I never said you were wrong about the lack of dialog options, those would be welcome but i wonder how much difficulty this would be in implementing them now. But what i did say was the main story itself in NV wasn't as good as FO3 and 4(seeing how the game limited what I would have liked to have happened for choices) and the story ended with benny. That's what I said. Which falls down to personal taste and opinion. Now fallout 1 and 2 i didn't like the gameplay style of it and seeing how graphically it was weaker than Morrowind i couldn't bring myself to play it personally BUT i have watched youtube lets plays of the game and read up lore about them too so I know quite a bit about those two. Sadly those two games will never be remade so my chances of playing them is slim.

I also have no clue what your point is with that kid in the fridge who was turned into a ghoul. It's simply a different story history for a character. NOT every character lore will be tied to Fallout 1 and 2 when they were based in west cost. I thought that sidequest was pretty hilarious myself even the case of some dude wanting to sell him off a hint to fallout 3 slave trade but you can't please everyone. Moral of the story for developers so trying to please everyone is suicide. You create games you like and hope others like it too.

Ghouls have to eat and drink (Case in point the water purifier in Necropolis and the fact that they sell food in Underworld), which means there is no way that little moron could have survived in a fridge for 210 years. That's what I meant by it broke the lore.

It has nothing to with differences in the East and West Coast and everything to do with breaking the continuity and lore of the franchise. That also isn't the first time Bethesda has made a stupid mistake like that.

Compared to other Bethesda RPGs, FO4 is super deep. Wow.

AGREE? Well except for the "If you compare the dialogue and choice in Fallout 4 with literally all of their other games it's pathetic how bad it is" part. When compared with other Beth games only, it is literally a stunning masterpiece of RPGing and choice & consequence.

Fair criticism. World building is not Obsidian's strong point so much as it is Bethesda's. Actual random encounters would have also been nice. Considering everything else Obsidian added to make this both a real Fallout game and a real RPG though, the importance of this is lessened.

Creation is just an updated Gamebryo engine for all practical purposes. I'm sure many people would say that modding is secondary to the core experience of the base game. I won't say that because I don't want to fight a pointless battle with morons, but that might be a thing people say.

As for your second point, well, some people do like the dumbed down story of FO3 & 4 to NV, more power to them. I'm sorry you can't accept the choices in the game that actually make it 10x as layered as FO4 and infinitely superior to the nonsensical drama of FO3. That's your loss.

They did reuse A LOT of assets, like chargen and a few creatures and weapons and some interior modeling like floors walls, tunnels... What you say though is kind of a slap in the face to building an entirely new worldspace and sky, unique locations on the strip & elsewhere, new critters like the cazadores and nightstalkers, a plethora of new clothing, weapons, world items, and aid items, and a lot of new sound FX and textures added to existing assets. Not to mention FNV was just an all around better game than FO3 or the later FO4 because it wasn't at its core a straight up linear action game with little to no depth and it wasn't a retread of something that already existed.

I also never said I didn't believe you about Obsidian. Maybe others did. That is from last year though, Obsidian did just announce Tyranny.

to be fair, obsidian didn't have a lot of time to develop the game but i'm just pointing out the emptiness of the game world, it had good quests, good dlc, decent stories, it had some good things, but for me the map was empty, i played it several times, all the way to the end at the battle of hoover dam, several times, but it just didn't keep me playing like fallout 3 or now fallout 4, i like the exploring, complex locations to sneak around, laying mines, ambushing enemies, Nv just didn't have those type of areas, fallout 4 has TONS of areas that are really good for sneaking around, sniping ememies, laying mines, i take advantage of that, bethesda isn't as good a structuring stories as obsidian, their writing probably is not as good but they're very good at world building, enemies to fight, tactical locations and battlegrounds, and just overall exploring with a lot of things to do.

I have never read that ghouls needed to eat or drink, only that they could if they like. But if you could provide sources on that I'd be interested in reading it.

First off no, it's simply not just an updated gamebryo but does have gamebryo in the engine:

Secondly, yes modding is secondary BUT it's because the gamebryo engine modding is practically insanely easy to do and part of the charm of bethesda titles. This isn't debateable. The thing that is is whether it's right for bethesda to rely on the modders after they're finished with the game to improve the game. That i'd say no it's not right but i'm not the developer and only a fan of the games so my opinion on that is worth less than manure.

Thirdly: i have no idea what you're referencing there with the "choices of the game" bit. I already said 3 times I agreed with Tlord over the fact the lack of dialog options doesn't help the game at all BUT what I said was New Vegas didn't offer the choices I wanted for the Main Questline but rather shoehorn me into following a political war about who takes over this place and this part of the west coast. It's absolutely boring to me. It doesn't hold my interest, even less so than real world politics; why the hell would I want politics in a video game? Don't get me wrong when it's done right it's fine but the whole story was surviving a gunshot wound from Benny and trying to find it only for the story to end after his demise. The first quest where you start off at Doc Mitchells House and leading up to the strip were my only favorite things about the Main Quest afterwards with house, ncr and legion it became boring fast. I don't like any of those factions and yes man was tacked on so we could simply follow benny's plans. I don't know how anyone can praise the MQ in the vanilla state it was crap, worse one of the games, the DLC's were the only thing that saved the game and Honest Hearts gave some much NEEDED backround information on Caesar that expanded on his character, as well as Ulysses in Lonesome Road. Vanilla New Vegas was horrible in my eyes.

And Fourthly: As i provided they reused ALOT of assets and the world of new vegas was not that interesting and only a few historical locations(vegas being one of them) but quite frankly I prefer Boston and Washington because of the lore of those states in american history. Nevada barely has much history that is interesting to me and Mojave had less interesting things to do when exploring outside of getting butt probed by Cazadores, Deathclaws and Giant Radscorpions who can wreck you so bad. If that's what you like far from it from me to take it away. I already played fallout new vegas completely on my youtube lets play. I praised the dlc's being overall better than Fallout 3's but i'm not going to praise the vanilla game. Obsidian's defiance over letting us explore the mojave after beating the MQ really pissed off alot of gamers new and old which also didn't help at all. Most people had to replay the entire game over again just to play the dlc's and that's sad.

I could go on and on and on about things my dislikes about New Vegas BUT i will say I did enjoy the gameplay side in terms of weapons. I literally had a military armory worth of weapons in my Novac hotel room, an entire super market with food as well and tons of gold from my vault heist in Dead Money so I was very well please with that side, but story wise was not that good.

Fallout 4 has it's own faults I'll admit however i did like the basis of the story in fallout 4 and fallout 3. I'm not trying to convince people other wise just stating my own feelings about the game.

This is the Necropolis ending you get in Fallout 1 if you take the water chip without repairing the water pump

"The ghouls of Necropolis learn firsthand the final meaning of dehydration, as their city succumbs to the desert sands and the water runs out. Without their water purifying control chip, they do not survive."

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_endings

Which means that according to the established lore, that kid should have died of dehydration.

That's pretty interesting although maybe they intended it to be retconned for the humor that he was locked in a fridge?

It's most likely an oversight or them not knowing about the lore (It wouldn't be the first time). Though considering their PR (I think) guy's response it may also be that they just flat out don't care. Hell they could have even taken the angle that the kid is a unique ghoul but they didn't even do that. In fact they didn't bother to explain it at all really.

Honestly, considering that multiple games including Fallout 3 either flat out state or allude to the fact that Ghouls need to eat and drink to survive I think it's safe to assume that "Kid in a Fridge" was an oversight and is not canon.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the fact that the all Ghoul settlement In Fallout 4 is growing crops also alludes to the fact that they have to eat. So yeah, it was definitely an oversight by the person who made the quest.

ah well it's likely a random event, on this new save i never encountered the boy and the fridge, so many it's not a big deal but it does seem to be a oversight whether unintentional or not.

I feel like perhaps you are argumenatitve for the sake of it, as most fools on this forum are.

Ghouls do need to eat and drink--that isn't just canon, but common sense. No known organism can subsist off its own meat and gristle for several hundred years. I know some would like to suggest otherwise for sheer spite, but those are people that are commonly referred to as morons.

It is a very ever so slightly updated gamebryo engine.

Modding is in fact "part of the charm" but not "an excuse to be utter dire crap to begin with," so yes! your opinion is worth "less than manure!"

The rest of your post reads like " I am for choice and divergence, but I am too dense to understand it, so screw it.".

Anything remotely complicated has little hope of holding the interest of a fool, thusly you were not interested in New Vegas, whose choices were too political and not fun! It is clear you're just the average Beth gamer who values items and perks solely to solidify your badasssness over actually making choices which affect the entire game world, which is frankly the mindset of the dumbest sort of gamer. If you are not making decisions based on how you want to play out the endgame, whether you choose barbarism or diplomacy, what the hell is the point of even playing? The endgame IS the goal, whether you choose to play as an idiot murderer or a social empath or something in between.

ghouls don't need a purifier, they're immune to rads.

lore breaking 1:1

wow its a whole 10 dollars, thats about how much it costs for lunch if that even, you're complaining about 10 dollars? hahaha

I'll take a game like NV over Fallout 4 any day but that't my personal preference. Running around a map shooting things for no reason isn't really all that fun to me long run. Give actual quest and interesting locations over go to location x and kill everything.

You shoot everything in NV too, ths argument is complete nonsense

You know that someone didn't even play the games (FO1, FO2 or FO3) when something like that is written.

You realize that the kid in the fridge has to be considered as "special" encounter ? Mooo, I say

It's actually not a random encounter.

Or it got retconned, companies retcon stuff in games all the time or the boy was drinking water off of mildew in the fridge or rain-water. Hell, Fallout is filled with retcons by the simple fact of choosing canon endings.

Also holy crap how is this thread not locked

That's why I used quotes and edited it to special encounter later on. Because of the mechanics of a open world game nowadays such things: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_special_encountershave to be implemented differently (even if they are on a fixed location).

But even if I count it as a real quest (and not special encounter) gives FO2 enough examples where Fallout gets a bit whaky. Anyone remember the !!!!real!!! ghosts from FO2?

If I take this strict interpretation of lore as they op does then Dr. Who, talking Brahmin, a guy who refills the nuka cola machines in the wastes on a bycicle and also real ghosts are all canon.

Btw. I like that !!!all!! Fallout games don't take themself so seriously. You need a bit of humor and strange things in the game.

I agree New Vegas does have a lot of combat, but it also has a lot of situations you can talk your way out of through different skill checks and that's something I miss in Fallout 4.

Except..... I haven't even started the DLC content yet. All I did was install it. That was my second mistake. Buying it before the GECK was released was my first. After Skyrim, I should have known better......

Not only was there a lack of enemies to fight (and all laughably underpowered and unleveled), there was a complete lack of random non-hostile NPCs (to be fair FO3 and even Oblivion lacked them).

Bethesda definitely improved upon it with Skyrim, and much much more so in FO4.

So yeah, if you're the "not follow the main story strike out on your own" type of player, FONV is not the game for you.

There's some truth to that statement, considering I obviously chose the talent points myself. And yes, over 50 levels ago when I picked it, I was not thinking in terms of DLC; it hadn't even been announced yet. With all that in mind, I'm stunned there aren't more people posting about this. Hard to believe I'm the only person running with this perk!

Thanks for ths share on ceramics.

Amen, Amen.