Some of those buildings have been repurposed. The Bunker by the building which houses the Department of Finance and administraion was used by Environment Australia as an office last time I checked. There's also the rumours about the tunnel between the lodge, Parlement house, and the Defense complex.

Aye, my uncle in fact worked on site in one of these bunkers for about a year in the Signals Corps of the Australian Army. Didn't say much obviously, just that they exist.

To me, even though they are restructured; they once served the purpose of a bunker in the worst case scenario showing that the Australian government seems to be as paranoid as the US.
Considering the significant technological advances of the Fallout Universe, despite increasing tensions in the Pacific I believe Australia would have had the wealth to construct their own vaults. This is all mainly based on my heavy belief that China would not have successfully invaded Australia with or without the US.

I think Ron Perlman says it best during the intro to fallout one. "In two brief hours most of the planet was reduced to cinders." and In Fallout 2 "continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling Oceans." "world almost being wiped clean of all life." it is safe to say that there is no "Oasis" left untouched by the war, unless it is in some unknown Vault some where in the world.
I am not sure if most other countries besides the USA could afforded to have such an extensive vault building program. The world before the war was on the edge of a great depression. Don't forget about the FALLOUT from all the Nukes going off. The worlds climate had changed greatly after the "bombs fell". Inland Australia is already close to a wasteland. Everything irradiated no more rain and all coast cities being flooded. China would want Australia and so would the States so they would Nuke it just out of spite "I can't have it no one can." If they would start a world Nuclear war then that would not be out of their scope to do. It does not look good for Australia.

I don't agree with the lack of money concept, I believe that if technology expanded rapidly to the point in which robots were replacing humans in the trade and agriculture industry then Australia would have experienced a boon in their export of mining and agriculture goods, especially that of Uranium used in Nuclear Devices.

With that money, they would have surely built vaults just like the US.

With Robots doing all the work do you think the people would have jobs? No jobs no money, when Robots take jobs only the rich get rich. With so many people out of work I think the government would have to spend their money on other things besides vaults. In the years leading up to the great war it was every country for themselves, there would be no international lending. Many Nations were already in the Hole. Most Uranium was used up by that time

"To many humans not enough resources to go around."

So? It doesn't really stop the government from being exceptionally wealthy and they're the ones buying the Vaults.

Also I think its worth noting that there wouldn't be a lack of jobs, with the Chinese threat in the pacific, the Australian Defense Force would have increased their recruitment significantly.
And with factories being automated, making weapons and supplies would be less expensive.

Oh yeah, and if most Uranium was used up by then we must have made quite a lot of money.

Goverment jobs like being in the goverment COST Money! Where will the govermnet get it? not from mining the resource were almost used up. Plus you helped my point they would have to take what little money they had left to pay for their defence, navy and army and so on. I am not ruling out vaults but to have as many as the states had I can't see happening. The super powers of the day would have threatened Australia to give them what ever minerals they wanted at a dirt cheap price. There was no UN before the War Who would help them? It is wishful thinking to say that Australia is doing as well as America after the war.
If most of your jobs are people working for the goverment then you are not making money from taxing them. It is a endless cycle, their taxes pay themselves. There will be no profit.

I don't see your point, I've already told you. Due to the government making most trade, mining and farming jobs automated they would have made an exceptional profit from England and the European Commonwealth - both of which have no means to threaten Australia.
With this money, they would have put some of it to defense. Most of this would have been in motion far before 2050 which is when I believe the world actually became desperate and resorted to open warfare.
By then, we would have had a professional standing military and wealth generated from,
bauxite, coal, iron ore, copper, tin, gold, silver, uranium, nickel, tungsten, mineral sands, lead, zinc, diamonds, natural gas, petroleum

Any other super power in the world would also lack the means to "Threaten" Australia for their resources. In regards to America and China, that would leave them severely exposed to either side. They'd rather just settled for a trade agreement, and one thing America could have offered Australia were... You guessed it! Vault schematics and designs.

Frankly in this world, it seems any threat being sent to Australia would be met with the political version of a middle finger.

you are not getting my point. professional standing military Cost a Crap load of money! One that can fight off a super power would be a 100 times more costly! taxing goverment workers like solders does Not make profit for the government if most of your population is working for the government. Then you are not making any money. you need alot of people in the private sector ie: Mining farming. If Robots are doing all the work people used to do in the private sector then only the rich that run the now automated private sector will make money and we all know how willing the rich are to pay their cut of taxes. England was in it's own money troubles. My best point is There was no longer a European Commonwealth by the Great war! The UN and EU were gone Europe was self destructing. America developed the vaults in complete secret.If your enemies know of the vaults don't you think that they would target them?. America only started to build vaults just before the Great war.

The Resources were running out long before the Resource wars started.

Firstly, you are comparing the standard wage earned by modern military personnel in this world. It may be considerably less in the Fallout universe due to lacking jobs.

I never said they had to defeat a large super power, you need to think outside of the box. If Australia really wanted to keep China at bay, they'd get Indonesia involved in that conflict.
I'm saying that we would have a large standing army of enough people to provide a suitable defense if needed.

Would unemployment be rampant? Yes, would the government care? Maybe, they would attempt to find jobs for those in the private owned corporations left over, who would in turn have to pay tax to the government anyways, so the money keeps flowing.

Secondly, you assume that the agriculture and mining industries are private owned? I would highly doubt it in this situation, the government I'm thinking of would have almost certainly annexed all of those operations as soon as they saw the resource problem in the world.
OR severely taxed big business without mercy.

Thirdly, private owned hospitals, psychologists, and any specialist people whom robots cannot replaced would continue to be tax paying individuals. Also, I think its worth noting that most retail and fast food would continue to use Humans to maintain that personal touch.

Bottom line, would any of this stop the Australian government from building vaults?
No, it would not.

To the extent that the Americans did?
I doubt it, I'd imagine there would be selected people who would be chosen to survive in certain vaults.

My guess is that Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne would have the vaults. Largest population.

I also suspect that there would be a vault for the families of the two Special Forces regiments in Australia. If I wanted anyone to survive such an apocalypse, it would be those guys.

you don't know how economics works do you? I work for the government they tax me, they take my taxes and give it back to me. See the problem with that? Plus you said that your goverment would take over the private sector that makes it WORCE! you have just describe a communist Australia. Do you see that happening to your country? If unemployment is rampant then the people will be a threat to the government. example collapse of the soviet union in are timeline.
you are not getting my point. professional standing military Cost a Crap load of money!! taxing goverment workers like solders does Not make profit for the government if most of your population is working for the government. Then you are not making any money. you need alot of people in the private sector ie: Mining farming. If Robots are doing all the work people used to do in the private sector then only the rich that run the now automated private sector will make money and we all know how willing the rich are to pay their cut of taxes. England was in it's own money troubles. My best point is There was no longer a European Commonwealth by the Great war! The UN and EU were gone Europe was self destructing. America developed the vaults in complete secret.If your enemies know of the vaults don't you think that they would target them?. America only started to build vaults just before the Great war.

The Resources were running out long before the Resource wars started.

Again you are comparing all of this to what YOU know about THIS WORLD. Fallout is a much different world, with different economics. You assume that the value in which YOU hold in THIS WORLD is comparable to that of the Fallout Universe.

You're also putting words in my mouth, I never said they would tax the military. That's redundant, the government would make an enormous amount of profit from taking over the mining and agricultural industries, along with generating their own means of feeding people who don't have jobs.
Heck the Australian government now days makes a considerably amount of money from taxing big business such as the mining companies, imagine the wealth they'd have if they owned them and paid their employees the minimum wage.

All you have to do is pump patriotic propaganda into their heads, tell them they're fighting the good fight against the Reds and they're none the wiser.

As I also mentioned, there would still be private owned sectors in the specialist, retail and fast food industries.

You seem rather naive to assume that towards the end of everything, Communism and Democracy was really separated? Are you serious? In a resource war such as that there would be a very FINE LINE between both of them. Are you even beginning to assume America didn't start to show communist tendencies in such a time? An even so, your point of Australia slowly becoming communist is also without weight considering that in this day and age we're border-line socialists already.

Look at what America did to Canada! xD


The Vaults? A secret? Are you kidding me? They had them advertised all over the museum of technology and all over the cities, it's in the game!
Of course every other nation on the planet would know about them, heck the USSR, China and Europe probably had their own versions of it.

You are considering all of this with a very narrow perspective.

And targeting the vault would do little to nothing. Sure you could collapse the tunnel but then they just open the door and dig themselves out

I see what you are saying about Fallout Australia they would become like a communist Big Brother Nation. Ok I will give that to you.

Australia would be very low if not out of Resources long before Vaults come into play.

You say they would have made their Awesome amount of money that they could sit on to pay for future vaults. That could be.

America did make the vault top secret. America eventually advertised the vaults yes but they did not give out the info on them. They did not tell the world where they are or how to make their own. That could help their enemies.

The Big Brother propaganda the USA and the world were using to control their people would also keep information from flowing freely between nations. The internet would be like China's internet today.

The vaults were not built till close to the great war they did not tell people about them till right up to the bombs falling, advertising the vaults was last minute like in the last year or so before the War. If Australia was given the vault info it would be to late for them to build very many. America did not even have enough to finish all the ones they wanted to build.

Again Australia would not be an innocent bystander when the war came. China America and Others would bomb it out of Spite. climate change would make All of Australia nothing but a sahara like desert. The parts that did not fall beneath the boiling Oceans that is. Not to many people would live after all that.

Plus the people running America at the time leading up to the war were like the Enclave in the Fallout games. Do you see them as helpful technology sharing, helpful people?
The vaults were not built or designed to save people anyways. They were built with the help of Vault tech for sociological experiments on people to help the pre-war Enclave with their Plans.

Officially, the Vaults were nuclear shelters designed to protect the American population from nuclear holocaust. However, with a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13. Even with a smaller population Austalia would need to build alot of vaults to save their people.

I know I have been estimating the timeline but I know I am close to it.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault

I think I have made all the points I can think of about Australia having vaults and what not. In all I think what happened to Australia is that it suffered as much or worce then the rest of the planet. I don't think Australia is a "Oasis" left untouched by the war. I can see people living in small villages. I see an Australia like Mad Max but without the Gas powered cars and way less people.

Eh, you see the concept of a vault isn't really top secret stuff. I mean, anyone could have figured out the need for such a structure and if anything every nation had their own design. The complex machinery associated with a vault? Heck some of it could have been invented here, we have some pretty bright cookies in the scientific world like many other folk.

My theory is that Australia did have vaults from whatever funds they had left over from the Great War, but not as numerous as the US. Perhaps they were larger and built in specific areas for certain people to inhabit. Chances are selective people based on grades, genetics and criminal history were chosen to be placed in these vaults, rather than what America did.

And big brother politics doesn't stop espionage. ;D I think there were some James Bond figures out there.


Thing is, I'm not 100% sure on what the population relations would be when it comes to Australians and Americans assuming the Australians had multiple vaults. I mean, American population in the 2277 world is very much threatened by Mutants, slavers and raiders, I'm curious as to whether Australia would have such an extensive problem with that considering potential weather disasters wiping out most 'potential' mutants.

So none of us would even be certain as to the living standards of survivors in that country.

Speculation is fun.

Yeah, gotta watch out for those silos disguised as barbies...

As for power armor...I hear you can make quite a lot of useful things with empty Foster's cans...

(JUST KIDDING!)

Seriously though, as to vaults and whatnot. Australia has something much of the US (except the plains states) don't have. Millions of square acres of hard-pack flatland, perfect for excavation. If that isn't enough, Australia has some very impressive rocky terrain just perfect for underground installations.

Furthermore, monetary considerations aside, nationalizing various mining companies would provide the government with cheap, almost unlimited labor fully equipped with the best mining machinery the world has to offer, not to mention a ready supply of materials for maintaining and repairing those mining machines (copper, bauxite, iron, diamond dust, gold, uranium, etc). Workers would most likely be given 'first crack' at lotteries for a certain number of vault slots (rebuilding takes more than eggheads and soldiers, after all), given extra rations (enforced rationing would have begun during the resource wars, as well as government stockpiling), and given as many hot air promises as possible.

Australia being situated as it is, would also become a port of call for special forces, scientists and paranoid wealthy folk around the globe who would probably flock there both for it's seeming (even if false) remoteness from the troubles of the world, and it's easy access to excavation and construction resources.

Vaults don't have to have 6" thick steel walls. In the 1950's, fallout and bomb shelters, based on WW2 designs, were all the rage. Companies were building backyard shelters for as little as 1,500 to 2,500 US dollars, usually made by digging an oversized storm cellar and lining it with rebar reinforced concrete ranging from inches thick in cheap 'vaults' to several feet thick in more pricey units.

This 'backyard industry' would probably take off wildly in most countries and Australia, again with its prodigious mining industry, would probably be in the forefront.

I forsee that the communists would probably pop a few nukes at Australia, mainly centered around the capitol, but because they would intend to come and pillage the country later, would spare much of it...people included...after all, dead men don't make good slaves, and China would definately institute slavery to support their efforts to [censored] the nation of it's resources as quickly as possible.

Furthermore, I disagree vehemently with anyone who says the U.S. would say 'screw it' and nuke Australia just to keep it out of the hands of the communists.

So there you have it...a country filled with 'mouse holes', waiting for the fallout to pass and nuclear winter to recede.

Coming out of their holes and vaults, those that survived would be greeted by a land harsher than they remembered..but considering the topography of much of Australia...not by much.

Plantlife would be mostly gone, but topsoil, though irradiated and mixed with fallout would still be there, hardy species that dropped their seeds would begin to spring back, though in mutated form, and indigenous animal life would mutate and adapt to the environment, being naturally more hardy than that found in the US.

I imagine that by 100 years after Armageddon in the FO universe, Australia would have an extensive series of towns and villages in 'outback' style.

Eh people don't realize how much bushland Australia actually has, its not that harsh. But any bushland we once had would be gone.
As for the Communists nuking Australia to take it over, doubtful. If you want to take over a country for yourself you don't nuke it, the Nukes were used as a last resort by China.
But yes, I see Australia having very extensive communities up in the mountains. There would probably be a BoS type order dedicated to killing super mutant, just... Slightly more practical.

Oh, and they'd probably have a much more charming name for them. Something along the lines of "Ugly B*ggers", "Fuglies" or "Big B*stards".

Any other way of invading Australia, well... The Japs can tell you that's not exactly a piece of cake.

Well I said Australia would be Nuked Out Of SPITE which means Other countries would Nuke you just so no other country would not be able to have you. They would do it to, they started a Nuclear World War so something like that would not be out of their realm of possibility. Everyone had plenty of Nuclear bombs and warheads to go around so I am sure China and USA to name a few, would have alot of Nukes just for such an ACT.

Australia would not have SUPER MUTANTS unless you guys had the FEV and In Fallout, Only the States Had that and FEV was not going to be given to other nations at all!.

If A Nation like China commits its it entire military wing to invading Australia you guys would be gone, just like if the USA wanted to invade Canada. Again I am not talking about people Nuking to Invade I am talking about doing it out of pure Spite.

That statement wasn't in response to you.

Secondly, Japan once upon a time committed its entire military towards taking over the pacific, it didn't end well for them. US Military Commanders now days will tell you that the prospect of successfully taking over Australia with a modern day military is a daunting task which seems to mathematically end in the invaders losing more than they gain.

The Japanese were even hesitant to invade Australia based on the premise that their "National personality would see every last one of their civilians and military personnel fight to the end".

Two significant military powers have second-guessed such a task, what makes you think that China in its war with the US would risk opening up its flanks and invading Australia only to lose so much of their standing army that could be used to defeat the US?
Also, last time I checked they were more focused on invading the United States itself.

It just doesn't make sense logically, not to mention the fact that China would have to go through Indonesia and New Guinea to get to Australia. The Chinese HATE Muslims, want to take a guess at what the major ethnic religion of the Indonesian people is? All Australia would have to do is use the Indonesians against the Chinese. Australia's major defensive initiative to this date dictates the use of the Island Nations to its north as "Shields" against an assault.

Fact of the matter is, China has bigger fish to fry and in the end of it. I'd probably see the US making the Australians put pressure on the Chinese in the pacific so they can release the stranglehold on Anchorage.

If anything, Australia would probably seem like a useful "tool" to the Americans. Not a target.
And I also disagree with the fact that America would nuke Australia, the task is redundant and they'd want to count their friends in the aftermath.

And I suppose you're right about the FEV Virus, although I'm curious how far that could have potentially spread. There would still be 'Muties' around the joint such as Ghouls and forms of Trogs that need mopping up.

Well I am going to talk about the FEV first. The FEV was not contagious it did not breakout and infect people. America was testing in the West Tek Research Facility in california. After the Great war a man named Richard Grey came across the West Tek Research Facility. Along with Harold. The FEV was kept in Big Vat tanks. Grey fell in and became the master. Harold to was exposed to it and became a ghoul. In fallout 1 ghouls became ghouls because they were people with to much Radiation in their body and the FEV tuned them into ghouls not Super Mutants.
That changed so it was just people that got to much Radiation and became ghouls they took the FEV out of it. In fallout 3 they came up with this bs that Harold was exposed to a new form of Tree FEV crap or something like that.
Anyways Richard Grey Mutated so Much and became "THE MASTER." He talked some crazy people to let themselves be dunked in the Vat tanks. He then started the Children of the Cathedral a Cult that wanted to become super mutants. THe master then had is new Super Mutants go and take people and bring them back to the West Tek Research Facility to be dunked in the vats.
There was never an out break of FEV that infected people to make them Mutants. The FEV was made to make people stonger and immune to all chemical and bio weapons. It failed big time and they got Super Mutants. When power armour came out america went with that instend of making an army of freaks. Some were able to remain smart after being dunked. The ones in F3 are different but they still have to be Put into a room and exposed.

Japan invaded alot of countries and spread themselves out. If they went all out and just went for Australia they would have won. In Fallout by the time of the war no one would have Helped you.
China was not going to try and invade the states again and the states were not going to take over China. The great war lasted 2 hours. The instant the First Nuke was launched it was "GAME OVER MAN!, GAME OVER!" and everyone that had Nukes let them fly! everyone got hit. Australia was not going to be invaded by anyone, it was "GAME OVER MAN!." we don't know who started it but it is safe to say that who ever did it, saw the Enemy at the Gates and threw in the Towel. (China) They would have Nuked not just their enemies but everyone, just out of SPITE. They were not thinking of winning they wanted to take the world down with them, like Hitler did to Germany and the world in WW2.

The Great War was "GAME OVER MAN!, GAME OVER!"

So that all just increases the survival chances of people in Australia, really.

You're joking right? 'If they had gone all out, they would have won'? Firstly anyone invading Australia needs New Guinea as a stepping stone to this great nation. They couldn't even take New Guinea from us, by the time they came close to Port Morsby they had lost 50% of their invading force to the Australians who had only lost about 400 plus another 500 or so wounded. The Japanese in total of the entire track lost about 6,500 men, So I'll say that when they came to Morsby they had lost about 4,000. That's a significant difference between them, and the Australians would not budge from Morsby, you know why? Because they were so close to their supply lines that they could use Artillery and Mortars effectively, and dig in hard to thrust the Japanese back. Their defeat was so exceptional that they were told to retreat and conserve whatever infantry they had left, so the Australians chased the Japanese all the way back to their beach head and drove them out of there too.

Over all, 625 Australians Killed, 1,055 wounded, 6,500 Japanese dead and gone.

You underestimate how difficult invading a nation like Australia is, its greatest defense is its distance from anyone else.
If resources were as slim as you say they were, do you even think for a second that Russia, China or the US would waste all of their resources on an invasion plan that they don't even see as a success, let alone gain for them?

I think its also worth noting that you're comparing Canada to Australia. Firstly Canada, shares a border with the US, makes it a lot easier for the Americans to invade them... In fact, makes it very efficient on resources too.

Australia does not share a border... With anyone... FOR MILES! The two countries closest to them are New Zealand and New Guinea both of which are allies.

End of the story, China invading Australia = Many, many good soldiers they could have used on the yanks dead... Gone... Wasted. Entire stockpiles of supplies including ammunition, vehicles, aircraft, fuel all wasted for very little gain.
Their entire flank open to an attack from the United States.
Their forces spread out over the pacific ensuring their supply lines to the Australian nation.
Their troops further dying from heat stroke, wildlife and guerrilla warfare.

There is no success or logic in the plan you are suggesting, and the military commanders of their time would have seen this.

Well you are not getting my point During WW2 Japan invaded countries and Islands all over the pacific. Most of their Army and resources during world war 2 was spent on Invading CHINA. Japan Invaded China in 1937 and by 1939 had most of it under their thumb. America cut off Oil to Japan to try to get them to stop their war with China. Japan did not want to give up so they invaded others to get what they needed. They attacked America so they could have enough time to take what they need before America could get back on their feet to stop them. Japan had over 3 million solders in China. Millions more spent invading the philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and yes New Guinea and Vietnam as well as many others. They went to War with AMERICA!. I am saying if they did not do any of that. If Japan's Goal was only to take Australia and nothing else and had not Invaded China. They would have taken you out. Others might have come to help you but it would be to late. Others may have even taken Australia back for you. You guys may have even had a great guerrilla war going on. Most likely Japan would have taken you fast enough that other nation would just say fine have it.

In Fallout No one would have HELPED you!

I am right about the FEV.

You do not understand the forces behind the Pacific War you really are not getting this at all.

THERE IS NO AVOIDING CAPTURING PACIFIC ISLANDS TO GET TO AUSTRALIA. You HAVE TO spread out your forces, to MAINTAIN YOUR SUPPLY LINE.
This would incite a war with INDONESIA. Who have a population of 200 Million in this day and age.

This is as clear as I can make that point.

Secondly.

You do not understand the geography of New Guinea. It doesn't matter how many forces you have on that island, they pack in tightly and movement is limited, it was described as "Australia's Thermopylae".

Thirdly,

The FEAR behind an ATTACK FROM AMERICA would be enough for China to second guess such an attack.
Not to mention they'd originally be busy with Japan first.

All of this giving Australia ample time to fortify positions and build up the one bane to any invading force, a significant long-range fighter plane arsenal.

The entire effort of invading Australia is quite simply a complete, and utter waste of resources. Many of your men will die, to even less casualties on the Australian side. You will be fighting an enemy that is consistently underestimated and has only ever proved itself in history to nearly always come out on top.
And you will be up against a guerrilla force in the Pacific Islands that gave the Viet Cong nightmares.

There is absolutely no logical stand-point or purpose in wasting that many resources to invade a nation that will fight you to the end. And use all the terrible and bloody methods in the book to do so.
Are you not getting this?

I never said you were wrong about the FEV.

America Was to worried about Germany and Hitler, that is why when Japan attacted pearl harbour they crapped their pants! They saw little threat from Japan. America was taking ships and men from the Pacific to send them to the Atlantic incase they went to war with Germany.

Japan could have easly taken New Guinea and other Islands around Australia first then Australia second in very little time if they had Never Invaded China. If Japan Had no Enemies, not at war with anyone they could have taken you if that was their goal from the beginning. Fear of America would be minimal. America was not ready for a fight. Japans Navy would be at full strength.


This has gone from what would happen to Australia in the Fallout World to Could Australia Win against Japan in the 1940's era in are time. We have gone off topic big time. I understand your dedication to your home land. I really do but we have gone off topic with this.

As for what happened Fallout Australia I have explained all I could have. Since we are no longer talking about it I am guessing you agree with me on what I have said? Maybe?

Maybe we should let others step in a have a say?