That is because they are spinning. They are essentially making crap up in what looks to be a lame attempt to cover up gutting the previous attributes system instead of fixing it.

Ok... Well, I don't know what to say about that. I'm skeptical, but I can't prove it. It's totally logical to me that it would work the way they've said, so... I don't know.

They are now.

Good to see I'm not the only one that took it that way, and I still believe it to be that way until proven otherwise.

Best thing to do is either be skeptical or...go with open arms to what Beth is doing, whatever fits you, just don't start throwing knives at anyone who says otherwise to you, I made sure my previous post addressed the OP, Speed, agility, Athletics and Acrobatics have been stated to be NOT in game, so your gonna have FO3 like game where its possible your jump height and running speed aren't different from other characters, that includes Sprinting, if you can sprint other NPC's can as well.

Particularly since stamina doesn't have anything to do with run speed or jump height, but with how long one can keep running and/or jumping. At least in the real world....


You're right - it makes no sense at all to tie it into mercantile. Not to say they wouldn't do it - just that it makes no sense at all. But if they tie that into stamina also, then yes - it would seem that that's just going to inflate the value of stamina even more, and make it even more certain that every player who wants to run faster, jump higher and/or carry more (which is going to be pretty much every player) is going to focus on increasing stamina, and then we're back to artificial approaches to the game meant solely to boost statistics, which is nominally what all this is meant to avoid.

:shrug:

To be honest at this point I am more annoyed that they are lying about removing the attributes system and pretending that health bars are attributes. It makes no sense.

For you I'd say don't worry. While this will ruin the way many of us played the game or eliminate a primary reason why many thought previous TES were amazing, most will not be impacted at all by their decision. IMO, I have no doubts it will still be a great game. Just not what I was hoping for in the realm of character development. There is still the rest of the game to play.

:confused:

Maybe they should have called it athletics. That incorperates stamina.



I just assumed they'd stick carrying capacity under health. I see it this way.... health is basically strength, stamina is athletics, and magicka is intelligence.... or something like that. I Literally took it as they've said, those are attributes and the 8 were folded into those 3.

I don't know though... that's just how I took the information from the articles so far. :shrug:




Fair enough....

Either way, there's obviously a lot of confusion. Everyone is taking this information differently. Also, i'm sure you're right, it won't effect me much at no matter which way they took it. :shrug:

You really don't understand how perks work do you? For instance, in Fallout 3 there was a perk called Strong Back that allowed you carry 50 lbs more than you could before. They'll probably also have a perk that increases your overall speed as well, with a possibility of several ranks you can get. There's absolutely no reason why these things have to be directly tied to your skills. Nor do they have to be tied to your main attributes either. You develop your skills, those affect your attributes, and when you reach a certain level, you unlock a perk that involves that particular attribute. Or just having your skills reach a certain level allows you to pick up a perk. That's how it worked for many perks in Fallout 3. There were also many perks that became available just for reaching a certain overall level, with no other requirements. I personally like the idea overall, it will allow for alot more flexibility and customization of your character. It will also open alot of doors for the modding community as they should be able to come up with a ton of perks that won't exist in the default game.

Fret not since there is an air about Beth leaning more towards consoles than anything and the fact that instead of exploiting the capabilities of PC's they would go against the monsters that are Sony and Microsoft to see if PC mods can get into Consoles. its only a matter of time when some intuitive modders can derive an appropriate system regardless whether the system we've been told about is Good or Bad, Mods Optional, to complain about something optional independant of the games developement is to be a fool

Sprinting costs stamina. You can add points to your stamina whenever you level up. If you want to run longer, bonus your stamina.

As long as the stamina regen rate increases as you increase your stamina (e.g. if you regain a fixed percentage of max stamina per second), then boosting your stamina effectively increases your speed. There you go.

Yeah. I just hope there will be mods for people who want a different system.


Frankly, I never understood why a healthbar makes any sense except for gameplay reasons. Why should a strong person suffer less damag from a bullet to the chest than a weak one?


Yes I do, but it seems you are confusing Skyrim with Fallout 3. In Skyrim, all perks are bound to skills. You can't get the related perks unless you level that skill, sorry.

That certainly doesn't follow. If you want to sprint faster, you pick up a perk that allows you to do so. Just because they didn't have one in Fallout doesn't mean they won't in Skyrim. Speed just wasn't important in that game, with everyone using ranged weapons. It's not easy outrunning a bullet after all.

We need to know the skill list and that should answer some questions.

Well, it does help very minimally, unless of course vital organs are hit, but I digress. For the most part though, you're right. However, it's just the nature of a video game, and an RPG one at that, right?

The question remains - where is that perk supposed to go? There are only 5 unconfirmed skills (3 in combat, 2 in stealth), and it certainly won't fit into any of the ones we know.


Yeah, it's convenient for games. And everybody is used to it, so why change, I get that.
However, I would have liked a system where you don't "lose health", but gain wounds. After a certain amount of injuries, you'd die. Armor ratings and some perks/attributes could help to turn an otherwise critical wound into a minor injury, and so on ... but I digress.

Health doesn't really make sense for carry weight imo. If anything it will probably be dependent on stamina, which makes a lot more sense. Someone with a lot of stamina would be able to carry a heavy load over long distances.

But I can see a few perks that could have an effect too:
- Mercantile - pack rat - increases the amount you can carry, can choose this perk multiple times to increase further. Directly affects your mercantile ability by being able to carry more. (or this could be in the mercantile branch of the speechcraft skill tree if they are combined, makes less sense but still)
- Heavy Armor - multi level perk that reduces the weight of the heavy armor that you have equipped. Probably one for light armor too since this was also in oblivion.
- Alteration - perk that increases the effectiveness of the feather spell

Of course none of these completely replace the strength system. My guess is your max carry weight will be a function of your max stamina, and there will be a few skill perks like those that have some sort of effect too.

Anyway I always found it annoying that to be an effective thief you had to make yourself very strong or use feather enchantments.

Yeah so? It worked that way for alot of perks in Fallout as well. For instance, you couldn't get Demolition Expert until your Explosives skill had reached 60. I'm not quite sure how they'll go about raising your skills, whether it will be performing an action like in Oblivion or by allocating points like Fallout, but either way it will work. I don't find the overall idea the least bit confusing and think that it will be a vast improvement over the mess that Oblivion called a leveling system.

It doesn't have to go anywhere, just reaching a certain level will unlock it, or it will be available right from the start. I'm pretty sure there's going to be plenty of general perks that won't necessarily have any sort of skill requirement, just like there was in Fallout. Then there will be more specialized perks based on your skills, again like Fallout. You'll just have to decide whether you'd rather have one or another.

Sounds great and realistic, something I tend to be a fan of, but you'd die real fast. They just need to find that sweet spot between realism and fun. However, I'm sure it will be more like the usual, and I'm fine with it personally. I have no doubt I'm going to like this game a lot, especially since it feels like they're trying to take a more heightened realism approach for the most part.

Nah, it doesn't work like in fallout. They've said that every skill has a perk tree (see the constellations in the http://cdnstatic.gamesas.com/akqacms/files/tes/screenshots/SkillsMenu_wLegal.jpg), and that you get one per level from any one tree, and that perks would have some skill requirements as well. They haven't said anything about perks that are not in any skill's perk tree.

General perks will take care of stuff that skill perks don't.

But have they mentioned that there will be any general perks?

Probably an E3 reveal.

Hmm, yeah I guess it's possible. But don't get too disappointed if there aren't, everyone should realize that there are ways to handle carry weight even if there are no general perks.