Attributes completely removed=Removed encumberance? : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:30 pm

POINT 9

3 Attributes are in NAMED:Health, Magicka and Stamina

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/04/18/20-best-things-about-skyrim/

The 3 attributes don't refer to Stamina, Magic and Health?

EDIT: Whoa, nice ninja edit.

» Mon May 02, 2011 10:47 pm

Yeah. My fault :whistling:

At the moment I'm sceptic about this new system

but we will know how well it will fits in the game when we will play it.

» Mon May 02, 2011 10:46 pm

I can see encumbrance working in two ways:

1) The weight of the items you carry slowly drain Stamina, or make the stamina "cost" for strenuous actions to increase. A fighter with 100lbs of gear expends 20 stamina to swing axe, a fighter with 20lbs of gear expends 5 to swing axe. (Made up numbers to illustrate idea).

2) The weight of the items reduce the 'cap' on stamina. A fighter carrying 100lbs operates with an adjusted stamina cut by 50%, a fighter carrying 20lbs has stamina cut by 10%. So when you rest or let stamina regenerate, it won't reach the theoretical potential as if a character were carrying 0lbs.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:12 am

Where have they confirmed that Attributes aren't in the game? Link please?

Normally I'd just say the IGN article and go find it your self, but I have it open in another tab so. http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1162158p1.html

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:28 am

I tried to explain that in another thread:

What you forget is that every attribute governed several skills. Even the best marksman will now sneak like a drunken cow.
Attributes made sense because they added another layer of specilization: When you get stronger, you get better in all things that require strength; when you improve your agility, your get better in all things that require nimbleness; when you get more intelligent, your get better in all things that require intelligence. This is gone now, without any replacement.

While true, it doesn't add enough for me to care much about their removal. You want to be better at things improve the skill, and besides some perks may be more general. Like a one handed weapon perk might increase melee damage in general, or a magic skill perk might might reduce the amgicka cost of all spells etc.

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:18 am

I can see encumbrance working in two ways:

1) The weight of the items you carry slowly drain Stamina, or make the stamina "cost" for strenuous actions to increase. A fighter with 100lbs of gear expends 20 stamina to swing axe, a fighter with 20lbs of gear expends 5 to swing axe. (Made up numbers to illustrate idea).

2) The weight of the items reduce the 'cap' on stamina. A fighter carrying 100lbs operates with an adjusted stamina cut by 50%, a fighter carrying 20lbs has stamina cut by 10%. So when you rest or let stamina regenerate, it won't reach the theoretical potential as if a character were carrying 0lbs.

Or, they can just have higher stamina increase your carrying capacity in addition to determining the limitations on what else it does and call it a day.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:26 am

Except we have no reason to believe so. Everything suggests that all perks will be tied to skills.

I tried to explain that in another thread:

What you forget is that every attribute governed several skills. Even the best marksman will now sneak like a drunken cow.
Attributes made sense because they added another layer of specilization: When you get stronger, you get better in all things that require strength; when you improve your agility, your get better in all things that require nimbleness; when you get more intelligent, your get better in all things that require intelligence. This is gone now, without any replacement.

Kind of how there are now 1 handed weapon skill which covers 1 handed weapons...

» Tue May 03, 2011 8:16 am

Except we have no reason to believe so. Everything suggests that all perks will be tied to skills.

I tried to explain that in another thread:

What you forget is that every attribute governed several skills. Even the best marksman will now sneak like a drunken cow.
Attributes made sense because they added another layer of specilization: When you get stronger, you get better in all things that require strength; when you improve your agility, your get better in all things that require nimbleness; when you get more intelligent, your get better in all things that require intelligence. This is gone now, without any replacement.

Kind of how there are now 1 handed weapon skill which covers 1 handed weapons...

I rather just have one stat covering my blade attack, not 2, I agree with Beth its redundant.

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:30 am

Removing attributes leads to several problems. For example, on the removal of strength:

I have a level 50 character who's really melee-orientated, maxxed skills in armour, block and weapon skill A. However, he never touched weapon skill B.
I have a level 50 character who's really magic-orientated, all magic skills in the 80s or 90s. He's never touched armour, shields or weapons of any kind.

Are you telling me that if each of these characters picks up a weapon from weapon skill B, they will do the same amount of damage with it?

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:34 am

I'm thinking that the different races will have different starting Encumberances.

Bretons, Wood Elves, will have the lowest amount
Imperial, High Elves, Argonians, Dark Elves, Khajitt will have a normal amount
Redguard, Orc, Nord will have a higher starting amount

That's just my opinion and prediction but I'm thinking that different races may start off with a higher or lower amount of Encumberance then normal.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:10 am

Removing attributes leads to several problems. For example, on the removal of strength:

I have a level 50 character who's really melee-orientated, maxxed skills in armour, block and weapon skill A. However, he never touched weapon skill B.
I have a level 50 character who's really magic-orientated, all magic skills in the 80s or 90s. He's never touched armour, shields or weapons of any kind.

Are you telling me that if each of these characters picks up a weapon from weapon skill B, they will do the same amount of damage with it?

No, because they won't have the perks which would allow them to do so. Or at least that's the impression been given.

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Removing attributes leads to several problems. For example, on the removal of strength:

I have a level 50 character who's really melee-orientated, maxxed skills in armour, block and weapon skill A. However, he never touched weapon skill B.
I have a level 50 character who's really magic-orientated, all magic skills in the 80s or 90s. He's never touched armour, shields or weapons of any kind.

Are you telling me that if each of these characters picks up a weapon from weapon skill B, they will do the same amount of damage with it?

No. People keep forgetting to look at the big picture. You still have weapon skills, which improve damage. Then you have perks to get even more indepth abilities with weapons and it is where you get most of your damage in a specific weapon.

So here is how it will go. The guy that has never touched weapon skill B will do crap damage with it and be killed by his enemy and the magic oriented guy that picks up weapon skill b will be splattered on the ground because he is trying to melee and doing almost no damage and then getting smeared with no armor :tongue:

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:16 am

I feel a sense of impending doom.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:13 pm

There′s no reason to do this. I can′t see anyone complaining about this.

And this, brothers, is a SIMPLIFICATION of the game.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:37 am

And this, brothers, is a SIMPLIFICATION of the game.

Thank goodness. I prefer quality over quantity any day.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:54 pm

Removing attributes leads to several problems. For example, on the removal of strength:

I have a level 50 character who's really melee-orientated, maxxed skills in armour, block and weapon skill A. However, he never touched weapon skill B.
I have a level 50 character who's really magic-orientated, all magic skills in the 80s or 90s. He's never touched armour, shields or weapons of any kind.

Are you telling me that if each of these characters picks up a weapon from weapon skill B, they will do the same amount of damage with it?

Yes, that's how it will work.

No. People keep forgetting to look at the big picture. You still have weapon skills, which improve damage. Then you have perks to get even more indepth abilities with weapons and it is where you get most of your damage in a specific weapon.

So here is how it will go. The guy that has never touched weapon skill B will do crap damage with it and be killed by his enemy and the magic oriented guy that picks up weapon skill b will be splattered on the ground because he is trying to melee and doing almost no damage and then getting smeared with no armor :tongue:

Maybe you didn't read properly: BOTH characters never touched weapon skill B. Although the second character never used any melee weapon, he is just as good or bad at using B-weapons than the warrior that is a master with A-weapons. That's a real downside of a system without attributes.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:05 pm

Thank goodness. I prefer quality over quantity any day.

This is like saying checkers is a better game than chess because it's simpler.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:55 pm

Now I'm starting to get worried.

simplicity = streamlined = dumbed-down

» Tue May 03, 2011 9:49 am

Now I'm starting to get worried.

simplicity = streamlined = dumbed-down

and this is what will end the RPG genre as we know it, and bring the age where RPG's are as role playing as call of duty :swear: :banghead:

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:08 pm

and this is what will end the RPG genre as we know it, and bring the age where RPG's are as role playing as call of duty :swear: :banghead:

And there are people that will argue that CoD is a form of RPG, which is really odd.

» Tue May 03, 2011 9:18 am

Simplicity is not dumbing down. The Attributes had to go and I shouldn't be penalized because I picked 3 skills as majors (Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor) that have the same governed attribute. Heck with the perks we'll have more choices not less and it will allow you to get a greater reward for specializing in a more specific type of character like a Battle Mage or a Warrior.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:02 am

Simplicity is not dumbing down. The Attributes had to go and I shouldn't be penalized because I picked 3 skills as majors (Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor) that have the same governed attribute. Heck with the perks we'll have more choices not less and it will allow you to get a greater reward for specializing in a more specific type of character like a Battle Mage or a Warrior.

but why should my warrior be able to run as fast as my rogue.
i dont really care for the oblivions 10 attributes but it did define my character, take out the bad ones and keep the ones that define characters like strength( could affect damage and increase health) and agility ( improves movement speed and ranged weapons), this is a example of Simplifying it without dumbing it down

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:03 am

Simplicity is not dumbing down. The Attributes had to go and I shouldn't be penalized because I picked 3 skills as majors (Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor) that have the same governed attribute. Heck with the perks we'll have more choices not less and it will allow you to get a greater reward for specializing in a more specific type of character like a Battle Mage or a Warrior.

This removes a major chunk of your initial character build . . . so, in this case, simplicity = dumbing down in my book. Plus, removing all the attributes will limit what modders will be able to do, since many game play changing mods use the attributes.

We've lost an entire dimension of our character build.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:27 am

Simplicity is not dumbing down. The Attributes had to go and I shouldn't be penalized because I picked 3 skills as majors (Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor) that have the same governed attribute.

Simplicity doesn't always lead to dumbing down, but it usually does. Your point about governing attributes is good, but has been fixed in IMHO, smarter ways by modders than by what BGS is doing.

The current fad with major game shops is to throw features out rather than improve them, and the success rate for this approach has been abyssmal, again IMO.

I could be wrong. I hope i'm wrong, but BGS is not only removing major features, but reducing the ability for modders to fix flawed design choices, and that worries me.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:55 pm

Oh, no! You don't need complicated mathematical studies to calculate your character progress!

Surely this is the end of RPG-dom everywhere!