Well, I guess that'd be a way of giving some fans like you what they want but you won't find me using it...

We've already heard of a Dragon Shout that teleports you. I'd be fine with just that, but I want to be able to go from rooftop to rooftop somehow. That's the kind of character I want to play as. An agile assassin who uses some magic. If I can only jump as high as everyone else (and it's pathetically low like Fallout 3), then how am I, or anyone else who wants to play a similar character, supposed to feel agile at all? Maybe they'll add ladders this time around. :whistling:

running faster and jumping higher would fit perfectly in a thief or stamina related perk tree.
I think there will be perks for this, as I cant imagine theyd go the boring way and have us have the same speed and jumping height the entire game.

Todd did indicate that the attributes that were eliminated are included in other ways- as in sprinting, perks, and only they know what else. It's fine with me. I like the idea that it's much more streamlined and simplified. Much less micromanaging and more game play is the goal. It leaves more time for me to examine the intricate details of that "new" common copper ring I just "found"... ;^)

He made it very clear that you can look at a flower's details alongside a riverbed and then go all the way up to the top of a mountain seen in the distance. If that's possible, then you must have some way to achieve that goal. I assume and hope that there won't be a nice little path leading right up to the top of every mountain in the game.

edit:
quoting Sorrow, "Maybe they'll add ladders this time around."

That's funny because Todd also said in past interviews that they have a terrible time getting ladder climbing to work in their games which is why they've never done it.

Peace, +Petrose

LOL at people trying to implement Earth reality with Nirn. This is a place with cat people, elves and magic, this is not Earth. "Realistic" attributes for Earth Humans are different for Nirn residents. Its in the lore, the games and the canon. If it seems "ridiculous" to you then you dont know the lore or perhaps haven't even played an ES game.

I've already given you an explanation for my statement. No need to take it over here on another thread.

Yeah, and its fallacious. This is Nirn, not Newark. this is a FANTASY game, get over it. Want Earth realism, go play a shooter set on Earth.

Good arguement. :rolleyes:

I chose other; I would rather keep the athletics and acrobatics skills. I prefer having them as skills.

I just explained it to you simple like, do you still not understand it? Are you new to ES, or high fantasy in general? I could break it down even more.


...Alright, I will:

Take the Khajiit for example. The epitome of animalistic agility and acrobatics. the khajiit has always been naturally adept at jumping, climbing, dodging etc. It is not a human, it is not restricted athletically by human, or even Earthly human limitations. the Khajiit are so cat like they even have barbed pencses. They are cats, they can jump.

I could go through everything like this, then get into Mundus metaphysics and such, but you should get the idea.

acrobatics also gave you the dodge moves, wich was an awesome step forwards in Oblivion, I loved the dodge rolls....

Wow really? How can you play it off like we're talking about something totally different? Don't lecture me on things you know I know just to make yourself sound intelligent. Like I said, get over yourself.

I'm surprised that nearly a quarter of the people who voted don't mind having a set jump height. I guess if you play as a Mage or a Warrior it's not that big of a deal so it's not that surprising I suppose. I think it'll be really awesome if that teleporting Dragon Shout actually lets you go on rooftops. Then jumping won't be much of an issue at all.

Perhaps they could do it by race, armor weight, inventory weight, perks, or any combination of these. Like a Khajiit wearing no armor with nothing in his inventory will jump a lot higher than a Nord in heavy armor who's nearly encumbered and so on. It was pretty ridiculous how you could sneak around and jump 20 feet wearing heavy armor and a huge claymore in Oblivion.

Arguing about realism is meaningless, there are and will be much more unrealistic things you can do anyway...

As I've said, they've got removed mainly due to gameplay reasons. Athletics and Acrobatics raised way too fast, it was always one of the first skills I max out in nearly every game and every character. In the new system they would be game breaking, as you could level up just by running around in circles, which sounds quite ridiculous.

It has been confirmed that the effects will remain as perks, but in under what skills? Sneak, light-armor, one-handed, alteration or even a general one? I think this is the least of our problems, the important thing is that they're in.

I really am fine with having a set speed and jump height, lets face it Oblivion got silly. My toons ended up so fast I felt like Berthold from The Tales of Baron Munchausen (Eric Idle Rawks!). It was necessary in Morrowind because there were no horses, so it felt good to be able to run really fast places because you for the most part had no choice. In Oblivion you had plenty of choices and it was pointless to have such a fast character. Hell I only ever got my toons into their 30's before I stopped trying to advance them because they simply maxed out there for me. Morrowind, I had a lvl 87, a few 50's etc.

Perks that give you temporary boosts of speed or higher jumps, or perhaps bound items that do so? But I wouldn't mind seeing the old system change to the new to enforce some sort of believability, it would make the game much more immersive imo.

If a Khajiit can run faster than a Breton, but a Khajiit in plate armour runs slower than an unarmoured Breton, then I am happy.

I will miss the atribute system, it might have 'tricked' us into believing the leveling system was more complex while it wasn't but I liked being tricked like that.
Same with the 'optional' skill in Dragon Age: Origins to be persuasive. You know everyone took that skill and you weren't special but you still felt that you unlocked special dialogue options.
I like that they've now got the perks and the health, stamina and magicka increases to replace the atributes. They will add a secundary form of leveling beyond the skills which would have been rather simply without it. So in short: I'm acceptive about the lack of atributes.

But I really really really don't like that lack of athletics and acrobathics. The sense of becomming faster when walking more and being able to jump higher when you practice it will be missed greatly. I know the system was broken but they should have changed it instead of removing it. For example the walking speed remains the same but by walking a lot you will eventually ''train'' (this is key) to sprint longer and faster. At the very least they should have perks for that but the sense of training yourself by doing it is important to me.

I like knowing that I'm training something even when I'm just walking around, it makes doing anything even fetch quests seem useful. Without it I migth also be more inclinded to fast travel and I dont want that... So if they let us ''train'' something while walking then it is fine with me. If not then I can say that this will be an issue for me for all the hundreds of hours that I hope to spend in Skyrim..

This thread again? Hope it doesn't end like the last one. The skills were pretty useless to me. There will be perks to replace them anyway.

You make a good point about the horses. Without atheltics you don't feel like you're wasting valuable mileage by taking a horse ride. If horses are faster then on foot and control well enough then it would be a nice replacement. But I still like ''training'' when walking so how about that you can train your horse? Buying a good horse would give you great speed right away, but that cheaper horses can be trained when used a lot? THey don't need to have a leveling system, they could simply become faster as you use them.

I thought that while very funny it was also ridiculous in oblivion with a high enough acrobatics you can jump in the air turn around and run back in the direction you set off from. Not that big of a deal to have them removed unless they purpously put some spears on a ledge which is JUST a tiny bit too high for me to jump onto.

I'm disappointed about no acrobatics skill and speed attribute, I used to favor them on all my characters. I hope we get related perks.

MAN if there is no perm way to increase speed/jumping that will svck so bad >.<

No it won't.

I'm fine with the sprinting ability if it drains stamina, then there will be a big bonus to pick stamina instead of health or magicka when leveling up.

I think that's a huge question - what will more stamina give you? I mean, in Oblivion, fatigue was nothing compared to magicka and health. You couldn't even increase it with a specific attribute, it was just something secondary that came with Strength, Agility, Willpower and Endurance.

If sprinting drains stamina, then the assassin/thief/sniper that has picked stamina every level-up could run faster/longer than any warrior or mage.

Yes it will.
It will be a ) Boring.
And b ) It will allow for lazy and awful level design. Where you can see your goal right there but you cant get to it cause a table/rock is in the way. You have to circumnavigate a long windy path just because you cant jump high enough.
Thats platform game mentality.
And I know people dont like that kind of lazyness, because its exactly how Oblivion gates were treated.