Azura: Really the only "Nice" Daedric Prince, or is there so : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:42 pm

Guh, I'm not talking about Azura being sixual. -_- I'm speaking in the terms of how Succubi seduce mortals in order to steal their souls. God, why do some of you people have to be so technical? It should have been pretty obvious what I meant. :banghead:

What I'm trying to explain is that I think Azura seduces (not sixually) mortals with her beauty and kindness in order to take their souls into her realm. I never said she sleeps with them in their dreams and causes wet dreams.

And like I said, what Azura does with the souls may not be an evil demonic soul-devouring thing, she may make them happy. But I still think she tries to take souls like Molag Bal.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:40 am

Guh, I'm not talking about Azura being sixual. -_- I'm speaking in the terms of how Succubi seduce mortals in order to steal their souls. God, why do some of you people have to be so technical? It should have been pretty obvious what I meant. :banghead:

What I'm trying to explain is that I think Azura seduces (not sixually) mortals with her beauty and kindness in order to take their souls into her realm. I never said she sleeps with them in their dreams and causes wet dreams.

But succubi don't steal souls. :confused: You are using the wrong terminology. It's like talking about an airplane but describing it as a bicycle.

Besides, there is no reason why Azura would want to hoard souls.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:23 am

Well from what I've read Succubi DO steal souls, maybe different sources say different things about them, but from what I've read about them it specifically states that they steal souls from men.

And asking "Why would Azura steal souls?" is like asking why does Molag Bal steal souls. That's just what some Daedric Princes do.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:58 am

What is the Dunmer view of death, anyway? They style themselves as descendants of the Daedra, but they don't seem to pledge their souls to the Daedra.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:20 am

Yeah OK, now back to my comparison of Azura being similar to a Succubus...

Yawnsville

Azura's sphere is twilight which is light

Not really, no:

.seloH lla fo miR eht ARUZA oT

She is the infinite border within the twilight.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:02 pm

Yes, they both seduce people in a way to their own ends. So do Demi More, Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, Giacomo Casanova and Roger Moore. We're not being technical, you are generalizing to the point where it doesn't matter any more what exactly anybody does.

This, generally speaking of course, is pointless.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:27 am

Some clarification, Azura may be twilight, you got your terminology mixed. Go out in the middle of the afternoon on a summer day. You will notice, it is very bright at those times, lots of light, you may need some sunglasses or a hat, it is the middle of the day (ignore bad weather). Now, go outside at 6am/pm, you will see it is light out, but also still dark. Sometimes, you can see both the moon and the sun. This time is known as the twilight hours. Now, go outside when it's midnight. Quite dark, since it is night time. Now, if you want to make a time correlation with daedra, it really should be:
Meridia = noon
Azura = 6am/pm
Nocturnal = midnight.

Twilight is not light, it's the middle zone between day and night; a time when the days change. The whole sister thing, don't read too much into it. Plus, Azura does not seem to hold any grudge that we know of with Nocturnal, other than that it is said that they don't like each other in Daggerfall (which I find silly)

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:50 pm

What is the Dunmer view of death, anyway? They style themselves as descendants of the Daedra, but they don't seem to pledge their souls to the Daedra.

They don't need to. The Dunmer believe they reside in Oblivion and don't view a distinction between the mortal world and Oblivion to be important.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:44 am

Fine, I'm wrong, I can admit that. I'll just ignore this topic since it's in am embaressment to my lack of knowledge of Azura and Daedric Princes. I probably should have never even started this topic.... :nope:

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:40 am

Cut the drama. You had it just about right in the first post.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:27 am

Yeah, but I'm wrong about everything else and I feel embaressed. Maybe I was being dramatic in that last post, but I just don't know what else to say. It seems like every other theory I come up with about Azura is wrong because I've missed something, and my sources obviously aren't reliable.

So I really have no other use for this topic, I've humilated myself enough by not understanding what twilight is. I just need to play more Oblivion and Morrowind to get a better understanding of the game's lore.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:41 am

Yeah, but I'm wrong about everything else and I feel embaressed. Maybe I was being dramatic in that last post, but I just don't know what else to say. It seems like every other theory I come up with about Azura is wrong because I've missed something, and my sources obviously aren't reliable.

Hey, don't be too hard on yourself. I'm just a nut for mythological creatures (and their original descriptions in myth as opposed to their mutated descriptions in DnD and various other modern fantasy (mis)interpretations). :nerd: We all have to learn, and the place to start is asking questions. Maybe there was some mis-communication, but don't take it badly.

So I really have no other use for this topic, I've humilated myself enough by not understanding what twilight is. I just need to play more Oblivion and Morrowind to get a better understanding of the game's lore.

The lore is very complicated, and I wouldn't dare to say I know/understand even half of it. I find many of the lore threads in the forum fascinating, and I've learned a lot from listening/reading, and posting my own questions. Azura is a very complicated Daedric Prince - especially since there is a lot of literature about her, including the Trial of Vivec and Azura and the Box, among others. At first glance, she seems very benevolent, but some of her actions belie this benign face. We had a nice thread on the forums all about Azura http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=865015&hl=, it is a really good read.

Welcome to the the Lore forums, please do stay around! The Lore Masters don't bite, but some of their discussions are really intense (and funny!).

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:57 am

Azura, nice? What about http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/summon.cgi?daedra=azu if she's nice?

"You dare summon forth Azura of the Crimson Gate, pleading for power? I don't know if you are worthy of such favor. In fact, I doubt it very much."

Mmh, a bit [she-dog]y, wouldn't you say?

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:21 pm

Azura, nice? What about http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/summon.cgi?daedra=azu if she's nice?

"You dare summon forth Azura of the Crimson Gate, pleading for power? I don't know if you are worthy of such favor. In fact, I doubt it very much."

Mmh, a bit [she-dog]y, wouldn't you say?

Hey, I'd totally do that if I was a being of great power. B)

Nothing like a good old scare to put those silly Nirnites in their place.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:45 am

I think Azzura is one of the only netral deadra lords.

Also azzura is a derdaric prinecess not a prince

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:33 pm

I think Azzura is one of the only netral deadra lords.

Also azzura is a derdaric prinecess not a prince

That's the whole discussion of the thread, exploring Azura's nature with a princess complex.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:01 pm

I think Azzura is one of the only netral deadra lords.

Also azzura is a derdaric prinecess not a prince

Even "female" daedra are known as princes.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:33 pm

Azura, nice? What about http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/summon.cgi?daedra=azu if she's nice?

I never noticed Azura has big areolas until now.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:19 am

I'm really fascinated by the Daedric Princes in the Elder Scrolls games. I've never seen them as evil like the worshippers of the Nine Divines do, in fact they really remind me of the Gods and Goddesses in Greek Mythology, because of the fact that they have more human-like faults then other Gods and they really don't give a care about mortals, but usually cause chaos for them.

Anyways I'm really fascinated about Azura; the Daedric Prince of Twilight. So many books seem to label her as the only "Good" Daedric Prince, and even the followers of the Nine Divines seem to think of her more highly then the other Daedric Princes. But I find that there's more to her then meets the eye. When you first meet Azura you see this kind, beautiful, motherly Goddess who cares deeply for her worshippers and wishes the best for them. But Azura is known to have a fiery temper and is not one to anger. For instance I read (but have not played Daggerfall) that she actually asks the Hero to murder a healer just because they were talking bad about her. And in a book I read titled "Azura and the Box", she punished a mage with death who managed to decieve her with a flower hidden in a box. Mommy Dearest much?

But anyways another thing about Azura is her Plane of Oblivion. In Moonshadow it is stunningly beautiful, but all mortals who enter it become half-blind. Maybe this symbolizes Azura? Like the people who worship her are also blinded by her beauty and cannot see her true motives. Plus she rules over twilight, which tends to kind of hide things in darkness against the light from the setting or rising sun.

I think there might be something a little shadey about Azura and it makes you wonder, does she truely care about her followers? Because it seems to be that she treats them like pets, and puts them down when she grows tired of them.

Wow. Pretty impressive for being relatively new.

But something you should remember is that when dealing with the Daedra, there is no real concept of right and wrong (morality), due to the fact that every Daedric Prince is an extension of their sphere. They exist because they are physical (or meta-physical) manifestations of change. Therefore, they cannot be good or evil, as change has no moral aspect to it.

» Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:48 pm

OK, I'm back. Sorry I got a little nuts. I was just having a moody day and now I feel silly about it. :frog:

Anyways yeah I understand none of the Daedric Princess are truely good or evil, but some appear more good and more evil then others, but only in the way mortals view as right and wrong. But you know, even the Nine aren't like humans, and that's part of being a God. The main difference between the Nine and Daedra is that the Nine seem to serve the mortals, while the mortals (that worship the Daedric Princes) seem to serve the Daedra. The Nine generally do look after the needs of mortals, while the Daedric Princes only look after themselves. However some Daedric Princes do seem to help their followers like Azura giving her followers her kindness and Malacth trying to make things fair for Orcs and Ogers. However in the end they're just doing it to get what they want in the end. Now that I think about it I don't think Azura's way of seducing followers with her kindness is used in a malevolent way like I thought before, but I do think she's after her own self interests more then hers. Like those people who do charity more for the good attention they get from people then for actually helping the needy.