What do you think of the idea that attributes visualize themselves in the player's/NPCs' looks? Kind of how Fable had it.
With this I mean... like:

The more strength/endurance you have, the more strong you will look (bigger muscles, etc). But of course not so strong that it looks weird.

The more intelligence/willpower you have, the more magical you will look (magical runes on your body for instance). Like in this image from Fable 1 http://guides.gamepressure.com/fablethelostchapters/gfx/word/1212929343.jpg, you can see some glowing magical runes on his face. This may be, however, a bit too strong in my opinion. Subtler would be better.

I'm not sure how agility/speed would visualize itself... perhaps with height, or more slim body. Not sure.
I'm also unsure about personality/luck. Perhaps they shouldn't visualize themselves at all.

This theory should be best if it worked on all characters... NPCs and yourself. That way you could see on a person if they were a really advanced mage or warrior. And you would really feel more like a warrior/mage when you had high attributes in it. This could be especially useful in combat. That way you could see on the NPC "Oh crap! He got big muscles... I better run away!", or "Oh... she looks magical (lol)! I'll cast a silence spell on her before she even thinks of casting a spell on me! Muahha!".

Anyway, do you think this is a good idea? Should Skyrim have it?
It would be easiest to implement if a "transititon" stage happened at certain values, like 75,100, but depending on the engine, maybe even dynamical?

Personally, I'm a bit unsure yet (because of the uncertainty of the new engine). But it could definitely work. Warriors should look like real warriors (I mean a skinny character shouldn't look like that if she or he is really really strong), and wizards like real wizards... imo.

It would be kind of cool.
On the other hand it could change your character in ways you don't want it to.
So yeah... it depends on how big the changes would be.

I agree, that's why I noted to keep it a bit subtle. Fable had it too much. But... as I mentioned... a subtle change would be pretty cool. Can give you an advantage in battles if you pay attention to how the enemy NPCs look.

I'm not interested, I'd rather the artists spend time giving us a greater variety than implementing a scaling system and then making sure all of the equipment works with it. A system like this is also pretty much geared to stereotype - it's pretty reasonable that a stronger character have larger muscles but intelligence and wisdom don't necessarily have visual signals like that. While runes are certainly better than giving characters a larger head it would look strange on an intelligent character who doesn't use magic, and that's quite reasonable in the Elder Scrolls.

Strange double post. Read below

Only age, strength, endurance, agility and speed. Intelligence and willpower aren't really magical abilities -- you have intelligence and willpower in real life but you're not magical. I don't see you glowing.

Good point with the last thing you mentioned. Also, I think if this would take too much time, energy, etc, for the developers, then they should definitely focus on much much more important things (unique landscape for instance!)
This is also a highly subjective question. It can be cool if implemented the right way (subtle, for instance). I was expecting a pretty close tie between a yes and a no.

I rather have templates rather than than the reliability of stats to determine the visible look the of the said PC, assuming I want these kind of body templates anyway. That says, muscles bound men and all that junk it so old and I rather not like that style.

I'm quite happy as it was in MW and OB, and I'll be even happier if we can customize our bodies in SR.
But I wouldn't be opposed to this, unless it's too obvious and cartoony like Fable, but I'd rather get the exact body I want rather than manipulate my stats to get a certain look or, more likely, avoid a certain look, such as being absolutely huge, or these 'runes' you talk about being on my body.

I don't see why you would not want this?

The basic concept isn't necessarily flawed, but honestly, if I want my character, or NPCs, to look a certain way, that's what the CS is for. Like in Morrowind, when I wanted to be an Orc who is taller than Altmers and beefier than the other Orcs, I created a new race called True Orsimer (later, Brute Orc) and set its parameters however I wanted.

Granted, it may seem kind of crappy to have to mod everything we want in ourselves, but it'd be even worse if Bethesda had to do it, because as big as their development team apparently is, there's thousands upon thousands of us players. And pretty much all of us have different ideas of what works and what doesn't. Take the really hardcoe role-players for example. They'd probably like it if the gold coins actually had accurate weight to them, whereas pretty much everyone else would get quite annoyed at having to leave some of their gold at home. I'd be excluded in that, since I'm always playing a really strong character, who doesn't need gold when they're running around slaughtering things. But that's beside the point, since a lot of people like to be magic-users or ninja-esque characters. Or the whole "can only hold so many weapons at once" idea someone had. I'm intrigued by that, but by and large, other players would get annoyed.

So, we have the Construction Set to tailor things more to our personal liking.

I wouldn't mind greater body-customization at character creation, but other than that, not really. You can have strong, beefy, tubby guys and strong, lean, thin guys. With the system proposed, every "class" would end up looking exactly the same in the end.

only if it doesn't change the face
if I'm going to spend an hour perfecting the face, I don't want it to be warped the first time I level up my strength

I thought the one in Oblivion was pretty good. I don't know how I'd begin to alter it.



It could be avoided with the right system, but again, it's the kind of feature that should really be left up to each player to decide whether to implement or not.

I spend a lot of time making my character, and I don't want him to end up looking like a wrestler because I increased his Strength attribute.

I would be more than happy with being able to choose from a few generic body templates during character creation. I did get pretty tired of all of my characters in Oblivion being lean, with super well defined muscles.

Meh.



Eeewwwww... :yuck:



Thinking about it- I think this in bold is the best answer to the entire idea overall. :thumbsup:

Or worse yet, you've got a really awesome Sub-Zero scar and it gets ruined by a big glowing rune.

I think strength should affect muscle size and tone, as long as it is somewhat realistic. If my character has 100 strength, I want him to look pretty muscular. I don't think any of the other attributes should visualize themselves though, since I don't see how it could be done realistically. Then again, if the new engine can't accommodate this very well, then it isn't really a big deal.

Subtle! It must be subtle! Subtle should be written in big letters and be underlined, I think. Otherwise it would completely ruin things...

After reading the comments here though, I've pretty much changed my mind, a bit more.
At first I was a bit unsure...
Now I say: very subtle, or not at all. And the developers shouldn't work on it if they think it takes too much time or energy for them. They should focus on more important stuff then, that everyone wants (like unique landscapes). Clearly this is a topic that is greatly divided. Therefore I think this won't be included in the game... most likely ^^

Personally I have two reasons not to want it.

1.) As others have said, some of us spend a lot of time designing our characters to be exactly as we want them. Forcing the character to undergo superficial changes as he develops would undermine the time we spend to make our characters unique and personal.

2.) Apart from Strength, there aren't any Attributes for which such a system would make any sense... No one in this thread has posted a decent suggestion for how any other Attribute would visually manifest itself on the player's character, and I cannot think of any way it would work myself.

I was exaggerating for humor, mainly to make fun of Fable. I really hated it when I got my first glowing rune and it totally took away from the biggest scar on my character's face. I know that's not what you're going for, but one can't help but think of it.

We all have ideas that just don't work for everyone. I'd like it in a game if learning to use Frost magic to an extent starts turning your character into some kind of ice monster. That's more extreme than what you're proposing, but you get my point I think.

No!

Apart from the simple lack of choice involved, a system like this would more likely than not be based on common misconceptions about body shape and physical ability. Muscle size only implies functional strength up to a point (for the purposes of an adventurer/hero, who has greater functional strength: the body builder or the gymnast?). Another common misconception is that speed or agility is separate from strength, as a real attribute - actually, strong, efficient muscles are required to move the body rapidly or acrobatically (another example; who is more likely to be able to perform a backflip or sprint fast: the willowy, slender girl, or the 200lb-of-muscle guy?).

You need muscle to be strong, and you need strength to be fast, but you need huge bulging muscles for neither. The standard male physique in Oblivion already implies a way higher than average muscle mass, and much bigger would be more of a hindrance than it'd be worth.

Further, consider how fictional an attribute system this sort of "realism" would be applied to. Since attribute values for NPCs and monsters are limited to 100 by default, what sort of strength does a character with 100 strength actually have "in-character"? Superhuman strength? If so, then the character's physique is no longer representative of his strength anyway, since it has a supernatural, magical or divine source.

Lastly, it imposes great limitations on the types of character than can be created satisfactorily; being fantasy games, it's very easy to imagine characters whose appearances disguise physical (and mental) attributes far higher or lower than they seem.

Magical runes comming outta mah body? No gees!

All attributes wouldn't have to visualize themselves, such as Willpower and Intelligence. However, a weak character should look weaker than a strong character (strength), but no other skill should have any visual effect.

And if only one has, then none has to have.

This is something I have always hated about games such as KOTOR and Fable. You are forced to look a certain way because you chose a certain path. I wouldn't neccesarily want large muscles just because I went a combat-orientated path, nor would I want runes all over my body as I decided to be a mage.

As an optional choice? Sure. Otherwise no

Please, for the love of the nine, do not do this. Realism is one thing, but this is a fantasy game and I do not want every character with a decent strength to look brutish. Runes should not cover the body, and for stealth... yeah. I think the Fable games (which I love) did this terribly, especially in regards to females. My one female character was a monstrosity by the end of the game, a hulking behemoth of a woman with ugly blue lines scarring her body, who towered over the average man while managing to attract everyone within a mile of her.