The attributes are still in they're just called Perks.

i.e. instead of clicking plus one to strength you click on the button of an attribute that does exactly the same thing. If you want to be a fighter just keep taking melee related perks related to your melee style of choice and for a mage you take magic related perks.

I don't see why people have a problem with it, all they have done is taken the numbers out of it and replaced it with descriptive perks.

Everyone has a right to agree or disagree with the new way.I'm sorry,but in my opinion "attributes" as they were have been weighed,measured and found wanting. They were just numbers,that didn't tie into skills as they should have done.It is your skills that matter,NOT attributes.If you sit back and think about,attributes are seen to be very weak.It was a slightly different story in morrowind because of die rolling,which did matter more.We control our character now,with our own skill.

Bethesda has spent around five years making this game,and has even had a team working on dragons for two years.What does that show?....i'll tell you. It shows that they have put alot of thought into the game,whether it's attributes.dragons,animations,crafts etc.All these decisions would not have been taken lightly. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff,or trim the herd. Todd himself has stated,"bethesda think big",some things we'll like others we may not....But how are they and we going to know this without trying.It's how we/they progress.If they didn't change anything,most of us would be up in arms about it.

The new way from what we know of it so far,seems to focus on we are what we play,we are what we do.That's how it should be. The new way lets us do that without having a ball and chain tied to us. Think about it 280 perks to pick from,50 through each playthrough....That's alot. 50 perks ( that you'll have to pick wisely ) plus 3 main attributes,and 18 meaningful skills,is far better than 21 skills and 8 attributes.To which those attributes ( to be fair ) did next to nothing in some cases,or effect skills.

1: Strength: It added to our carring capacity,fatigue,and added 1 -3 points of damage on melee weapons.
We will still have encumberance,we now have a stamina bar/attribute,and i'm sorry,if i can have a perk that let's my axe cause bleeding over time,that's much.much better than 2 points of damage added to my axe or sword.....Perks win.

2: Intelligence: Added to overall magicka ( that's it ) we still have that,with the magicka attribute.

3: Added to magicka regen,and fatigue. We will have a way to regen magicka i believe,that could be tied to the magicka attribute,or ranks etc. Fatigue takes care of itself.

4: Agility: Affects Ability to manoeuvre and balance,fatigue,and damage with bows.
Our ability to manoeurve,was down to our control/movement speed,not agility,had a small affect in the air.Fatigue covered again. Damage with bows--again i would prefer perks like holding breath,slow time etc,rather than 1-2 points of damage. Also agility did not affect security or sneak in my opinion,so again pretty useless.

5: Speed: Did have an an affect on speed,but that's easily done other ways,we can now walk,jog,and sprint,we'll have other ways of getting faster. And how did speed affect light armour,it didn't,not one little bit,was there for the sake of it.

6: Endurance: Affected health,fatigue and health gain per level. That's covered with the stamina,health attributes in skyrim.How did endurance affect heavy armour,and armourer,again it didn't.

7: Personality: Sorry,but it was useless.You just need good speechcraft,illusion,potions etc. Useless attribute in my opinion.

8: Luck: I believe luck shouldn't be there now. What we decide to do,where to go is our own real life luck,that's affecting the game.It's better than the game deciding when we should be lucky...hope that makes sense.

Overall the attributes weren't that good at all,and are very weak,not to mention all manner of other exploits,that made them weaker. I'm looking forward to the new way.I will look forward to using my skill as i want without being bogged down by meaningless numbers. I won't have to worry about using a skill/weapon just to get a bonus-thus forcing mr to use a skill i don't like. If i tried that with one of my seven majors,i'd level un-evenly. I don't have to worry ,that eventually i'll be 100 in all attributes the same as everyone else.

That's my opinion,and there is more evidence to show how weak attributes were. I'm very much looking forward to the direction skyrim is taking,and when your sat there wrapped up in the game,eventually,you won't give attributes a second thought.

Actually, in a huge, open, sandbox RPG, quality = quantity, to a degree.

Nice flame. Changes nothing though. I stand by my generalizing opinion. Just feels right, you know because it all boils down to this...



...Ah, the crux of it all. YOU want. Stop pretending that what YOU want is the best and/or only way. It's Bethesda's way or the highway.

If I had to choose, I'd pick the new system, too. But that doesn't mean I have to like everything about it.
I think 280 perks sounds more than it actually is. As long as you don't want to be a jack of all trades, you can easily concentrate your points on a few skills, and even within the skills, you don't want to get every perk (a swordman won't want the axe perks, etc). So for pure combat/magic/stealth characters, there won't be that many tough choices once you made up your mind which equipment or school of magic you want to use. And be assured that there also will be perks that are less desirable than others, all balancing aside.




I'm sorry, but how do you know bleeding is better than 2 points of damage? :shrug:




Well, as said so many times already, I don't think there's anyone that wants attributes as they were.
Also, the argument is not that there will no longer be a way to increase your damage or the amount of your magicka - the gripe with the removal of attributes has never been about the effects. It's about their function to portray realism and provide another layer of complexity for character-building. By arguing from effects and redundancy, you could just as well remove magic because there are other ways to deal damage. Complexity and options are not redundancies to those who want attributes to stay.

Whats real about attributes if they don't have an affect?. What's the attributes function if it doesn't have an affect,or tie into the skills you use,it doesn't.It's just that we got used to them,they were made to look more important than they actually were.

*Edit* i don't mean to be selfish in my opinion,and i didn't mind attributes in the other games,but when i've sat back and thought about it,i know why they have done it. We've trusted them so far and both morrowind and oblivion were good,whats to question them now?.
Either way,i know you like attributes,but i hope you still enjoy skyrim regardless of them not being there.Or being there as we once knew them.

#1 I'm just rolling character builds around in my head, I don't know. I just think, in the new system, when I made up my mind which role I want to play, I will most likely get (almost) all the perks I want, which will make characters with the same role almost identical. Maybe 40 perks would be enough? But we will see.

#2 Well we don't know anything about the rate the health is draining, how much it is draining, etc. Good-sounding skills can still be pretty useless.

#3 Well, that's exactly the point: Nobody wants attributes without effects, hence nobody wants the old system.

Well with the new bleeding effect I can finally made a cowardly marauder type of character who specializes in hit and run tactics. Dunno if it's better than the extra 1-2 points of damage in the end but I would definitely in favor of having that possibility now.

edit: mods, its page eleven already

I have a question for the people who says the same effects are in: How do I improve my ability to carry more stuff, run faster, jump higher ect. ect. gradually and not in 3-5 preset steps?

Post limit.