So i was just thinking about how i could possibly buffer my mage or warrior character in Skyrim, and it just dawned on me...

With attributes being out of the game, or their functions moved, how will we buffer certain aspects of our characters? In past games (Morrowind especially, not so much Oblivion because of the attribute ceilings) i would use Alchemy to increase my intelligence for mages, Strength, Endurance, and Agility for warriors, and my Speed and Agility for archers or stealth characters.

Now that there are no attributes, do you think the Devs will include fortify skill ingredients? Say I'm a claymore user, and i want to increase my weapon damage... do you think there could be ingredients that would fortify Two-handed weapons? or Fortify Destruction for my damager mage?

Maybe the only fortify ingredients will be for Health, Magicka, and Fatigue. I just think this would be a slightly lame way to help fortify a warrior (aside making him a tank) unless health or fatigue helps increase melee damage. What about trying to increase bow damage? fortify Archery? or fortify Fatigue? Mages can always fortify Magicka, so there won't be much difference there.

I'm just curious to see what everyone else thinks... do you guys think they will include fortify skill alchemy ingredients? Or will it be just health, magicka, and fatigue?

I would think it would work kinda like this:

Fatigue (stamina bar) effects your agility, archery, Blade (might go here)

Magicka effects, well, magic, distruction, restoration ect.

and health effects strength, total health (or blade might go here?)

but i think it was just condenced, they werent removed, just the attibutes were condenced into three main attributes that govern all the skills

Well fortify attributes is more than likey out.

Fortify skill is likey gone as a consequence, it be overpowered without attributes.

Mage casts fortify one-handed, bam just as good as any warrior. Mages with restoration and alchemy would be a one stop shop.

I doubt we'll get Fortify Attribute/Skills although it's still too early.

yeah i get that attributes weren't removed from the game. but Todd said they were reassigned to different places. what if your bow damage wasnt tied to health or fatigue anymore like it was agility, but only to the archery skill... does that mean i cant buffer an archer? same thing goes for melee damage. if its not located in health or fatigue, but rather my one-hand and two-hand skills, how do i buffer my characters damage? i just don't think its practical for all of Skyrim's possible buffers to be boiled down to three categories. its seems too hard to do. I dont think fortify skills is the answer though, either because there would be waaaaaay too many haha. I'm a bit concerned as to how this may play out.

so if we cant fortify things, how exactly do i buffer my character? is it even possible then? cuz thats a huge part of any RPG that potentially being cut out. Those are rhetorical questions, i know you dont know. i'm just trying to get feedback from the other forum-goers

Um, a large part of any RPGs was cut with attributes, so what's new?

I'm not excited about the outlook for fortify spells, looks as though paladins lost a lot of their flavor.

To counter balance that they added the perk system with over 280 perks, you get damage bonuses, zoom ins and everything from that as well as just utilizing the skill to make it stronger.

But as of the alchemy aspect, you would need to fortify Archery if there was any "fortifying"

"Alchemy doesn't matter that much anymore" -Todd Howard


Red Hot Oblivion pepper of Destruction, will bring enough fire into your spells,
Actually thats only one way since before attributes was in large variety for Alchemy
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Alchemy_Effects
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Alchemy_Effects
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Potions
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Items
Maybe there will be potions thats increase skills but also temporally grant perk?

Yes axing of attributes has consequences in form of many bad side effects,
Racial powers thats use attributes
Disease thats also was based on attributes
Reduction of variability for alchemy, enchanting and spells
interesting how devs will solve such problematic side effects of streamlining RPG system? most frequently they remove feature instead of improving
Birthsigns was axed already, what will be next?

Where exactly does he say this? Im starting to get really dissapointed

Its not the same. i had a lot of fun with certain builds in Morrowind and Oblivion by creating a character that has support abilities that fortify his combat abilities in order to make him fight well. the perks do add bonuses to your character, but in my eyes, its not the same as a spell used to make you stronger for a minute. Its a bonus you get for leveling, not something you can call upon whenever you need it, like a spell or potion.

True, but Todd does say they make every game from scratch.. so its not really supposed to feel like morrowind or OB..
before those games we didnt say i wish morrowind will be like arena or daggerfall.. We just kinda expect Morrowind and OB to be good, and they were.
I can expect Skyrim to be good, no matter what is taken in or out, its the balance of good gameplay that matters most, right?

They could have effects that boost certain things even if the attributes are gone. There'll still have to be, for example, a number for damage, so it could be like "skill + weapon damage + bonus from spells or potions". Morrowind had a spell called "fortify attack" that boosted accuracy even though there was no stat called attack that you could raise directly.


That was about how alchemy's place as a stealth or magic skill didn't matter anymore.

People, please I beg of you...Think.... how do you Tell how STRONG a character is or how FAST and NIMBLE, or Likeable and Cunning a character is, based on Status bars H/M/S ?

What kind of "paladins" you talking?
Or you need a Artwork to imagine self as an Paladin?
You have blank character to start, create your paladin from scratch, they don't need special training facilities and you can "naturally evolve" into one.

Exactly, i mean at first i wasnt necessarily against the attribute axing. i thought it wasn't a half bad idea, until i realized how much in the game relies on it (diseases, alchemy, play types, enchanting). Now i'm not sure sure its a great thing. Unless the devs can come up with some kind of buffer system that can be used without attributes. I think diseases can still be done well, its just going to take some ambition and thinking outside the box.

as far as birthsigns go, as long as the races themselves are unique i really dont mind.

and that Todd quote about alchemy not mattering much anymore, i believe that is out of context for this topic. IIRC he was referring to alchemy being placed into the stealth category as opposed to the magic one.

EDIT - potion perks would be cool :thumbsup:

Tough to know how this is all gonna work. I just hope it's a two way street and there's a way for a warrior/ranger for short-term buffs on magic should the need arise.

Actually after i wrote this topic i thought about the Fortify Attack in Morrowind. But do you think they'll add ingredient effects with 'fortify melee damage' or 'fortify bow damage'? I know they could come up with better names lol. If they do something like this where they still give the ability to buffer, i'll be happy. I'm just afraid it will be too shallow to be useful.

hahaha i agree 100%
i dont want Skyrim to feel like a previous TES game, as it would ruin a lot of the wonder of a new game. But in every RPG i can think of there is always a way to buffer your character for battle. This isnt a feature distinctly from Morrowind or Oblivion. Its a universal RPG feature i think should be included. I'm sure BGS feels the same way... i'm just worried about how it will happen.

you probably just have fortify damage instead of strength and so on, I assume fortify skills are still in.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1164509-edited-transcript-of-the-gi-podcast/


Thats not the same things,

But I like it since thats mean damage variable from Strength still hidden in game then, with some backward equation I can extract Strength attribute out of it and make mod

Well Todd can say it not in traditional sense, you know. :teehee:

attributes weren't cut though, they were just put under the hood in a sense. but because they are under the hood i dont know how they're going to incorporate buffers. i find it hard to believe BGS will completely axe buffers for characters. so i'm just trying to figure out how they will do it.

12:55 Are you going to be able to craft spells, potions, and other items?

"We do have crafting within each discipline now. We do have smithing, enchanting is back as a skill, and then alchemy we're sort of treating as - it doesn't matter that much anymore (stealth/magic/combat categories) - but it's sort of in our stealth category now. We have a blended skill list, so alchemy is sort of the most magical of the stealth skills. And then we have lots of other things that are NOT skill based that you can craft, like cooking and things like that.

There is a lot of that, and more emphasis on it this time around."

you made it sound worse than it was -.-

I don't see how you could justify a Fortify Archery potion. An Increased Ranged Accuracy effect maybe, with a poison to add more damage. Frankly, I hope they greatly simply the whole Alchemy thing. It was way too convoluted in Oblivion, with all sorts of useless combinations of ingredients. They should reduce it to just a few effects and bring it down to a more manageable level.

Anyone else think carrying capacity/encumbrance will be affected by the health stat?