I don't think Daedric princes really have a morality. They're good when they wanna be, and evil when they wanna be.

Well it's not really when they "wanna be", like someone else said they each have a certain sphere they follow and everything they do relates according to that sphere. Whenever they interfer with the lives of mortals, rather appears as something nice or evil, they always do it in the way their sphere represents.

yeah. The wierd thing is, no one daedra Prince is a full personality, when you look at it. Take them all together, and you get one full human mental spectrum. Maybe that, and not some twisted sense of divine boredom, is why they watch humans, why Azura is so petty towards the Tribunal and the Dunmer, why dagon tried to invade tamriel and make it his own.

They are jealous.

But I wonder if that is truly so. What we know about the Daedric Princes is from the limited perspective of mortals. Perhaps there is more to the Princes, but they haven't been explored fully within the game. Lesser daedra have allegiances to various Princes, but there isn't much info about the culture of these daedra, their political systems, motives, etc when they are not on Nirn. Do they live in buildings? They seem to have ranks (Dremora, at least) in their military. What do Daedric Princes even do when they aren't paying attention to Nirn?

Good point, and I'd also like to know more about their relationships with each other - what does Azura think of Mehrunes Dagon, for example? If she really does care for her followers in Morrowind (and other places), I can't imagine she was very happy when Dagon turned half of Tamriel into a burning wasteland. I believe they sometimes form alliances, or engage in rivalries, but how stable are these? Do they ever fight amongst themselves (directly, rather than through their mortal followers), and if not, why not? Do they ever get together for conferences where they decide on their next strategy for screwing over the mortal world?

well they do seem to work together somewhat. they all allied against Jyg/sheo (i find that so confusing but than again i guess so does everyone since from what i have seen they gave up trying to figure it out)

I've read that some Princes get along and some don't, it's by the way their sphere's parallel each other. For instance Azura and Nocturnal don't get along, probably because Azura represents a more show-offy beauty while Nocturnal is a more secretive beauty. Plus Azura represents light, while Nocturnal represents darkness.

Oh, and did I mention Azura and Nocturnal are sisters?

Well, the thing about Dremora is that they may be loyal to Dagon now, but like they said, "it was not always so." I think lesser Daedra, particularly the higher forms like Dremora, Golden Saints, Daedric Seducers, etc. are essentially like immortal humans, a full range of personalities available to them. However, while there is obviously more to the Daedra than we as players or mortals as mortals could know, if they are a mythic embodiment of something one would logically assume that they are near-constantly in a mindset related to it. Obviously, if a Daedroth is banished it gets a somewhat different personality when it returns (Dagon between Battlespire and Oblivion), but still simmilar enough to be recognizable as that primal idea. So I just put two and two together, and as far as that anology can go, I got the four of a Daedroth Prince being a fragmentary personality, one piece of the enourmous spectrum available and possible to Mortals.

:huh: What? Where did you get the idea about Azura and Nocturnal being sisters and not getting along?



-http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/

According to Dyus and Haskill's interview, they have their own complex universe and their existence involves all the same cosmic politics and interactions as puny Mundus. Mortals don't mean anything to them and are not important. I have my own beef with this, though.

I got it from this book.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Invocation_of_Azura

"I turned instead to her sister, Azura."

Also I've read that in Daggerfall her enemy is Nocturnal and her Ally is Molag Bal. Look it up and read for yourself.

I'm inclined to think that it wasn't literal, but figurative, as both Daedric Princes share a common association with night/shadow.

Besides, if the two are literally sisters, that would imply they had parents. Which Daedric Princes don't seem to have, at least, not in the normal sense of "parent." Given that the 'sister' reference doesn't appear in most of the other literature, I'm betting this was an artistic/figurative association on the part of the High Priestess (the 'author' of this particular text).

I could be mistaken. :shrug:

Well the thing about Gods (real-world Gods), is a lot of them can be "sibilings", but aren't born the way mortals are. Take Aphrodite for example, she was born from sea foam, and Athena was born when one of Zues's wives struck him in the head with a blade. Also just think of the way Azura and Nocturnal look, both are potrayed as beautiful women with arms outstretched holding stuff (Azura holds a moon and star, Nocturnal holds two crows). Even if they may not be "sibilings" the way mortals have sibilings, they're still closely related, but what they represent in their spheres is opposing and that's why they are enemies.

:huh: Their spheres aren't opposing. Different, complementary, overlapping - but not opposing. And I doubt it is the sphere that dictates whether or not they are allies or enemies but, rather, the Daedric Prince's own motivations and agendas that may have nothing to do with their spheres.

Oh really? Azura is known for teaching secrets to people like she taught the Chimer how to be different from the Altmer. Nocturnal however keeps secrets to herself and doesn't really let people know about anything. Azura is the teller of secrets, and Nocturnal is the keeper of secrets. Also their Spheres are like opposites; Azura's sphere is twilight which is light, while Nocturnal's sphere is night which is darkness. Also remember that the motives of each Daedric Prince are governed by the spheres they represent. The Spheres control the Daedric Princes more then the Daedric Princes control the spheres.

Azura and Nocturnal don't oppose each other as in one being good and the other being evil, but they're still enemies because hell, even the elements they represent are opposite (light and darkness).

You can argue with me that Azura and Nocturnal aren't enemies all you want, but I know what I've read about Daggerfall. If you can show me proof that you know they're not enemies then I'll happily wear the fool's hat. 3:)

You know what twilight is, right? It's the transitional period between day and night. That should be clear enough.

Oh really? I never would have known. >_>

It's still a type of light, but it's not the kind of light you see during the day that makes everything clear. However light of any kind is still the opposite of darkness.

Well, saying that Azura represents light as opposed to Nocturnal's darkness is sort of silly. They are both daedra, and it would be very strange if they fit such a simple, meaningless ying-yang.

......Whatever, they're still enemies according to Daggerfall. :rolleyes:

I never understood the silly 'enemies' thing from Daggerfall. Learning who doesn't like Ebonarm reminded me of Age of Empires. 'Pikeman beat cavalry who beat archers who beat pikemen.'

Azura is one of the Princes that has no clear sphere to mortals. The Census of Daedra Lords refuses to even guess at it. Her sphere is what she is known for to mortals, like your OP says.

Well I'm starting to think maybe Azura is like a succubus and steals the souls of mortals through her tempting beauty and kindness. What she actually does with the souls is a mystery. They could be living the good life in her realm of Moonshadow where cities are made of silver and beauty is everywhere, or she could be using their souls for more darker reasons. But I think she has a different way of "stealing souls" then Molag Bal does.

Edit: Hey you know what's ironic about my statement? Her Winged Twilight are slightly similar to Succubi in appearance, concidence? :shifty:

Urgh. If you are going to try the opposition thing, at least include Meridia. Though I think works better if you compare the three of them with 80ties music. With Meridia and Nocturnal as your favourite female Rock and Gothic artists and Azura as (Prima-) Madonna because she'll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg2ZBzJbM0Meverything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBThDoUCnQ.

Yeah OK, now back to my comparison of Azura being similar to a Succubus (without the bat wings). Anyone agree that Azura is slightly similar to a Succubus in the way that she brings mortals into her grasp with her seductive beauty and kindness?

The problem is that you are trying to stereotype Azura into a rather large and varied class of beings. If you reason long enough you'll be bound to make either one match the other but then you miss the point because you'll learn nothing more about either Azura or succubuci.

So rather look at Azura alone like you did in your first post. You already figured it out that appearances are deceiving and from the arguments you brought up there wouldn't you say that she actually wants to be loved but it is very emotional and insecure about it? She's more like a high school drama queen then an evil temptress that tries to lead Good and Honest Man™ astray.


Also: Mehrunes Dagon seduced and now employs Dark Seducers, he must be such a Casanova!

Um. No.

Matthews, Caitlin & John. The Element Encyclopedia of Magical Creatures. Harper Element and Barnes&Noble, 2008. ISBN 978-1-4351-1086-1

Besides, I'm really not getting a sixual-predator vibe from Azura.