Fallout New Vegas:

Publisher: Bethesda Softworks
Developer: Obsidian Entertainment
Release Date: 10/19/2010
Platforms: PC, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360

But they DID play a part in it

my take on what the system works like:

attributes like strength, athletics and etc are now merged with the 3 core attributes and 18 skills, what i mean is, attributes have gone from being directly manipulated by the player to being indirectly manipulated.

examples:
-your character becoming stronger by increasing martial skills (one handed, two handed and hand to hand) mimicking the "strength" attribute
-your character being able to sprint or hold his breath for a longer period of time by increasing the core attribute of stamina mimicking the "athletics" attribute.
-your character becoming more persuasive by increasing the speechcraft skill mimicking the "personality" attribute.

They didn't play any part in it. Bethesda game studios and Bethesda Softworks are two different entities. Bethesda Softworks is just the company that publishes the games of the Zenimax companies. They don't develop games within Bethesda Softworks, it just a name to be published under.

Not quite, the 280+ perks include perk levels. You won't be able to get all perks for all skills in a single playthrough.

pub·lish (pblsh)
v. pub·lished, pub·lish·ing, pub·lish·es
v.tr.
1. To prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.
2. To bring to the public attention; announce. See Synonyms at announce.

Bethesda Softworks:
Bethesda Softworks, LLC, a ZeniMax Media Company, is an American developer and publisher of video games. The company was originally based in Bethesda, Maryland and eventually moved to their current location in Rockville, Maryland. Consisting of a broad portfolio of games in role-playing, racing, simulation, and sports, Bethesda Softworks' major franchises are distributed worldwide.
In 2004, the Fallout franchise was acquired by from Interplay Productions and the development of Fallout 3 was handed over to Bethesda Game Studios. Fallout 3 was released on October 28, 2008. Five Downloadable Content Packs for Fallout 3 were released in the year following its release—Operation: Anchorage, The Pitt, Broken Steel, Point Lookout, and Mothership Zeta.

BOOM ninja'd
:toughninja:

Even more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks

Yes, they created DVD covers, burned the cds and sold the game to computer stores. -.-

Bethesda published and helped at the engine of New Vegas.

But the bulk of the game was made by Obsidian.

Wait, so what? Yeah, we know they did FO3, but they only provided the engine for FNV and published it. Obsidian did all the dev work.

Having skill level requirements as well as only being able to pick a perk if you've increased that skill in between levels compounds the problem. Let's say we're talking about one of the skills that has only 12 perks (they said there will be 12-20 perks per skill, depending on the skill). If that skill has say (basing this on the destruction skill tree from the screenshot) one level 0 perk, four level 25 perks, three level 50 perks, three level 75 perks, and 1 level 100 perk, then it would be entirely possible that you could gain at least one level from raising a skill from 78 to 99, with no options for perks on level up. Yes the problem is bigger if you only use one skill between a level up, but this happened a lot to me with especially alchemy in Morrowind and Oblivion. They could alleviate the problem a bit by having a perk cap that's not dependent on level (like you can keep getting perks if you don't yet have 50 by level 50), but I really don't see them implementing a system that has the potential of no perk options at certain level ups. But anyway here's a quote from gameinformer:



Sounds more like we will be able to choose a perk from any of the 18 skills, not just the ones we increased in between levels. Also there's a bit of a problem with the starter dungeon idea, which is that I doubt in the starter dungeon you will have access to a spell from each school, a forge for smithing, enough soul gems (and the soul trap spell or filled soul gems) to level enchanting, enough people to talk to to raise speechcraft, etc. I mean maybe they would limit the first perk to being one from the limited number of skills that you can use in the starter dungeon, but it makes more sense to me to just let you choose a perk from any of the 18 skills.


Well, combined with what I said above, there's one more really big problem. It is very likely that all perks will have skill level requirements. I bet every skill will have at least one mastery (level 100) perk. If you increase one-handed weapons from 99 to 100, but for some reason (or accidentally) choose a perk for a different skill, you've completely lost the ability to get the mastery one-handed weapon perk, even though you are a master at one-handed weapons. Doesn't make sense.

Hmmm, no.

If you look at the Employees at both companies... wait! theyre the same essentially.
Theyre both ran by the same people.

Umm no, that's incorrect, you didn't "BOOM ninja" me. Bethesda Game Studios used to be Bethesda Softworks a long time ago. They however, split off into Bethesda Game Studios and Bethesda Softworks became the game publishing company for Zenimax. Publishing the game does not mean they worked on it at all, there is a difference between publishing and developing. Obsidian made NV, Bethesda game studios didn't and Bethesda Softworks doesn't have a game development team as I might have mentioned, they are now a game publishing company only.

Bethesda will also "publish" Rage and Doom 4, but id will be "producing" those games.

This is getting silly now, do some people actually realise what effects the Oblivion attributes had on the game and how this is easily incorporated into the 3 Core Attributes of Skyrim.

If not, carry on reading and this should give you some idea as to why we are bored of the No Attributes?????? WTH threads that are spawning daily.

Lets start with the original attributes and what they effect

Agility

i) Governs Marksman, Sneak & Lockpick (This just means it has a small effect on the effectivness of using the skills the higher it is)
ii) It also effects the chance to avoid being staggered by enemy blows, and adds to the damage that bows do
iii) Used in the Calculation for the total fatigue number (Agility + Endurance + Strength + Willpower

Getting rid of Agility just means that:

i) The actual level of the skill will directly govern the effectiveness of the skill
ii) both of these can be replaced with Perks in the Block and Marksman skills
iii) The Stamina core attribute will directly represent fatigue and adding points into this at level up will increase it.

now the 'i)' sections are exactly the same for all attributes, meaning that the actual level of the skills are how effective they are, there are no longer invisible multipliers adding to this.

I have detailed the sections of each of the other 7 attributes below and how these can be replaced

Endurance

ii) effects base health and the health increase at each level up.
iii) See 'Agility iii)'

If removed:

ii) Can now add points directly into health
iii) See 'Agility iii)'

Intelligence

ii) effects Base Magika pool

if removed:

ii) Add points directly into Magicka

Luck

ii) effects everything, slightly

If removed:

ii) Skill levels will directly effect the skills with no invisible multiplier added by luck

Personality

ii) Higher disposition for NPCs
iii) Obtain better prices from merchants through haggling
iv) Avoid combat more often as fewer aggressive beings will attack you.

If removed:

ii) Disposition will not be the same as Oblivion, so no info on how the NPC disposition towards players will be increased/decreased
iii) The Mercantile skill will handle this itself
iv) It has already been said that the majority of wildlife will be less 'Wild' unless you provoke them.

Phew, got bored and cant be bothered to finish but you all get the picture so stop moaning about there being no Attributes.

So basically, this thread ended on the first reply. About three dozen threads ago.

I can see the problem, but i dont think if you chose another skill over the mastery skill that that skill will become "locked"
the next level up you can still get the master skill, because you have already met the prerequisets for that skill.

They are in DnD the original roleplaying game :celebration:

@Karniest, don't even bother. If you look back a few pages you'll see I made a very similar post (look for lots of red, a little purple, and tiny bit of blue), but people still refuse to believe these things can be handled without attributes.



But I thought you were saying that you can only get perks from a skill that you have increased to contribute to your last level up?

Yes, and Bioware is employing the PvP designer from Mythic in their making of The Old Republic. Doesn't mean that TOR is made by Mythic or even that they have anything to do with it whatsoever. People are people, they get hired. It's like you're just picking arguments here for the sake of arguing. Stop it, it just makes you look dumb.

Obsidian is more or less a baby brother of all the major gaming companies out there. When using an engine from another developer, you're obviously smart to use some of the people as guides to the system.

Even Zenimax has Bethesda's Employees. So does Beth-soft and Beth game studios. All ran by all the same people essentially.
The only exception is FNV and Obsidian.. which, i was wrong. ill give that to you.

First of all, the problem only exists in hypothesis with the certain conditions that you are putting forth, your putting too much alleged restrictions on perks. I've said all I can say about the perks, if your still not convinced that it will work out, then I guess you'll just have to wait until the game comes out to decide whether you like the perk system or not.



I'm guessing that quote is from the website and not the actual article but also, that quote never suggested anything but limits on the choice of perks when you level up.


Mainly it comes down to one question if it as you say and you can choose any perk when you level up, What's the point of breaking them into Skill trees if you can choose any perk you want? Skill trees only furthers the evidence towards only being able to choose perks from skill trees of skills you used to level.

Well, they have BGS :hubbahubba:

Yes. i live and breath to argue. And thank you, i am dumb for having an opinion, and actually replying with some thought and something to say. I've done research on beth soft and beth game studios zenimax ect, my point was that they were all the same people, hence they were all made by the same people (i feel like im just repeating myself, hopefully this time you catch on..)
And im not talking about one designer, im talking about whole teams of people.

i) Actually it doesn't. Not in Oblivion at least and in Morrowind it's a mess : Security is governed by Intelligence but only gets bonuses from Agility.
ii) for first point, it has nothing to do with training in a bow, sneaking or lockpicking anyway so that effect from agility SHOULD come from another source



iii) it's a repeat from point ii. Attributes give no bonus to mercantile skill except luck. The better prices from merchants you see is due to the fact they like you better
iv) it probably never happens I'd say. Acording to UESP, you'd need around 180 personality to get the first mobs to be non hostile and you'd just get the animals it seems Still I didn't knew that and could have some fun breaking Oblivion with that one day.

BGS and Bethesda Softworks are now two separate entities. Zenimax owns both companies but Bethesda Softworks doesn't own BGS, BGS used to be Bethesda Softworks until they split off into a separate company so that Zenimax had a publishing company for the new game studios they were buying up like Id.



But they aren't. Bethesda Softworks and BGS are not the same people. The only thing that relates them is that BGS used to be Bethesda Softworks and that these two companies have the same parent company, that's about it.

Back on topic: Would just like to remind everyone that this game has been in development for what, 5-6 years? I don't think they sat down on day one and said, "Okay, we don't like attributes, toss 'em."

They probably took a look at how they affected gameplay in Oblivion and Morrowind, did what they could to make them better, and then decided that there was a better way to handle them than the current system. I understand having doubts, but you gotta have a little faith, too. "Bethesda don't make no junk."