Well to PC players, controller users = console players and the hostility is more directed at them.

1 Multiplayer in PC games used to last much longer, so the games themselves could have a much higher skill curves.

2 Features being removed or added when the customer doesn't want them make the customer angry.

3 Due to consoles, features are being lost or added to PC games; missing dedicated servers, mod support, custom map support, prone and lean, graphics options, demo recording, streaming, anti cheat, laggy server browsers, overpowered kill-streak rewards (Maximum Nanosuit), admin tools, quick save, quick levelling up, linear maps.

4 Xbox has features PC doesn't, imagine if an Xbox game stopped any chat, didn't have achievements etc, people would right so not be happy.

5 The reason consoles are more popular isn't the controls are better, its prices and they're easier for split screen, using with TVs, moving around etc. I find PC gaming better on my back because Im tall, have an expensive desk chair and desk at the correct height ect. whist I normally game on the edge of a sofa sitting upright.

Oh man... you so did not ask for Auto Aim on a PC thread :S
The mouse is like the god of PC gaming, it requires skill and accuracy, learn to use it properly and you can dominate ANY situation.
Auto-aim is just a scrappy concept meant to increase accuracy and advantage on clunky joysticks. It plagues the the need for skill even on consoles, since you can pretty much headshot by shooting some dude in the foot.

Crytek did what was right and put both controllers and mice at the same advantage instead of having some controller noob scoring headshots 2cm away from the head while a PC guy misses just 2mm of the head

**** auto aim you noob. I hate it and it is in every game. Why would you want that crap. You want Auto aim go play call of duty

And the mouse is for noobs who like to live the illusion that they actually have skills rather than wake up to the fact that their speedy high DPI mouse is what is actually giving them high scores.

You guys speak as if the keyboard and mouse is actually you, and that the high speed of aiming you get from the mouse is demonstrating your skill. It's nothing to do with your skill.

The ability to change DPI on the fly is most certainly a "leg-up" that is a bit questionable in this respect.

The only way to truly prove you have skill is to have a tournament where all gamers have the same identical specs as each other. Macros would be banned, and everyone is playing with the exact same keyboard or even controller. That's how you prove you have skills.

This is why tournaments typically have their own systems set up for this behavior. This isn't a tournament scenario, but it doesn't mean that in this competitive environment player will accept and put up with the aforementioned "guard rails" put up during bowling.

You may prefer to sit like a stiff zombie in solitary confinement in a cold basemant stuck for hours hunched up over a keyboard and mouse playing "twister" on the keys with your WASD fingers and desperately trying to develop carpel tunnel syndrome in your wrist, and that is your choice.

If you're developing carpal tunnel by using a keyboard and mouse, you are most definitely doing it wrong. Ergonomics is important yes, but with a bit of diligence you can use it just fine. This is one of those generalizations people in favor of "controllers for everything" spout when it just isn't true. There's a right way to use a keyboard, and there's a wrong way. If you're injuring yourself, you're doign it the wrong way.

When I come home in the evenings from work, I use gaming to relax. The more I game is the more relaxed I feel because I am on the sofa with my relaxing controller.

Fair enough.

I have already explained why the controllers are attractive to use. It's irrelevant how fast your mouse can target an enemy. What counts is each persons preferences. A controller is far more relaxing and comfortable to use. I can stand up and shift over to the other side of the sofa without even pausing the game.

It is entirely relevant when you're playing a competitive game. The input is an extension of your intent, and by having a controller you actively decide to choose one method of telling the game what to do over anther. In this case, the controller is less precise than the mouse, hence why you are arguing in favor of aim-assist.

You simply cannot do any such thing with a keyboard and mouse. You are stuck for hours in the same position. I can sit down on the floor, put the controller on my lap, lift the controller up in the air and stretch my arm muscles, go back to the sofa and still continue gaming. Meanwhile, you haven't even moved an inch in the past hour, and you are developing severe cramp in that "locked down" hunched position. Like I said, it's all about preferences.

Again, a generalization. With more robust wireless systems in place, people can play and adjust just where their input devices are. Does the keyboard and mouse rely on a flat surface? Yes, but that doesn't mean that flat surface can't be moved.

If you think that the keyboard and mouse is a nice way to game, then that's up to you. That's your opinion. Nobody here is trying to force you to use the controller. It's you keyboard guys that are arrogantly telling others that they MUST use the keyboard and mouse or suffer abuse by angry keyboard elitists who have far too much of an excess of tension from their hour-long stressful gaming sessions of fiddling about with keys, and the pressure from them carpal tunnel syndromes. It's about personal preferences.

Still a load of generalizations and "Your doing it wrong".

However, I still don't understand why a keyboard and mouse gamer would fear a controller with Auto Aim.

If you know that the mouse will always be quicker, then what's the problem?

I personally don't like auto aim, but I liked the fact that it was an option in the demo.

The problem is having computer-assisted gameplay in the game when the community's majority "do not want". It's not a "Keyboard and mouse is better" it's a "the computer shouldn't DO anything for you".

The problem now is that some controller users who played the demo, bought Crysis 2 being led to believe that the game would have Auto Aim because it was in the demo. But then Auto Aim suddenly disappeared from the retail version. So, for those gamepad users who prefer to have auto aim, they can argue that they were mislead, or the game was mis sold by Crytek. This is the point you guys are missing.

Completely understandable, but that's on Crytek, not the PC community.

after you get proficient with the keyboard and mouse, there is no way you'd ever want to go back to a controller. all you got to do is practice.

It's not about getting the practice in, it's about whether the game is fast paced or not.
Crysis 2 is so fast paced sometimes, I find that Auto-Aim is a good friend since it gives a little support.
Tell me, have most of you guys played the demo on the console or have you just stuck to PC support?
Even with auto-aim, I found it hard to use keyboard and mouse (one reason why I got wired controller). As soon as I get the game...BAM! Auto-aim is gone forever and I just bought a controller for 1 less reason >:C
If there was no AA in COD, there would be far less newbies, and without newbies you lose money and lose the chance to get exp. There would also be players who are just BAD without that support. I'm dyspraxic and I have trouble with co-ordination. To me, Crytek have shut the doors on those with existing conditions and those who are starting out. One thing is for sure, I'm not wasting my time trying to shoot the ****er speeding in front of me anymore. Why do you think people hack when you take something away?

EDIT: By the way, dyspraxia is not the excuse, it's just a condition that makes it so much harder to co-ordinate myself and keep focused. I lose trust in games when my favourite games get rid of my favourite features.

Why do you think people hack when you take something away?

If you choose to hack as a result of Aim-Assist being removed, you really have no business being in a competitive environment.

EDIT: By the way, dyspraxia is not the excuse, it's just a condition that makes it so much harder to co-ordinate myself and keep focused. I lose trust in games when my favourite games get rid of my favourite features.

As much as I sympathise with you, there is still no place in a competitive environment for user assist features, all it should come down to is the raw skill of the individual.

That said, if it is that vital that you have some sort of auto-aim feature, ask Crytek whether they can introduce a slower place casual mode with auto aim. Although the reinstatement of it is highly unlikely at this stage and the inability to mod Crysis 2 pretty much removes any community patches.
Sorry man, consoles are the place for auto aim, never the PC, thats part of the reason Halo 2 died on PC so quickly

Because this is PC.

If you can't aim using a mouse, then you might as well just stop playing on the PC.

I'm willing to bet the only reason Crytek decided to take out aim assist was because of the "exploit" where you could have a controller connected and still use keyboard and mouse and get the aim assist. Instead of fixing their own bug, (one of very many) they just said screw it and got rid of it entirely. How hard would it have been to do something like Left 4 Dead does and let you choose what input you want to use and disable the other one?

@ the "go play your console" guys:
Get the hell out of here. I bought $1500 worth of components and built my pc from scratch and I am entitled to play games in native 1080p with 8x AA locked at 60 frames with whatever input device I see fit. Just because I grew up with a controller in my hands doesn't mean I don't have the right to enjoy a superior gaming experience on a pc.

Let it be known I'm not the OP and I'm not complaining about the lack of aim assist. I'm actually not having any trouble getting kills without it. Just can't stand seeing the same old typical pc elitist garbage, "You use a controller? Go play your console noob." Come up with something new would you?

Auto Aim? Really? Maybe your Console should just finish the game for you too. A PC Player with one eye closed and w,a,s,d, r and 2 buttons would rip you a new one. Children and consoles require Auto aim to compensate for over steer and under steer.

No, Repeat, no console player going head-to-head would ever beat a PC Gamer. Unless of course they cripple the PC version. They've already run this scenario:
They took expert console gamers and pitted them against average PC Gamers and the PC gamers wiped the floor with them.

Simply put, Mouse and Keyboard are unmatched in FPS (Unless cheating is utilized or developer cripples PC game mechanic).

Enjoy your version and zip it. PC Gamers already get the short end of the stick with the crappy, poorly lazy coded, crippled versions for money's sake.

One other thing, Consoles get pirated quite a bit too, but that announcement would be bad for business and the precious couldn't handle that.

Nuff said, I grow weary of twerps.


Battlefield Bad company 3: Lead, PC Platform, Direct-X 11.

LOL!!!!!

why on earth would u want auto aim on the pc version????

console yes cos it would help

but a mouse is more sensitive than a controller so its not needed

rev

Hmm I must be playing with a lot of bad pc gamers then. I have have matches like this fairly often.

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Hmm I must be playing with a lot of bad pc gamers then. I have have matches like this fairly often.

you were playing crashsite, where the objective is to take and hold the drop pod, not get as many kills as possible. seeing as you only have 150 points to your 33 kills, I would say in that situation they were better than you.

To those stating that as they have forked out thousands for a superior gaming rig, therefore should be able to play with whatever input device they like, I completely agree!

But

Don't expect Crytek to cater for your fat wallets you idiots. You spent that money knowing full well what input device is standard for the pc, so don't complain that you were somehow deceived into believing you would have someone to hold your hand throughout the process.

Hmm I must be playing with a lot of bad pc gamers then. I have have matches like this fairly often.

you were playing crashsite, where the objective is to take and hold the drop pod, not get as many kills as possible. seeing as you only have 150 points to your 33 kills, I would say in that situation they were better than you.

I know what the objective is. However, my teammates were sitting on the pod most of the game. With most of the team holding the pod, I think a good player gets proactive and goes and takes out the enemy team as they're making their way to the pod, instead of just sitting on the pod waiting to be ambushed. But you obviously know more than I do.

That being said, how come you had nothing to say about the instant action? Maybe I just got lucky 25 times? I could post countless team instant action (what I usually play) mvp screenshots but it's not worth spamming a forum just to prove a point to you.

I'm not trying to say I'm good, that's not what this is about and I know lots of people could hand me my ass. But the whole idea that you CAN'T be competitive or even kick some ass with a controller just simply is not true, especially in a game like this where you can employ so many different tactics/strategies to best suit your play style.

To those stating that as they have forked out thousands for a superior gaming rig, therefore should be able to play with whatever input device they like, I completely agree!

But

Don't expect Crytek to cater for your fat wallets you idiots. You spent that money knowing full well what input device is standard for the pc, so don't complain that you were somehow deceived into believing you would have someone to hold your hand throughout the process.

Rage much? Couple things wrong with your post:

1.) I'm not an idiot
2.) I work hard for my money and can spend it however I choose. Sorry you apparently don't have a good pc.
3.) How pissed off would you be if your mouse felt fine in the demo and then after you shelled out your $60 it felt broken?
4.) I'm not even the OP. All this rage of yours is misplaced. I play with a controller and am doing just fine.

Velozzity:you say that they should add auto aim in MP so that you can show the kb/mouse guys how to shoot? Are you a IDIOT!!!??? If auto aim is on youre not shownig anyone that you can shoot youre just showing that youre actually useless.

And the mouse is for noobs who like to live the illusion that they actually have skills rather than wake up to the fact that their speedy high DPI mouse is what is actually giving them high scores.

You guys speak as if the keyboard and mouse is actually you, and that the high speed of aiming you get from the mouse is demonstrating your skill. It's nothing to do with your skill.

So anyone with an high DPI mouse get's high scores???? I don't think so.

When I come home in the evenings from work, I use gaming to relax. The more I game is the more relaxed I feel because I am on the sofa with my relaxing controller.

I have already explained why the controllers are attractive to use. It's irrelevant how fast your mouse can target an enemy. What counts is each persons preferences. A controller is far more relaxing and comfortable to use. I can stand up and shift over to the other side of the sofa without even pausing the game.

You simply cannot do any such thing with a keyboard and mouse. You are stuck for hours in the same position. I can sit down on the floor, put the controller on my lap, lift the controller up in the air and stretch my arm muscles, go back to the sofa and still continue gaming. Meanwhile, you haven't even moved an inch in the past hour, and you are developing severe cramp in that "locked down" hunched position. Like I said, it's all about preferences.

By that time your hand might stay in the way your controller is shaped.
And if playing so much from your couch is comfortable, then when are you not on it? because face it most people , ecspecially in a work week , don't do much besides sitting home watching tv or something. (in the evening) so you might as well tie your ass to your couch.

If you know that the mouse will always be quicker, then what's the problem?

A disadvantage and possible exploit.

The problem now is that some controller users who played the demo, bought Crysis 2 being led to believe that the game would have Auto Aim because it was in the demo. But then Auto Aim suddenly disappeared from the retail version. So, for those gamepad users who prefer to have auto aim, they can argue that they were mislead, or the game was mis sold by Crytek. This is the point you guys are missing.

And what about DX11 Support , Mod support , Map Editor , those are all features we where promised but , didn't get it either. For the pc Version of Crysis II which would have the most negative impact do you think?
1-Pc gamers can't use auto-aim feature in an fps shooter.
2-Some of the features and exclusive benefits an pc version of a game can have are missing?(not to forget ,previous games had those.)

Face it an PC game , also First person shooter , how can you even think that controller input must be supported?
That's like buying an PS3 an then complain you can't use your xbox360 gamepad on it?
You buy an shooter for pc then play with accurate mouse, wonna play shooters with gamepad play on console.

Although i liked the thought from the first game where you could start or search for gamepad only servers ,
kinda like baking an pie where both sides can eat from.

Auto Aim should not be good.

Well at least most of the newer PC games allows you to use a controller (including Crysis 2) but crying over auto aim assist is removed is kinda petty IMO.
Look at it this way, you come to our turf (PC) and yet while the PC is pretty lax on what kind of HID you want to use, the console players want some kind of special treatment (auto aim).

How would you like it if the consoles allowed KB&M (with full custom key config) in the future? Every topic like this that have been posted in the past have got the same treatment like, stay on the PC, It would be unfair advantage, I play the console to relax and not to be competitive, or learn how to use a controller noob, ect.

Even cross platform games didn't work out so well as the PC players severely kicked the console gamers in game play in shadowrun and they even made the PC version when playing cross platform where they get no crosshair and recoil is stronger to give the console gamers a chance.

Personally I could care less if the auto aim is on the controller in games in most part (PC + console) as long as KB&M is supported on the consoles also (but we'll never see that happen). Even on consoles where they have the option to turn off auto aim assist, I turn it off and I got better by playing that way, same goes with the PC.

@ Sebastony30:

Congrats on missing Vengeance1's entire point. Just like you have the right to complain about all the missing features, gamepad users have the right to complain about the lack of aim assist, if not more so. Think about it. Aim assist was in the demo from day one. People play demos to see if they like the game enough to purchase it. They succeeded in the demo with aim assist. Now that it's gone it completely changes the whole game for them and they just wasted their $60. You're just complaining about extras. Extras that you'll end up getting in due time.

With all the aimbotters and stealth/wall hackers running around online you'd think some guy using a gamepad with aim assist, whose ass you should kick anyways if you're any good, would be the least of your problems. Taking into account all the bugs, cheating, and missing features this has been a somewhat disappointing release for everyone so far.

It's completely irrelevant that in your eyes pc gaming=keyboard and mouse. Crytek released the demo with aim assist, got their money from the console-converts, and pretty much turned around and screwed them. They have every right to be upset with Crytek. If you're unable to understand that then you're either incredibly stubborn, selfish, or just plain stupid. My money's on one of the first two.

how come u paid 60 $ for this game?
i paid 10 euro - for only a key...

Wow its now 48 pages.....i love it

OLD ARGUMENTS for the PRO AIM:

1. We feel robbed...crytek led us on that there will be auto aim in the actual game
2. Controllers are better

New Argument:
=i Prefer a controller because its more relaxing to use....and i don't want to get Carpal tunnel...and i want to play it on my couch

My Counter:

1. Don't we all feel robbed....the pc community was promised DX11...that's the reason why some of us, including me, bought high END GPU...Crytek promised that the leaked version was broken and the actual game won't be....they promised us security and there are hackers everywhere....they just promised you one more than us MK users....my advise deal with like some of Comrades who became skilled with a controller who are in fact at par with us

2. If you are those who say Controllers are better..cause its more ergonomic, better response, new age....blah blah blah then demand auto aim...I don't see your point...cause most of us will say you are a noob because of your Broken reasoning.... now if you are the few are topping the boards and using a controller or controller users dealt with the situation without biching (without hacks mind you)...you can debate with us all you like, cause you earned my respect like most MK users.

3. I spend my week in high stress job in my government as a E.R. Nurse...and in our country our hospital is one of the busiest seeing we cater to all walks of life but sadly we are way way underfunded and undermanned..and the current admission in our hospital is way way above its capacity(US nurses deal with 5 patients 7 at the most, i at the minimum deal 20 patient on a holiday) plus i volunteer as paramedic nurse for the RED CROSS why because of personal reasons...i see death almost weekly...and in some cases daily...don't i deserve to relax as well...and i find more relaxing to play CRYSIS 2...in front of my pC in the end of my shift...you have your couch i have my computer Chair....to each his own.

So anyone with an high DPI mouse get's high scores???? I don't think so.


No. It’s not the same thing as saying that anyone with a high DPI mouse gets high scores.

The point is that IF someone has a new mouse and then finds that their scores are now much higher than before, they may then brag and boast to the controller users about how good they are when it is clearly not their skill but the mouse that is quicker than the controller at aiming. The point is that the mouse does not automatically prove you have more raw skill than a gamepad controller user.

And what about DX11 Support , Mod support , Map Editor , those are all features we where promised but , didn't get it either. For the pc Version of Crysis II which would have the most negative impact do you think?
1-Pc gamers can't use auto-aim feature in an fps shooter.
2-Some of the features and exclusive benefits an pc version of a game can have are missing?(not to forget ,previous games had those.)

First, I am not the OP. I don’t care much for Auto Aim. I was sticking up for those who were being abused by hundreds of angry keyboard and mouse elitists.

Second, I also want DX11 and some other features that should have been in the game. Auto Aim does not cancel out the need for DX11.

Third, you are missing the point of the thread: the OP is arguing from the fact that an important feature to HIM was originally in the demo and now it is gone. So, some people can argue that they were misled into buying the game, and an important feature, for them, was taken out of the game. He probably played the demo thinking “Yes, this game feels just perfect for me with the Auto Aim on my controller, so I’ll buy the full game”. Then, he installs the full game and the important feature, for him, was removed..

So, the issue is not about which gaming input peripheral is the best at getting the most kills.

The issue is that the game was “mis sold” to the OP.

A disadvantage and possible exploit.


The removal of Auto Aim does not stop Aimbot hacks. So this is nothing to do with Aim Bot hacks. Yes, a keyboard could be used with the controller. There are ways that Crytek could have allowed Auto Aim for controllers only and disabled the keyboard and mouse if it detects you have a controller on, like Left 4 Dead.

Although i liked the thought from the first game where you could start or search for gamepad only servers

It’s very interesting how you argued against aim assist yet ended your post by mentioning gamepad only servers. It shows that you do know that Auto Aim for controllers does not necessarily have to adversely affect keyboard and mouse users. I wouldn’t mind using game pad only servers. There are also many other solutions Crytek could have looked at rather than over reacting and removing the feature completely.

By that time your hand might stay in the way your controller is shaped.


Actually, if I sit on a chair and casually rest my arms on my lap, the comfort in my hands feel very much similar to when I am holding a controller in my lap.

Hovering you WASD hand, with fingers over a flat keyboard on a table is not as natural as resting your hands down on your lap or holding a controller.

If you have an XBOX controller, try it and see. I won’t even mention again the carpel tunnel syndrome and other milder wrist and hand discomfort issues that are inherent with regular mouse usage.

With a keyboard, your forearm and hand tendons are not so relaxed because the keyboard requires a near-constant “pronated” tension in the forearm, as well as other “top wrist“ tensions. A controller, on the other hand, keeps the forearms and wrist in what is naturally the most comfortable lap resting positions for the forearms, wrist and hands, where the hands form a “right angle” against the lap.

And if playing so much from your couch is comfortable, then when are you not on it? because face it most people , ecspecially in a work week , don't do much besides sitting home watching tv or something. (in the evening) so you might as well tie your ass to your couch.


No, when I come home from work, I watch less TV than the average person. I use gaming to relax.

You also seem think that a controller user must remain seated on a couch for hours, yet a controller is actually more healthier, overall, than using a keyboard and mouse. For, example, I can choose to remain standing while gaming.

I can stand during a whole gaming session if I want. You cannot do that with your keyboard and mouse. You cannot just go from a seated position to a standing position without pausing the game and doing some major building works to raise the level of your “flat surfaced” keyboard and mouse.

I can stretch my arms up in the air to loosen my muscles while still gaming You cannot do that with the keyboard and mouse. You cannot lift your WASD hand in the air and magically continue to press the WASD keys with it.

You are stuck hunched in your chair stiff like a zombie for a whole gaming session on your keyboard and mouse. This is probably why you are so stressed out and angry by the end of your gaming session, while I feel both healthy and relaxed.

So which is more healthier, keyboard and mouse or a controller?

Face it an PC game , also First person shooter , how can you even think that controller input must be supported?
That's like buying an PS3 an then complain you can't use your xbox360 gamepad on it?


That anology does not make one bit of sense.

Sorry, but the PC is not a restrictive console where you can only use a particular type of control peripheral, or a particular brand of controller. The PC is, and has always been, the most versatile gaming platform since early home computers first began.

This “PC Elitism” talk that I have been hearing much more over the past few years is very ignorant. If your personal choice is to use the keyboard and mouse, that does not make you more of a True PC Gamer than another True PC Gamer who prefers to use a dual anologue controller.

I have been building PC’s for over 20 years, and gaming on PC’s and other non-IBM-compatible home computers for much longer than that. Quite possibly before you was even born. One of the main driving forces that pushed the early home computers into people’s homes, even more so than desktop publishing, was actually gaming. And, joysticks were quite popular. This allowed the user to have their own choice about which input device to use on major games. If a certain game did not support a particular peripheral, then sometimes, just like today, there were workarounds. So, any serious PC games developer should always take into account the support of multiple input devices, simply because there are, and has always been, PC gamers who may prefer a particular input device.