yay, I clicked an extra button! I feel accomplished!

So killing the enemy then looting his corpse is not an accomplishment by itself. You also have to pick the gold yourself. OH, you also MUST have to decide how many gold do you want to pick, every time. That's the true hardcoe RPG experience...
What was I thinking....

You don't have to agree but checking a body seeing a lot of gold is a nice suprise and a cool reward. Having the gold automaticaly transfer to me just sounds aweful to me. Honestly this is the worst news I've heared about Skyrim yet, but different strokes for different people so naturally you won't understand that.

We always had to click a button to take gold from a container before, and no one complained. Now apparently that could change, for no apparent reason, and this is supposed to be a good thing? I am not demanding an extra button click to take gold, I want to know if, and why, a perfectly unintrusive ( but part of the interaction and involvement ) button click is being removed from my control.

Click on body. Message appears:" You've found X gold!" Inventory screen is open for more looting...
There's your suprise.

And THIS is the WORST news yet? Okay, this is getting to the same level when Todd said "it won't be like Morrowind" and everybody suddenly decided that the game's going to svck...
EDIT:

Why not...

Because since Morrowind they have been at great pains, and expense, to create worlds in which you can pick up and throw any apple, tan cup or bolt of cloth, where the world you see around you can be interacted with as you see it, without many of the abstractions you get in other games. Why introduce these simplifying abstractions? Seems, imho, to be going against the spirit of one of the features that marks TES as different from, and indeed above, other rpgs. What next, the ME system where you win a battle, and the enemies equipment is automatically added to your inventory? No thanks, it ain't broke, it is in fact superior, don't 'fix' it.

sounds a lot like what was already talked in my thread http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1184438-behind-the-scenes-screenshots-what-can-we-find/page__p__17578347__fromsearch__1#entry17578347

A toggle or modifier key for it makes sense.

If it is only going to automatically transfer to you if you are ion the looting screen then why not have it was a lootable item? It seems to me that such a feature would be even more pointless if implented in such a way. I think auto loot is more liekly to happen once you've slain someone so that those who aren't bothered to check the body do get the gold.

But like someone else said this is going against the spirit of a TES game, and I've not said this before but I think this is dumbing down the game. The atributes removal didn't matter to me but this is dumbing down the game. And yes this si the worst news so far, nothing else they've said was something I disliked. Your Todd quote didn't mattter to me because what they've shown fo Skyrim itself looked great, so why should I care it isn't like Morrowind? But this is the first piece of news that makes me believe Skyrim won't be that fantastic on its own merits (for me anyway).

If you have problems with abstractions you shouldn't look at Skyrim you should look at the undropable gold of Oblivion, or even the weightless gold of Morrowind, the fact that you can carry more items than it should be realisticly possible, the fact that when you drop more than 3 items it appears as a single stack, the fact that there's a "take all" button...

If you have problems with gold picking up itself when you loot, there would be much bigger problems too...

Also, this doesn't stop the fact that gold wouldn't appear as an item in your inventory, or that you wouldn't be able to turn this feature off...

And other games did this too. Deus Ex, Dragon Age Origins, Wytcher...

I watched the Bethesda tour video again. And there was a question mark next to "Auto Take Gold" and it was on a whiteboard used to prototype features. That means that it's a possible feature, but not an absolute feature. As Todd Howard said in that same video, "documentation doesn't matter, it's what is in the game that matters." If anything, it'll be an optional feature. Is the option of having auto take gold so bad? No, it's not. If you don't want to use it, don't use it. If you do want to use it, then use it. I'd appreciate that option for those times when I really need some gold or am in a hurry. Other times, I will fully extend the other option of taking as much gold as I want. Nothing's confirmed yet, though. Calm down, people. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

Completely agree that gold should have weight, and be droppable, the stacking is probably a good idea if it prevents slowdown from huge numbers of objects suddenly needing to be rendered. Said in my first post I never use 'take all' in any games myself, but wouldn't want it removed, many find it convenient. I don't have anything against convenience, just have a problem with 'auto'.

Certainly, I wouldn't mind auto loot as an option. But it was you that said 'If anything, it'll be an optional feature' so it is not a fact and it is something to express our concern about. Because if it is in the game and if it isn't an optional feature then it will certainly demper my enjoyment of the game (might sound strange to some, I know). So this topic is important as Bethesda might lissen, it is not to late in the development cicle to actually make it optional or remove such a feature compleetly.

Also the fact that they are considering streamlined features such as auto-loot gives us an indication of the direction they are taking with Skyrim. So there is reason enough for us to show our concern.

I really don't think gold will have weight. Some might like it but many others won't since they like to have a lot of cash handy. It's "hardcoe" RPG mechanics (that in this case borderline annoyance IMO) vs accessibility. The only logical way of handling it and not annoy people would be making gold have no weight.

Since gold will almost surely be 0 weight I don't see what's all the fuss about. Sure they might add an "auto take gold" feature, big deal, won't make me like the game any less... if I like it that is (ah who am I kidding).

I hate using "streamline" and other related terms. They haven't removed inventory, character customization, exploration, optional quests, lore, or skills (all Elder Scrolls staples). I'd say that the additions of Dwemer ruins (returning from Morrowind), an Enchanting skill (also returning from Morrowind), dragons (a fan desire since the dawn of the ES), varied environments, and a host of other brilliant things show that they are moving in the right direction. Btw, the Bethesda tour video was shot in December of last year (around the time of the Skyrim announcement), so the Auto Take Gold thing has had about 4 or 5 months of criticism. Bethesda has certainly been listening.

OFF-TOPIC (sorry):
EDIT: The fact that the (epic) plot of this game is based around bits of lore from the time of Redguard (1998) and Morrowind (2002) shows how brilliant and complex this game will be. They even created a language and alphabet that is actually important to gameplay. Dragon shouts are such a brilliant idea.
From a paper booklet included with Redguard: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Skyrim
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Five_Songs_of_King_Wulfharth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Children_of_the_Sky

SECOND EDIT: From Daggerfall (references dragons talking to humans): http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King_Edward,_Part_XI
Also from Daggerfall: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King_Edward,_Part_XII

That thread with the Todd quote spiraled into madness because of a misunderstanding of a really minor thing.
I feel it's the same here, as many people jumped to the conclusion that it would mean you get gold automatically after battle without looting the corpses. That's definitely not the case as you would still need to loot the enemies for other valuables, it would be pretty pointless...

And now that I think of it, Arena had this too!

As long as gold weights nothing, it was a "chore" looting stuff and having to navigate between the useless stuff and the too heavy to carry anyway stuff to get the items you could always take practically without thinking. Prophets that don't want to take the gold from the people they kill and loot and pillage can go find another game for all I care. There is a limit to how much you can cater to ultra minorities

Even though I feel like speculation on this is a bit pointless, I personally hated picking up gold manually every time. I hope there is an auto pickup feature. And if anyone wants to limit their gold, I'm pretty sure you could drop gold in the previous games (if I remember correctly). But, considering that I don't like forcing people to have to use features they don't want, perhaps it will be an optional feature that you can toggle. That would be easy enough to do.

I think it is a good feature. For the countless times in Morrowind and Oblivion where I opened a container and it had a bunch of calipers and some gold and I had to manually click for each container..... to get only the gold.

im under the impression that it would be a button to auto pick up gold. Im thinking an area of effect with this one. I was mainly thinking about the vial lair and the bucket of gold where it dropped on the floor. it would have been nice to be able to pick up the gold without spending all the time searching through the plants and only finding 10 gold when 50 gold fell to the ground. also as i said, if we are able to drop gold i would like an auto loot option to deal with what happens with dropping gold pieces in the grass. try to find a gold piece in the grass. or try to find anything in the grass. ive lost bodies in the grass in oblivion. an auto loot feature could hopefully deal with this. its either that or make grass and plants destructable so i can pull them out of the ground to be able to find items that are in the grass. Also in skyrim we will have snow. im not sure how good a job they did with snow. if i drop an item on the ground will it be covered with snow so i wont be able to find it again? cant answer that one till we play the game.

hopefully i have explained myself better.

As someone already said it sounds like this is intended to happen when you check a corpse. Also, dozens of RPGs automatically give you money when you defeat foes and that did not make them feel "arcade." In this case, it doesn't even go that far.

An example of why I would hate this concept:

I'm wandering around the wilderness north of Seyda Neen, and happen upon a cave entrance. It's not a mine or Sixth House Base, so know there's bandits inside. Bandits mean opportunities for loot, such as armor, weapons, scrolls, Soul Gems, potions, and gold, and all for probably less effort than it would take to survive going into any number of tombs, Sixth House Bases, or ruins. So I stroll in, carefully and quietly pick off the bandits inside one-by-one, and begin looting the place.

Now, at this point, I'm low level, else I'd be tackling Mamaea or perhaps the Dwemer ruins inside the Ghostfence. I most likely need gold, and don't feel like using the same old tricks to get it (or, better yet, don't know any tricks to begin with), but let's say gold is heavy (due to a mod), and/or I like to role-play. Or I actually don't want to any of the gold, just the equipment, since I know that the stuff I'm going to sell will net me more than enough funds for further adventuring. Or the amount of gold in each container is so minimal that I'm insulted to even touch it.

Whatever my reason, I have the ability to take as little or as much gold from containers as I like, and I also have the responsibility of paying attention enough to how much gold I need/want/see in said container(s)/can carry at one time/etc. If the game transfers anything from a container to my inventory by my mere opening of it, the game designers are essentially telling me that I would've taken it anyway, that I can stand to carry it, that I have any need for it, that I meant to click on that container in the first place (mistakes happen), etc. etc.

The point is, as simple and as small as something like this may seem, that's all it takes to drastically change the gameplay for people. And in games of such supposed freedom, features like auto-taking ANYTHING, or items you aren't allowed to remove from your inventory because if you do you might lose them and thus won't be able to complete a quest that you might not even care about any more, or NPCs that can't be killed for much the same reason, are telling me how to play the game, telling me that I'm not allowed to screw up and have to start over with a previous save, that I'm not allowed to fail.

Such concepts reek of overbearing simplification, of reducing freedom of choice, all in the name of appealing to people that really have no business playing games more advanced than Super Mario Bros. Hell, even that game doesn't make you grab the Invincibility Star when it pops up, the designers expect that to be a basic instinct (or a display of finely-honed skill, depending upon the situation).



It's okay if some RPGs do that, I don't, we shouldn't expect them to all be the same, to have all the same degree of choices, to have all the same features, to all be as unforgiving and challenging.

But that's also what sets games like Morrowind apart from the others. The more that any series so blindly and enthusiastically absorbs the traits of others, the more it becomes like every other title, regardless of still adhering to its inherent genre, regardless of how beneficial those features may seem to the designers, to the consumers, the more and more that series begins to lose it's original identity. It's especially sad to see it happen to one of the greats, to one of the franchises I've come to respect as innovative, as a shining example to the others, and even worse than that when the features/aspects the series is absorbing is making it more and more appealing to people that don't get it, that don't understand what really makes the series great.

They just want to ride dragons, wear skyscraqer pauldrons, and be able to beat the game over a weekend and move on to the next big game everyone's playing. I don't like sharing my backyard with them. Can you really blame me?

...you are seriously saying all because people don't see the need to make up convoluted reasons to leave gold on defeated foes they have "no business" playing the game? Keep it real. Your opinion isn't any more valuable than that of anyone else. You have every right to believe you should be able to leave gold on fallen enemies, but don't fool yourself into thinking yourself somehow better for having an opinion that's different.

Also, you are comparing looting weightless gold to an invincibility star? I mean no offense, but in my opinion you are blowing this way out of proportion. If they can mod weighted gold they can mod in the ability to not pick it up as well.

The one instance I actually agree on is with containers. Who's to say you want to steal the gold if you merely snoop into a container in a house or store for example?

You clearly missed the point. I was talking about the mentality that breeds such stupid ideas, that brings games of depth closer to games without any.



Once again, you miss the point.

I used that comparison because in the context of that game, an Invincibility Star is something useful, like gold. However, it's obviously possible to make it through any Mario game without being invincible all the time, just as it is possible to make it through any TES game without being fabulously wealthy. Or wealthy at all. Not everyone plays the same way, or to the same ability, and they shouldn't be forced to.

The greater the depth of a game, the less the game should tell the player how to conduct themselves.



Wait, do you agree with me or not? Now I'm confused.

http://i.imgur.com/Lz6XP.jpg

Oh wow, did you make that? That is just... wow.

The "Page 1 of 50" in the corner there is an especially nice touch.