I'd agree that is the case for most of you. But the fact is, Mariel has been trolling around for some time now. I'm don't know how long it's been since I saw a post from him that didn't reek of bitterness and hatred... and flamebaiting...

Off-topic, but I have to ask...

Why do we call it flame-baiting? I mean, fire is a horrible type of bait....it goes out in the water, if it's not already out by the time you cast the rod, and even if it was still burning underwater i'm sure the fish wouldn't like it.

How about we call it worm-baiting, instead? Worms are a great type of bait to use.



And now for the on-topic part of my post....

I think that the game would have improved a lot if there were at least a few Ayelids around....in the cities, in the wildnerness, whatever....but the fact is, the game makes Ayleids out to be extinct, and they're most certainly not. That, and I really wanted to talk to an Ayleid.

EDIT: And Mankar Camoran and Umbaccano don't count. Though they probably are Ayelids in all actuality, the fact that the game doesn't mention them as such gets on my nerves. I'm referring more to "normal" Ayelids when I say I wanted to talk to one.

@Khajiit_Thief01
Stating there's a lack of Ayleids in all likelihood is incorrect. Ayleids most likely shared the same physical appearance as Altmer, with Ayleid simply being a reference to their culture and empire. In that sense the Ayleid culture and empire are all but dead, held only relevant in faint whispers and memories. Yet the descendants of the Ayleids most likely live simply as Altmer.

There are probably those somewhere out there that still attempt to hold to Ayleid values and consider themselves Ayleids. But that's sort of like how the Nazis moved to Argentina and ended up as oddball hermits who died lonely xenophobic deaths.

I'm well aware that most of them probably live their lives as Altmer. My point is that there would be some of them that retain their culture or at least acknowledge themselves as Ayelids. I mean, it's not like there's a huge racist element in Cyrodill that hates Ayelids. I'm sure there is a small one, but it's not like EVERY Imperial hates Ayelids. So why would they hide their heritage?

Because it's the flame that's being baited, not used as bait. Although one could argue that it's the worms being baited by Mariel's baiting. Although typically brusque, I've not seen him be antagonistic towards anyone who actually applies some critical thinking to their posts or isn't being obnoxiously silly themselves.

The Ayleids did a great deal of things that in a retrospective mindset weren't exactly the most kosher things to do during the reign of their empire. The knowledge you descend from a bloodline doesn't mean you have to be PROUD of that bloodline. It's also more a novelty in the modern Empire's culture. It's a cool fact to have when you try to make a family tree, but otherwise it's just a trivial detail.

I know what the Ayelids did back then was horrible, but that was....what, thousands of years ago, right? And in any event, it's not like every Ayelid was a man-skinning slave-driver, right? I'm sure there were some good, noble Ayelids out there, and i'm sure some of those Ayelids' bloodlines survived to this day....but maybe not. I could be wrong, I admit I don't know much about the Ayelids beyond the brutal stories that were told in MK's texts.



Why Albides....why must you ruin my attempt at humor like that?

Probably not, but like with real-world history concerning slavery, the general opinion of humans was probably that they were merely property that was to be disposed of when it was worn out. When this property is sapient, 'tis only a matter of time before their hate overcomes their fear.

Man, you know why. That joke was worse than Oblivion. Insertsmileyhere.

You're right. It was awful.

I shall hang my head in shame.

I don't have anything against the language of the Ayleids itself, but more against the way it was constructed. It sounds like the product of an enthousiastic fourteen year-old Tolkien really devoted fan who is proud of himself for being able to use a fan dictionary of quenya, but doesn't have the persistence to fully apply proper grammar. Oh, and with the addition of fantasy's most pervasive phoneme: sh.


If you do not go for the "whatever the hell I want it to mean" approach as described by Albides, Ta'Agra is what I would call a nifty language, and I am saying that based on the few scraps of grammar that were conserved.

Didn't one of the Devs have more on Ta'Agra, but lost his notes somewhere? I remember reading that here in the Lore forum a few years back.

Oh, if only those notes had never been lost! Then we'd have a language to talk about! :drool:

I have no problem with simple criticism, but Mariel goes beyond that all the time, he is always bashing Oblivion and Bethesda. You have to wonder why is that kind of person even here on a Bethesda forum?

I am not a fan of the Ayleids, and I think their ruins are too similar to each other...but I'm interested in the language being that it is the only language revealed in the TES games. Dwemer was just a script and so is the Daedric script...so I wonder if this means that more languages will be featured in future games.

Yeah! Let's all go to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FarEast!
And people complained about Cyrodiil being generic?. Just think about what they would to to Akavir.

We learn a quite a few Ta'Agra phrases from http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/ahzirr_trajijazaeri.shtml. And we know a bit of Ehlnofex from the Sermons and other writings. So I wouldn't go as far as to say that Ayleid is the "only language revealed in the TES games."

Yeah, it was AFFA MU who no longer works for Bethesda.


If loving Bethesda and Oblivion were requirements for posting in the lore forum, I don't think a lot of us would be here.

For some reason, I've always thought Ninja Samurai Country would simply be intrinsically more interesting than Nordland.

Probably because Vampire snakes wouldn't make good ninjas, y'know, it'd be interesting to watch.

Damn. When the hell did he stop working for Beth? I thought he was on the Oblivion team. I'm probably wrong, though.

Never mind. Too tired and busy for Internet [censored].



Nah, he probably quit before that.

And I was curious what he had planned for "Soft Doctrines of Magnus Invisible."

TES pilfering languages to use as its own is nothing new - dozens of old Dunmeri names and places are lifted right from Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian, Babylonian and other assorted ancient tongues from that part of the world. And when you look at how the names of most Altmeri and Bosmeri characters imitate the style of Tolkien Elven names (Quenya and Sindarin respectively, which also lines up with Tolkien's High and Wood elves), it's not really surprising that there's a TES elven language that also draws from that source. In fact it could even be argued that it's a step in the direction of consistency.

Still, all the same, it is a bit duff that some of the borrowings were so direct. I reckon the form could have been used without the detail.

If I'm in a positive mood, I look at it as a somewhat liberty-taking homage to Quenya that nevertheless ties in nicely with existing Meri naming conventions. And when in a more cynical mood, an unimaginative and uninteresting bit of generally extraneous detail.