nono Bethesda gave them the idea i am sure just ask on the forums these guys know everything , ohhh Bethesda :bowdown:

If i remember well Bethesda gave to Ernest Gary Gygax some pencil , some dices and paper and got him in to books and all that RPG stuff , Bethesda even created TCG :nod:

Just my opinion

No, that's not the way it's going to work. It's been mentioned that the perk system is based somewhat on the way they worked in Fallout. There, once you met the requirements of the perk, it was always available to you afterwards even if you didn't take it immediately when it first came up.



Not only that but there will be tiered perks, so that you can't take the second one without already having the first.



But you'll still have all the perks from the other trees that you can take. If you're a caster type, you don't want to focus only on Destruction, you'll want to spread your abilities around. So if by chance there is no Destruction perk available, you can still take a Restoration perk that you passed over earlier. Perk selection will not be a one time only thing, that would be a very poor design indeed. Once you meet the requirements, you'll always be able to choose it later. And with that many perks available, it will be virtually impossible not to find something that is useful to your character.

Mass Effect uses XP leveling. Not the TES "use it and gain" leveling. Entirely different take on the system. Aside from being a linear shooter and not an open-world fantasy....

And by definition Mass Effect is an RPG. You play the role of a customized Commander Shepard. Simple. It's very different from many others, but it is still an RPG in the main sense of the term.

OT: As for attributes....aside from Mass Effect (being class and skill based) I can't really think of any at the moment...

Seems to me like the only requirements that should be needed for getting a perk are having a high enough skill level and having the lower tier perks.

When you level up, you can boost your Magicka, Health or Fatigue, and your Health bar grows a little bit automatically.

Mass effect is not an RPG. Its a linear shooter with RPG elements.

The plus side to me seems that levelling could be more organic now.

What does crawling around in some dungeon that's not even quest related have to do with role playing?

Short answer?
Everything.

The thing about an RPG is that it has these fully optional things that are in no way needed to complete the main quest.
My character goes exploring into dungeons mainly to statisfy his homocidal tendencies and to loot things from their now dead owners to fund his lifestyle.
His sweetheart wishes hed just join the guards, its safer. His neighbours gossip about it. Cause Im roleplaying.

Ahh yes about good old times, does some one still remember Lands of Lore game series it has similar to TES skill progression but also special abilities thats similar to perks, but it was really simple in comparison with Ultima for example, the same goes to Dark Messiah and Arx Fatalis, I really don't want see similar downgrades of RPG mechanic in TES.

Short answer?
Everything.

The thing about an RPG is that it has these fully optional things that are in no way needed to complete the main quest.
My character goes exploring into dungeons mainly to statisfy his homocidal tendencies and to loot things from their now dead owners to fund his lifestyle.
His sweetheart wishes hed just join the guards, its safer. His neighbours gossip about it. Cause Im roleplaying.

And that's no doubt how it will work. I really can't see them doing it any other way. Once you meet the requirements you unlock the perk, and you'll be able to select it at any point for the rest of the game after that. That's exactly how it worked in Fallout 3 and it's been mentioned that Skyrim's system was patterned off of that game. With the exception that the perks will be skill based rather than having a bunch of generic ones like Fallout had.

The thing about an RPG is that it has these fully optional things that are in no way needed to complete the main quest.
My character goes exploring into dungeons mainly to statisfy his homocidal tendencies and to loot things from their now dead owners to fund his lifestyle.
His sweetheart wishes hed just join the guards, its safer. His neighbours gossip about it. Cause Im roleplaying.

Fun fact:
Ultima 7, a game wildly considered as the best open world RPG there is, had extremely simplistic RPG elements in them. 3 attributes, 2 skills, no classes.


but, mass effect has quite a few sidequests and explorable territories with in it, even though you said it's not an RPG...
... and that it's linear...

Fun fact:
Ultima 7, a game wildly considered as the best open world RPG there is, had extremely simplistic RPG elements in them. 3 attributes, 2 skills, no classes.


but, mass effect has quite a few sidequests and explorable territories with in it, even though you said it's not an RPG...
... and it's linear...

I was just saying that there was a topic a while back where people were saying that you would only get to choose perks from skills that you raised between levels.

But how do you roleplay in Mass effect?

Dont get me wrong, I liked the game. I enjoyed both the storyline and the shooty parts.
But you play John Shepard. The role you play is set for you from a to z, its not like a TES game where you can be a peaceful healer. There is no way to play that game peacefully.
You get taken on an enjoyable rollercoaster ride and you get to choose things like the colour of the rollercoaster or what flavour icecream you have afterwards, but it remains a rollercoaster.

In games like Oblivion I can make my own role.
In games like mass effect the role is pre-set.

But how do you roleplay in Mass effect?

Dont get me wrong, I liked the game. I enjoyed both the storyline and the shooty parts.
But you play John Shepard.

Really, only game that lets you play your own role is the TES games, most other RPGs gives you some sort of background and sometimes even a name, so your character gets a presence in the game.

There used to be more games like TES, oh and they were fantastic.
Menzoberranzan, eye of the beholder are two that immediately come to mind.
Sadly, I have noticed a trend over the past decade or so that companies now like to slap an 'rpg' sticker on what is not like these games at all.
And for some reason this forced change of definition has now come full circle where gamers themselves are arguing that a game like mass effect is an RPG.

To my definition, it is not. Its an action/ adventure.
But I suppose that in the end RPG is just what I point at when I use the term, same as for everyone else.

I sure miss those RPG's as they used to be though.

There used to be more games like TES, oh and they were fantastic.
Menzoberranzan, eye of the beholder are two that immediately come to mind.
Sadly, I have noticed a trend over the past decade or so that companies now like to slap an 'rpg' sticker on what is not like these games at all.
And for some reason this forced change of definition has now come full circle where gamers themselves are arguing that a game like mass effect is an RPG.

To my definition, it is not. Its an action/ adventure.
But I suppose that in the end RPG is just what I point at when I use the term, same as for everyone else.

I sure miss those RPG's as they used to be though.

The Fable games? I can not recall if they used attributes in the traditional sense...

Sorry, but D&D was what started it all. That's one reason why so many people have this fixation over attributes. They've become so accustomed to them in games, since so many of them have simply copied the D&D example in one shape or another, that they can't envision an RPG without them. I'd say it's time to move on and try something new for a change.

Have you played D&D? The D&D attribute system is nothing like TES -- one main distinction is that attributes are static (don't change when you level).

Have you played D&D? The D&D attribute system is nothing like TES -- one main distinction is that attributes are static (don't change when you level). How can you "move on" from something that has never existed in TES. Don't blame attributes on TES poor implementation.

This trend started in the 90s...
There are no real RPGs after the mid 90s...

And all those games I've just mentioned before are just action games...

Seriously, I think you need to think over your definition of RPG...

Nah my definition of an RPG is now foolproof, since I redefined it in my previous post.