, assassin..THIEFNINJASSASSIN! You get the point. If all races and characters run and jump at the same speed how will you outrun guards? =( I don't see why Bethesda would do such a [censored]-up as to set everybody to one running speed and one jump height. Especially considering how much they're boasting about how much more diversity there will be between characters than in Oblivion...

Edit: I didn't say f-up like many of you will think when you read the censor
I said cuck-up =D

Obviously, they should never EVER remove anything!

If they do, it's instantly simplifying. They should just add, don't remove ANYTHING! More is better

:violin:

Oh sorry, I didn't realise that the game was actually becoming LESS mainstream and simplified by removing all these things. My bad.