If you read the whole post, you'll see that I'm saying that; I posted Beth's impressions, not mines.

Hence the reason I only quoted that. I was adding onto your opinion, not arguing with it.

I'm actually kind of pumped for this. Its a new system I've never really heard of before, which is something I do not have the chance to say very often when it comes to video games. It does svck a little bit that we all kind of start off as a "blank slate", but if you focus on magic it'll rise pretty quickly. I almost wish that there was a childhood segment (or if not childhood, something that happened way before you got into prison) that would help you establish your base statistics, but there is no way to do this and not ruin the RPG element of the game, since you wont be able to create a path that suits everyone, since people come up with such great back stories for their characters. While I have yet to see a game perfectly nail how to handle attributes and such in a game, this one sounds the most interesting and I'm eager to hear more. I'm normally that guy that hates change, but I LOVE this concept, merely because I'll start playing as a warrior, but I'll feel like I cant use magic because I am pigeonholed into the "me smash things" character, and this might make it so its easier to branch out instead of specializing, while still allowing room for people to specialize if they want to

too bad

Tl;dr

My apologies, then.

Grow up

If you think about it, no attributes are not that different from GCD.

In both of them you used the skill and it automatically raised, along with the attribute that helped out with the skill.
The only big difference is with GCD raising a skill/attribute had an effect on other skills...

Why?

Why should you make the big decision at the beginning of the game, when you probably haven't even played the game?

Then don't read it and go to another thread of your liking instead of posting useless stuff like this? :rolleyes:

Because you make a build and stick with it, unless its in your characters 'arc' to change in someway. Sounds to me like people just want to make JOAT characters that do everything in the game, which is basically just playing it like an action game. People always talke about choices making an RPG, well our choosing what kind of build your making is a choice. A birth sign was some huge game breaking feature? No, neither was picking specialties, majors etc.

Whats next? The ability to change your race, or perks on the fly?

If you dont like your build, or your getting tired of it, make another.

I really don't see why people suddenly are so alienated by choosing a class at the beginning of the game? It's always been like this. And you get plenty of descriptions on the classes you can choose from.
If you choose the wrong class, It's not the game's fault. It's yours.

to add on to this, there is no bad class really. The most asinine build can still function in a TES. You get tired or messed up? Make another build, then instead of having one character that does everything, you do everything over several or more characters. Then you have a build for any gameplay style you feel like.

I don't assign a number to my strength, I base it on how much I can carry. So having them in a game is simply arbitrary.

You don't seem to understand this "be who you play" thing Bethesda does...

You create your character DURING THE GAME, not at the beginning. You make choices every level up and even beyond.
There are still limitations, the 50 perks for one, so you cannot do everything with one character.


Ah yes... I'm in the middle of the game, only to realise my current build svcks.

Oh welll, I can start over, losing all the progress and achievement I've made, only to do it again, maybe next time it will be different...

FUN!

I don't get it either. I've spent years here, mostly on the Oblivion forums, and I've never seen anyone complain about being somehow limited by the onerous burden of having to start out with at least some vague notion of what sort of character they intend to play. Hell - this forum sees regular threads for people who are trying to figure out exactly what sort of character they're going to play, and the game won't even be out for another 6 months. Are we to believe that people like planning out those details 6 months before they play the game, but they won't tolerate the imposition of doing it in the first five minutes of actually playing the game?

A somewhat oblique observation - this forum often reminds me of some of the politics forums on which I've spent time.....

Well that's certainly a tenuous assumption, why should the one game be just like another? It's been mentioned that we'll have a perk per level, and we'll start the game as level 1. So that would imply that we'll get 1 perk at start up. As for racial differences, I see no reason why that won't happen. As others have pointed out, the main differences in the races where from their inherent abilities, not the values of the various attributes. Essentially, they started the game with unique perks, so there's no reason why they won't do the same in Skyrim. They can have the exact same abilities that they did in Oblivion for the most part.

How can your current build svck? No build "svcks' in TES. Plus you dont delete it, you make another. Like your character was born in that prison :rolleyes:

Sounds to me like its just to placate newbs that cant make a decision on what kind of build they want.

Sounds to me like its for people that play TES like an action game.

Well first of all, I was responding to your comment about having an Imperial that focused on magic instead of melee. The only difference between them was that one might have the Mage birthsign and the other The Warrior. Both of those are essentially perks, and the two Imperials attributes were completely identical for the most part. And as for the differences in the races, all those things you mention are again essentially perks, so why should they simply carry over to Skyrim? As far as attributes were concerned, there wasn't really all that much difference between the races anyway, so their uniqueness is not going to suffer all that much by no longer having them in the game.

Okay, maybe I was just a bit too affected by my KOTOR experiences, recreating my character 3 times because I couldn't get past the jedi fights...

Yes, every build had a chance in TES games, and nobody complained about it, because it didn't limited you as much as in other class based RPGs. But people here tend to ask for more consequences, so people will complain.

Are you joking? If players felt the need to turn their most used skills into minors simply to avoid leveling, then the system is horribly broken. It's completely counter-intuitive to have to play that way and anyone who didn't think to do that, but simply played one of the default classes, could easily get screwed. Not to mention that it made the starting classes completely pointless since the only way to play the game effectively was for everyone to play a custom one. That's a really, really bad way of designing character creation and development.

Mmm... so you spent 20 gameplay hours raising what? Speechcraft, merchantile and Restoration only? How can you make a build that svcks in a TES game? Doing such a childish things are your problem, not game mechanic; why should we all be punished?

Again, the only real point here seems to be "I wanna do all and play all in a row"; lets just be honest.

It was the scaling that was a problem. That and how difficulty worked. like I said, with a cap and tinkering with the slider, you got a very good balance.

When I first started playing Oblivion, I had never played any TES games and I didn't know what to expect. So when it came time to choose my character, I had to spend alot of time just going over the different classes and races to try and decide how I wanted to play. But since I didn't know anything about the game or how things actually worked, I didn't have alot to go on. So I ended up wasting maybe a couple of hours coming up with an indepth anolysis, when I could have spent that time simply playing the game figuring things out as I went along. All that is gone now, people will be able to jump in right away, and maybe a short while later they'll come to the realization that,"Hey, those Fireballs are kind of cool, I should focus on those." or "I love the way my Hammer bounces off that creature's skull!" So they'll base their character development by actually playing the game rather tying to anolyze a bunch of numbers and statistics during character creation.

We all did when we first got into ES. it chews newbs up and spits them out. That's why its that more rewarding when you come back and take one of its eyes out.

The level scaling wouldn't have been as much of a problem if the character leveling hadn't been so badly broken. I've played alot of RPGs in my time and the Oblivion system was the absolute worst that I have ever come across. Thankfully there were mods that allowed me to bypass that whole mess. Even still, I usually ended up with cookie cutter characters that weren't all that different from each other in the end. It's not all that difficult to max out all your skills and Attributes and end up with some generic character that's just like all the rest. Doing away with attributes and relying on perks instead will do away with all that. People are going to find that each character they play as will end up being uniquely different from each other.



Obviously Todd and team have come to realize that it doesn't have to be that way, and have taken steps to do away with that aspect of the series. It's especially pointless to have all that in a game where you advance by doing, and not by some esoteric character creation system like D&D 3.5. It sounds like the D&D people are taking the same sort approach as Skyrim in fact, with the version 4 rule set.